Death @ G20 Protest: In Future PC Unidentifiable?

spen666
spen666 Posts: 17,709
edited April 2009 in Commuting chat
Just a thought that no one seems to have mentioned .

The police officer who pushed Ian Tomlinson to the ground after earlier hitting him with a truncheon was identified AFTER footage taken by a member of the public was played on TV and on internet.

Initially the police were issuing statements implying they had nothing to do with Mr Tomlinson before he collapsed.

Now just cast your mind back a few weeks when the debate was around Lsabour's intentions to re introduce legislation making it an offence to film police officers where footage may be of use to terrorists.

Can you imagine the police won't abuse such a power to prevent people taking footage of them at events such as this or say football matches etc.

Great way to prevent evidence of police brutality coming to light. Remember in the Tomlinson case, the officer only identified himself to his superiors AFTER the footage was released to the media.


NB I am not suggesting the officer's actions were illegal or caused the death of Mr Tomlinson - that is another debate
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Comments

  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    You thought about this whilst commuting right?
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    itboffin wrote:
    You thought about this whilst commuting right?

    Absolutely


    I'd post it in soapbox, but it no longer exists
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    spen666 wrote:
    itboffin wrote:
    You thought about this whilst commuting right?

    Absolutely


    I'd post it in soapbox, but it no longer exists
    Why is that, I wonder?
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    It's censorship, the MAN doesn't want the PEOPLE to unite against the common enemy... :shock:

    God I hate hippies :wink:
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Rich158
    Rich158 Posts: 2,348
    It's alll about the politicians trying to convert this country into a quasi police state where nobody can question the actions of those in authority :shock:

    Power to the people dudes, the politicians are there to pass laws to help and protect the public, not protect the illegal actions of state controlled agencies. So long as have the ability to hold them to account we have the power. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
    pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................

    Revised FCN - 2
  • dirk_van_gently
    dirk_van_gently Posts: 826
    A Police state looms.
    If you see the candle as flame, the meal is already cooked.
    Photography, Google Earth, Route 30
  • ellieb
    ellieb Posts: 436
    & while we are at it: What legitimate justification have the police got for wearing balaclavas on these sort of occasions?
  • dirk_van_gently
    dirk_van_gently Posts: 826
    ellieb wrote:
    & while we are at it: What legitimate justification have the police got for wearing balaclavas on these sort of occasions?

    It was cold?
    If you see the candle as flame, the meal is already cooked.
    Photography, Google Earth, Route 30
  • Rich158
    Rich158 Posts: 2,348
    Anarchy dudes, that's the answer
    pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................

    Revised FCN - 2
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Wearing of balaclavas is in case of petrol bombs/broken glass.
  • doog442
    doog442 Posts: 370
    what he says...fire resistant...outrageous isnt it... i will tell you what the helmets for if you ask nicely :?
  • Dizzy the Egg
    Dizzy the Egg Posts: 153
    Being a police officer is one of the few jobs where they can be found not guilty in a court of law, yet still be done under misconduct at work and sacked after being classed as legally innocent.

    It is also one of the few jobs where virtually any complaint from even the most ludicrous, far fetched realms of reality can result in a full investigation against a cop, which could hang over them for months.

    Feel free to join a politics board and tar all police with the same brush you clown but I thought the purpose of this board was for bike related debates.
  • swagman
    swagman Posts: 115
    Rubber truncheons, read George Orwell, dont live in fear.
    Its coming.
  • antfly
    antfly Posts: 3,276
    I`ve read him and it isn`t.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • gene_poole
    gene_poole Posts: 20
    Rich158 wrote:
    Anarchy dudes, that's the answer

    Really? So you won't mind if I come round and nick your bike then.
  • symo
    symo Posts: 1,743
    Hmmmm I wondered why they switched the CCTV off. Lets see, under Nu Labor we have lost the right to protest unless the police agree it, we can't film the police doing anything even if it is illegal, people can now be held without charge for significant periods.

    I joined Liberty on Monday and I am a true blue conservative.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    we are the proud, the few, Descendents.

    Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Well done Symo. A life changing event ;)
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    Nothing to see here, move along....!
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    itboffin wrote:
    Nothing to see here, move along....!
    nothing_to_see_here.jpg
  • gene_poole
    gene_poole Posts: 20
    Police State? Don't make me laugh.

    What about the IPCC?

    That copper is on his own and looking at losing his job minimum.

    He went against his training, and his Force policy.

    Mind you it easy for us to judge, we weren't there.

    All you 'Police State' people can always volunteer to become Special Constables if you wish and see how it looks from the other side.

    One more thing....the copper was wrong but the bloke who got hit was deliberately moving slowly and daring them in a way, not that that excuses the copper's actions, he's had it either way.

    Sorry for ranting. Note to self: Don't post after wine.
  • symo
    symo Posts: 1,743
    Gene Poole wrote:
    Police State? Don't make me laugh.

    What about the IPCC?

    That copper is on his own and looking at losing his job minimum.

    He went against his training, and his Force policy.
    What the policy on the day of herding all people in that area (whether protesters or not) into a street containing them there without access to toilets or water? Hmmm surely thats imprisonment by another name?
    Gene Poole wrote:
    Mind you it easy for us to judge, we weren't there.
    True, but funny how the Met wanted the CCTV turning off eh?

    Gene Poole wrote:
    All you 'Police State' people can always volunteer to become Special Constables if you wish and see how it looks from the other side.
    Sorry already served for my country once I have nothing to prove.

    Gene Poole wrote:
    One more thing....the copper was wrong but the bloke who got hit was deliberately moving slowly and daring them in a way, not that that excuses the copper's actions, he's had it either way.
    So the police now have the right to tell you where to walk, what manner to walk, which direction. OK seems fair. Someone far wiser than me once said "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" and he is right. Under this government some branches of the armed forces have been asked if they would fire on UK citizens if so ordered. This protest was against people who have ruined millions of peoples pensions and been kept in their jobs with their bonuses intact, and the police were there to defend them at the request of this unelected prime minister.

    Gene Poole wrote:
    Sorry for ranting. Note to self: Don't post after wine.

    Always sensible, you come across like a Daily Mail reader.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    we are the proud, the few, Descendents.

    Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Gene Poole wrote:
    One more thing....the copper was wrong but the bloke who got hit was deliberately moving slowly and daring them in a way, not that that excuses the copper's actions, he's had it either way.
    Two slight points of note...

    1. It is possible that something happened before the phone video footage. Was he being provocative? Was he allowed to pass through the police cordon? I don't know and neither do you.
    2. The guy dropped dead of a heart attack 3 minutes later. To me he looked uncoordinated and its quite possible that he was already in difficulty. Bear in mind that you may be passing judgement based on footage of a man in the process of dying of natural causes.
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    1) There is nothing that could justify the assault - if the chap had been provocative he could have been arrested.
    2) Fair point.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    It's always cuious to hear opinions of people who neither witnessed the incident nor have the full circumstances.

    I'm not justifying any actions in any way, but I always reserve my judgement until the end of the investigation.
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    NapoleonD wrote:
    It's always cuious to hear opinions of people who neither witnessed the incident nor have the full circumstances.

    I'm not justifying any actions in any way, but I always reserve my judgement until the end of the investigation.
    I tend to agree with you, but there is no way that pushing over a person who has his hand in his pockets and walking away from you can be justified under any circumstances - well, only perhaps if the person was a threat and this was done to disable him prior to arrest, but this was obviously not the case.

    I cannot imagine any interpretation of the video that could lead to a conclusion that this was reasonable force. I am usually very sympathetic to the police, they have a tough job and generally deal with things in a civilised manner (I have worked with the Police often, dealing with people with mental health problems, and I have always found them to be very kind and patient). In this case the policeman lost it! Why he did, we don't know - could be a variety of mitigating circumstances applying (was personally insulted, overworked and overstressed, under trained, etc), none of which would turn this wrong into a right, but might affect the type of punishment he receives. I can fully understand someone "losing it" and I do have sympathy, I wouldn't enjoy the stress of policing that situation - but it is still wrong.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I did say I wasn't justifying any action...
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Yes Nap - my little rant was more about justifying my unusual step of taking a stance before the investigation reports.
  • Will Snow
    Will Snow Posts: 1,154
    Gene Poole wrote:
    Rich158 wrote:
    Anarchy dudes, that's the answer

    Really? So you won't mind if I come round and nick your bike then.

    well, if you did, you wouldnt be a very good anarchist. anarchy and chaos are not the same.
    i ride a hardtail
  • symo
    symo Posts: 1,743
    Will Snow wrote:
    Gene Poole wrote:
    Rich158 wrote:
    Anarchy dudes, that's the answer

    Really? So you won't mind if I come round and nick your bike then.

    well, if you did, you wouldnt be a very good anarchist. anarchy and chaos are not the same.

    Gold star for the correct definition there.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    we are the proud, the few, Descendents.

    Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.
  • Will Snow
    Will Snow Posts: 1,154
    fine, anarchy and chaos are not the same thing when looked at in a sense of government or state.
    i ride a hardtail

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