Cycling Law Advice

hewes

I was wondering if anyone might have some advice for me on this issue.

I'm being taken to court for cycling on the pavement, which I know has long been a contencious issue for cyclists. However the pavement which I was on is a council installed cycle park area (the metal loops in the ground, with a cycle park sign), and I was cycling between that and the nearest part of the road with a sloped access (no more than 20m).

Could anyone suggest anything to me, as the only solicitor whom I have been able to ask anything off just said "it's a pavement" without sounding too sure nor looking anything up. He as much admitted he wasn't clear on this area, but nor was anyone else I was able to approach.

Anonymous

It may well be a pavement however the very fact that people aren't sure means that you may well have a good case at court.
Take photographs and/or a video of the area to present when you appear.

cjcp

spen666 may be along. However, can you post some pictures?

s-worksenduro

Well if cars are "legally allowed" to drive on the pavement with a dropped kerb then why shouldn't a cyclist?
What evidence do they have? How busy was it at the time? Who was it that caught you? ie Police/traffic warden/council? I assume you are pleading not guilty as it is going to court.

cougie

Join the CTC ? They are the experts surely.

Jay dubbleU

Contact your local council and find out if it is adopted highway and if there is a Traffic Restriction Order in place - if it is then what you did is illegal - if not then it cannot be enforced

nwallace

s-worksenduro wrote:

Well if cars are "legally allowed" to drive on the pavement with a dropped kerb then why shouldn't a cyclist?

To cross the pavement with a road vehicle it must be to access property (and the kerb must be dropped to allow it).

Other uses for dropped kerbs is at junctions to allow wheelchair and pavement legal mobility scooters to cross the road.

You've crossed the pavement either to gain access to the parking area or the road.

To access you should have pulled up dismounted and pushed.
To leave you should have pushed to the road side and mounted appropriately at the side of the road.

There are similar set ups for motorcycles and you absolutely must push the bike to them.

Don't know how far you travelled on the pavement but it seems harsh.

hewes

I'll go back and get some more photos, but in the mean time, the location of the "offence" is (according to google maps)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... _w&split=0

the position I marked is where the cycle park is (even if you can't see it), and I was about 10m North of that.

PS it was a Police officer, it was at night, hardly anyone around and I had lights on my bike and had a high vis jacket on.

downfader

hewes wrote:

I was wondering if anyone might have some advice for me on this issue.

I'm being taken to court for cycling on the pavement, which I know has long been a contencious issue for cyclists. However the pavement which I was on is a council installed cycle park area (the metal loops in the ground, with a cycle park sign), and I was cycling between that and the nearest part of the road with a sloped access (no more than 20m).

Could anyone suggest anything to me, as the only solicitor whom I have been able to ask anything off just said "it's a pavement" without sounding too sure nor looking anything up. He as much admitted he wasn't clear on this area, but nor was anyone else I was able to approach.

From what you have described it does sound as if you have technically cycled on the pavement. If there were no blue cycle signs with the white cycle then riding isnt allowed. :?

You may be able to look into the area in question another way (a very, very long shot). If it is classed as a bridleway (as some high streets still are) then you may be able to get away with it. But you'd need a dedicated solicitor for that I'd imagine. Russel Jones and Walker deal with injury claims for the CTC, perhaps you could call them?

Though it does still sound to me as if you were technically in the wrong here.

dilemna

First off you would have thought that the boys in yellow would have more pressing matters to deal with :roll: . It would be handy if you could provide more info on the location you refer to, pics ideally, of the parking area any signs posted at the location of the bike park or nearby and markings on the pavement or adjacent road. Have you received a summons yet? If not then have you received any written notification such as correspondence from your local council or police force? If so who has summonsed you? The summons should provide the date and time of any hearing and the relevant legislation you have contravened. It will also give your options obviously to accept or dispute/defend the action. Either way it will give you the next options and any fine payable. I would have thought fine would be the only penalty. There will always be a cheaper option if you accept it early on and pay the fine. If you do dispute and go to court and lose you will be liable for the fine, possibly increased, and also costs although these wouldn't be high I would have thought £80.

The police/cps generally have 3 months to decide whether to take any action. If as is my belief the copper was just trying to sh1t you up then he has achieved his aim. Did he give you a fixed penalty notice? I'm pretty sure this is how cycling on the pavement is dealt with meaning a £30 fine or similar. On the fixed penalty notice should be given the relevant legislation he believes you have contravened and the fine if you accept and methods of payment. If it is the council I believe although not certain it may be a civil matter under local by laws although don't rely on this. Given it was a copper that stopped you it’s not going to be the council summonsing you. In all honesty were you cycling on the pavement? Bear in mind there might be CCTV. If so pay up and move on. Don't do it again.

The CAB maybe able to help or you might have free legal advice with a financial product you have such as a bank account. Do not tell your car insurer if you have free legal protection with them as people have found their premiums shooting up having sought what they thought was free legal advice not realising that their insurer would use it against them to increase their premium even though they never made a claim. Try a few more high street solicitors. Under the access to justice for all some solicitors still offer a 30 min free legal advice. I would have thought 30 mins was more than enough for a good local solicitor to advise you fully. Infact 10 mins on the phone. I would have thought the costs for them to act for you would be prohibitive compared to the amount of the penalty you may incur. You are hardly going to lose your driving license that you need for work. BTW they cannot put points on your license. Good luck and post some pics.

Mithras

Probably the best bit is the point I have highlighted in bold from the letter by Paul Boteang and John Crozier..

This is the first bit.

The object of Section 72 Highways Act 1835 was intended not to protect all footpaths, but only footpaths or causeways by the side of a road, and that this is still the case has been ruled in the high court. The legislation makes no exceptions for small wheeled or children's cycles, so even a child riding on a footway is breaking the law. However, if they are under the age of criminal responsibility they cannot, of course, face prosecution.

The next part that clears this up is:

And this is the important bit:

On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:
"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."


Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens.
(Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)
"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.
I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16.

Stuey01

There is a difference between a child cycling on the pavement out of fear of traffic and cycling on the pavement to the road because you were too lazy to walk a few metres.

To the OP, you did wrong, you got caught. You know it, we know it. Stop trying to weasel your way out of it, pay up and move on.

always_tyred

Stuey01 wrote:

There is a difference between a child cycling on the pavement out of fear of traffic and cycling on the pavement to the road because you were too lazy to walk a few metres.

To the OP, you did wrong, you got caught. You know it, we know it. Stop trying to weasel your way out of it, pay up and move on.

Can you tell me where you bought your psychic cycling shorts?

The thread is about where to get decent advice, not "please give me your unqualified arbitrary opinions based on an imagination of the facts".

OP - go to the CTC, or pick up the phone to Russel Jones Walker solicitors. Whatever the right or wrong, the situation may not be clear cut and you may have options.

Stuey01

Well I traded an old cow for some beans on the way to market.
My mum had a right old strop and threw the beans out of the window. in the monring, lo and behold a beanstalk had appeared. I climbed this and found a sleeping giant in his house, airing on the radiator in his kitchen I spotted some tie dyed cycling shorts and had 'em away on my toes.

They're a bit loose for lycra shorts, but they do seem to be giving me remarkable insight into stories on the internet.

And yes, I know stealing is wrong but, crucially, I didn't get caught.

biondino

Is OP being taken to court because he refused to pay a £30 fine? That seems foolish, especially if what he did was clearly technically wrong (regardless of the fact it was only a few yards). If he's being taken to court and wasn't offered a £30 fine, that seems overkill and I would have thought he'd be able to use Mithras's argument to get off the charge.

dilemna

Well looking at Mithras' post it would appear that you might on the face of it be able to convince a court that the officer who awarded you the FPN/reported you for riding on the pavement was being over zealous and was not reasonable or proportionate in exercising their discretion. If you say it was late there was no one around, you were wearing high viz and crucially had lights, you have hardly been a danger to anyone not unless you nearly ran the copper over :oops:.

Eat My Dust

Did you call the police officer a jobsworth c*nt. If not, you should have done!

daniel_owen_uk

Did you tell him to "catch a proper criminal" or that "I pay your wages"? They love those two

Seriously thought surely this isn't going to be a monsterous court case, take the fine and move on, will probably cost you more going to court.

Going from the google maps link (I don't have psycic lyrcas), it looks like there is a bus stop just near to where you were, meaning that there will obviously be pedestrians (even if not at that time of night). That would suggest you should be walking and not riding.

downfader

Eat My Dust wrote:

Did you call the police officer a jobsworth c*nt. If not, you should have done!

When I was a kid (and I'm talking about I think) I was riding into work and used to walk across the high street to catch my breath. This one particular morning there was virtually no traffic on the roads, it was about 7am and dead quiet. So I saw a drop kerb about 10 foot away leading to the road on the otherside and thought I'd scoot on one pedal left foot on right pedal.

The very next thing that happened was a WPC jumped out from an alleyway and began screaming at me to "Get off that bl**dy bike!!!" I very politely, and stupidly/niavely, tried to just say that I was just scooting the last few feet and that there was nobody about and was promptly asked if I wanted to "argue down the station".

I just put my hands up, apologised, got off walked the remaining 2 foot to the road, put the bike in the road and mounted and rode off.

Perhaps some coppers need to take that kind of attitude with the little numpties that weave in and out of people at peak times.

hewes

I actually wrote this after the event, since my solicitor was completely useless.

To the "pay the fine and move on" people, just to let you know this actually cost me my job, I was just wondering for personal information if there was anything else I could have done.

C'est la vie

alfablue

hewes wrote:

I actually wrote this after the event, since my solicitor was completely useless.

To the "pay the fine and move on" people, just to let you know this actually cost me my job, I was just wondering for personal information if there was anything else I could have done.

C'est la vie

How did it cost you your job??? (It may be that losing your job was unjust).

davmaggs

If it's not too personal I'd like to ask why it cost you your job?

It's a civil matter so nothing that a CRB check would need to worry about, so I'm a bit concerned that a simple fine could escalate into such an outcome.

dilemna

Perhaps if you give us the full picture we could offer more advice. How cycling on the pavement can then lead to you losing your job is impossible to understand unless you give us more info. :roll:

always_tyred

I sense a refusal to pay, ommission to appeal, summons for non payment, non attendance? / self representation?, county court judgement type story is about to be forthcoming. Plenty of jobs you could lose for any county court judgement against you.

biondino

hewes wrote:

I actually wrote this after the event, since my solicitor was completely useless.

To the "pay the fine and move on" people, just to let you know this actually cost me my job, I was just wondering for personal information if there was anything else I could have done.

C'est la vie

Ultimately, though, "pay the fine and move on" IS the right course of action when you're caught bang to rights doing something illegal! Sorry you lost your job (I echo the "how the hell?" sentiment - are you a cycling proficiency instructor by career?) but, you know, don't ride on the pavement.

Stuey01

It sucks that you lost your job.

You aren't giving the full story here. Would you have lost your job if you had paid the fine and moved on?

Anonymous

Must be president of the Tufty Club or The Green Cross Code man or something!

Sounds harsh on the face of it, I'm intrigued...

hewes

No, I paid my fine and moved on, unfortunately I was 1 month away from joining a Police force, and they rescinded the job as this was a stain on my character.

Sucks to be me I guess.

2 years and I can apply again.....

Anonymous

Doh!

dilemna

Hang on a mo. Are you saying that no police officers can have any fines, points eg speeding, parking tickets or motoring convictions? If so then 80% of the plods would have to resign immediately. So a copper is off duty driving in their own car and gets flashed by a camera for doing 5mph over the limit. He pays up and has 3 points added to his license. Are you saying that because of this he loses his job? I still don't buy your story. Cycling on the pavement is an FPN offence and as irksome as it is, it is still pretty minor offence on the scale of life's misdemeanours. I could understand if you were to be assigned to the cycle training unit. If you had admitted it straightaway apologised profusely then the only thing I think you would suffer would be embarrassment. You might still have been accepted. Did you argue with the officer who issued it to you? There must be something else.

So you obviously disputed the FPN which was issued to you by a future colleague. You also blamed your solicitor as being useless. So that would not have left a good impression. Surely it would have been a lot better to have brought your future employer's attention to the FPN. Surely their HR dept could have advised you accordingly on their policy and what the consequences were depending on your course of action. If you admitted the contravention at the first possible instance and were suitably contrite I can’t imagined that it would have disadvantaged you. You might have been placed under additional scrutiny during the training or had you probation extended. TBH I do not think this would have excluded you from entry into the police force. If you were an able candidate I think they would have looked at it over all. However the fact that you then chose to dispute it, and lost, may have influenced the police force's assessment as to whether you were suitable to become a police officer. It certainly would not have done you any favours or made you any friends in the organisation you were about to join. It would also have been embarrassing for the force you were joining to have to bring an action against a potential new recruit to enforce the FPN. I should imagine the hearing was public? I think this is more the reason for you not getting in. Maybe you felt the FPN was unjustifiably given. Maybe it was and you were placed in a very difficult position. But in the round deciding to accept it, paying up being suitably contrite might have been the better course of action. You could then have used it as a positive and still potentially have been joining them. Everyone makes mistakes. If you were advised disputing the FPN was the best course of action I think you were advised very poorly. But you still haven't given the full story how you came to receive the FPN in the first place and what took place when the officer issued you the notice. If you came across as aggressive the officer would have noted this and this would have been revealed in the hearing. A major part of being a police officer is dealing with and managing conflict, to see the point of view of others and treat them with respect (supposedly ). The fact that you may have entered into an argument with an officer over the issuing of the FPN knowing you were shortly to join the police was not the best judgement on your part. Oh well. You are where you are. Were you cycling on the pavement? Well the fact the FPN was enforced in court indicates you were. You'll just have to try again in 2 years if you still feel it is the career for you. A tough lesson though. Costly as well I should imagine.

Anonymous

Hmmm, I agree, a non endorsable FPN for a cycling offence would very unlikely have an impact on an application to the Police taken on it's own...

Must be more to it!...

Edit - Just looked at one force's website and it says no fixed penalties...

Blimey!