Signalling

brushed

I consider myself a cyclist who is a road user and part of the traffic rather than a pedestrian on two wheels so I try to make a hand signal at all turns.

In my view this reinforces your safe position in the traffic to vehicles and to peds

I have always been amazed by number of cyclists who dont use hand signals to indicate they are about to made a turn.

I ride from Camden through W1 into SW1 rush hour weekdays and never see more than about 1 or 2 cyclists making hand signals on each journey other than myself.

Why is this ?

nation

Very often I don't because if I do it puts me in a dangerous position.

I do tend to signal if turning right (though really lane positioning is often enough to make this obvious) but I've noticed that if I signal left any traffic behind will instantly floor their throttle and sweep past with inches to spare.

Eat My Dust

I always signal for a right hand turn or lane change ,but as above I very rarely signal a left hand turn (unless there's a car waiting to pull out).

gtvlusso

I only signal in SS7.....!

davmaggs

I agree that I rarely see signals used. As I had cycling lessons at school in the 80s I've always thought that they were a good idea

I've always found that using hand signals (espcially moving to the right) means that drivers give you a lot more room, and if you are doing something last minute (like avoiding a stopping bus) then they tend to give you the space. Road rage incidents drop right down.

As a car driver I can say that bikes are often have more uncertainty or variables in what they are doing than a vehicle. Usual examples are that they often don't stick to lanes/the law/common sense and can change direction fast enough to limit your chances to know what they are doing*.

I've found that you get a lot of credit for signalling, and extra space to move.


* I know that cars break rules, but as a cyclist being right is no consellation prize when you're in hospital

Jay dubbleU

I always give hand signals - I don't understand why signalling would put you in a dangerous position

jimmypippa

Braking?

I check, signal, brake.... sometimes signal again.

nation

Jay dubbleU wrote:

I always give hand signals - I don't understand why signalling would put you in a dangerous position

I probably should have said "situation" rather than "position".

The drivers 'round here tend to take it as an invitation to roar past, and seem to do it with less room to spare than when they pass you when you're travelling on a straight stretch of road.

The Chingford Skinhead

Eat My Dust wrote:

I always signal for a right hand turn or lane change ,but as above I very rarely signal a left hand turn (unless there's a car waiting to pull out).

+1

Jay dubbleU wrote:

I always give hand signals - I don't understand why signalling would put you in a dangerous position

There can be a number of reasons - amazing how many road humps appear at signalling distance from junctions - letting go of the handlebar then makes the bike less stable.

John Franklin in Cyclecraft concurs with nation above - often if you signal left the car behind will floor it to pass or worse still to get and turn the corner before you.

That said, I always signal right

_Brun_

Turning left presents a bit of a dilemma...

I prefer being in primary before turning because it means you have to slow down less to take the corner. However, staying out in the road also makes it more important that anyone following knows you're slowing down, and lacking brake lights means signalling is important if you don't want WVM up your jacksy.

As has been mentioned in another thread reccently, a few conspicuous looks over the shoulder helps greatly before manoevering. Drivers seem to pay more attention to you if they know you're aware of them.

jonginge

_Brun_ wrote:

Turning left presents a bit of a dilemma...

I prefer being in primary before turning because it means you have to slow down less to take the corner. However, staying out in the road also makes it more important that anyone following knows you're slowing down, and lacking brake lights means signalling is important if you don't want WVM up your jacksy.

As has been mentioned in another thread reccently, a few conspicuous looks over the shoulder helps greatly before manoevering. Drivers seem to pay more attention to you if they know you're aware of them.

I use this all the time. Amazing the effectiveness of glancing back and then looking back more pointedly at the near-side front wheel that is too close.

Doesn't work so well for drafting fairies. They don't seem to understand rear-wheel, front-wheel overlap inhibits maneuverability

AndyManc

jimmypippa wrote:

Braking?

I check, signal, brake.... sometimes signal again.

Bettcha look like Travolta in Night Fever doing all that




.

downfader

I signal, though sometimes swear drivers think I'm gesturing to let them go first. :?

jimmypippa

AndyManc wrote:

jimmypippa wrote:

Braking?

I check, signal, brake.... sometimes signal again.

Bettcha look like Travolta in Night Fever doing all that



.

Probably, but I do find it hard to brake and signal simultaneously, as the bike often feels a little unstable in such a situation.

I also find that checking round and making eye contact when turning right is a good ide, often the car/van/truck drivers motion me to change lanes at this point (approaching a roundabout a little slower than the motors).

AndyManc

jimmypippa wrote:

Probably, but I do find it hard to brake and signal simultaneously, as the bike often feels a little unstable in such a situation.
.

If only people didn't think they were so un-cool :roll:



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always_tyred

nation wrote:

Very often I don't because if I do it puts me in a dangerous position.

I do tend to signal if turning right (though really lane positioning is often enough to make this obvious) but I've noticed that if I signal left any traffic behind will instantly floor their throttle and sweep past with inches to spare.

I don't indicate because it is dangerous. This concept is new to me.

It ranks up alongside the "helmets make you take more risks" and "I run red lights to make myself safer" arguments. Well done.

Harry182

Nothing pisses me off more than cars that turn in front of me without signalling. I indicate by pointing in the direction I intend to turn.

roger_merriman

Always Tyred wrote:

nation wrote:

Very often I don't because if I do it puts me in a dangerous position.

I do tend to signal if turning right (though really lane positioning is often enough to make this obvious) but I've noticed that if I signal left any traffic behind will instantly floor their throttle and sweep past with inches to spare.

I don't indicate because it is dangerous. This concept is new to me.

It ranks up alongside the "helmets make you take more risks" and "I run red lights to make myself safer" arguments. Well done.

indeed...

DavidTQ

I indicate for turns \ pulling in etc. Ive never noticed any increase in close passing when indicating left, but then I do like using primary position at any points where drivers could be tempted to overtake to close, which probably helps.

I have to say although I always indicate turning, I NEVER indicate braking, If Im braking hard, other than for a turn then I probably want both hands on the bars and more than likely using both brake levers.

nation

Always Tyred wrote:

nation wrote:

Very often I don't because if I do it puts me in a dangerous position.

I do tend to signal if turning right (though really lane positioning is often enough to make this obvious) but I've noticed that if I signal left any traffic behind will instantly floor their throttle and sweep past with inches to spare.

I don't indicate because it is dangerous. This concept is new to me.

It ranks up alongside the "helmets make you take more risks" and "I run red lights to make myself safer" arguments. Well done.

In the specific circumstance where I'm turning left and there is following traffic. I'm just going on my experience riding in this city. I do indicate when turning right, because otherwise the following traffic may not realise that I intend to slow or stop. Slowing significantly or stopping to turn left is very rarely necessary, so it's not like I'm going to be doing anything that would require any following driver to react.

At best, it would allow a driver waiting to pull out of the junction I'm turning into, which is more of a courtesy thing than a safety thing.

It's also probably worth mentioning that I've only had problems with people passing close when I indicate left in this city. I didn't have the same problem when I lived in Glasgow.

DavidTQ

nation wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

nation wrote:

Very often I don't because if I do it puts me in a dangerous position.

I do tend to signal if turning right (though really lane positioning is often enough to make this obvious) but I've noticed that if I signal left any traffic behind will instantly floor their throttle and sweep past with inches to spare.

I don't indicate because it is dangerous. This concept is new to me.

It ranks up alongside the "helmets make you take more risks" and "I run red lights to make myself safer" arguments. Well done.

In the specific circumstance where I'm turning left and there is following traffic. I'm just going on my experience riding in this city. I do indicate when turning right, because otherwise the following traffic may not realise that I intend to slow or stop. Slowing significantly or stopping to turn left is very rarely necessary, so it's not like I'm going to be doing anything that would require any following driver to react.

At best, it would allow a driver waiting to pull out of the junction I'm turning into, which is more of a courtesy thing than a safety thing.

I definetely have to slow when turning left which is probably why I do indicate, I dont know if thats because Im too cautious on the bends or too fast along the straights . But on most of my turns a left signal would help prepare a motorist behind me for my slow down., most likely Im directly in their path as well at that point.

mattybain

Always Tyred wrote:

nation wrote:

Very often I don't because if I do it puts me in a dangerous position.

I do tend to signal if turning right (though really lane positioning is often enough to make this obvious) but I've noticed that if I signal left any traffic behind will instantly floor their throttle and sweep past with inches to spare.

I don't indicate because it is dangerous. This concept is new to me.

It ranks up alongside the "helmets make you take more risks" and "I run red lights to make myself safer" arguments. Well done.

Well Cyclecraft doesn't agree with you. I can't remember the exact words but It states something like that "sometimes signalling to turn left can you put in a difficult (dangerous?) position".

I think it focuses on the fact that other cars also turning left are tempted to overtake you and then turn left without giving you enough room.

dirk_van_gently

Jay dubbleU wrote:

I always give hand signals

Always?
WHY?
it should be a decision that is made based upon traffic and road conditions, if no one will benefit from your signal, why make one? Who are you signaling to?

Jay dubbleU

Dirk Van Gently wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

I always give hand signals

Always?
WHY?
it should be a decision that is made based upon traffic and road conditions, if no one will benefit from your signal, why make one? Who are you signaling to?

OK - perhaps not literally always :roll:

Jay dubbleU

OK - example from this morning - I'm in a one way street right hand lane and signalling right - Nissan Micro tries to overtake me on the left as I turn not realising that I'm about to turn left into another road - if I hadn't signalled left she would have had no warning as I turned across her - as it was she had to slam on her brakes sharpish

nation

Jay dubbleU wrote:

OK - example from this morning - I'm in a one way street right hand lane and signalling right - Nissan Micro tries to overtake me on the left as I turn not realising that I'm about to turn left into another road - if I hadn't signalled left she would have had no warning as I turned across her - as it was she had to slam on her brakes sharpish

I'm having trouble picturing this. So it's a two lane one way street, you turned right from the right hand lane, then there's another junction on the street you turned into (at which you were turning left) immediately afterwards?

Headhuunter

I try to signal but agree with what others have said, sometimes taking one hand off the brakes puts you in more danger, especially at busy junctions in central London. I like to have my brakes covered at all times and also as I approach any junction I need to shift down through my gears, so what with this, avoidind the ubiquitous potholes (which you often need to hands on the bars to prevent yourself being thrown off the bike) and braking/shifting down, I don't get much time to fling my arm out in the air.

Jay dubbleU

nation wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

OK - example from this morning - I'm in a one way street right hand lane and signalling right - Nissan Micro tries to overtake me on the left as I turn not realising that I'm about to turn left into another road - if I hadn't signalled left she would have had no warning as I turned across her - as it was she had to slam on her brakes sharpish

I'm having trouble picturing this. So it's a two lane one way street, you turned right from the right hand lane, then there's another junction on the street you turned into (at which you were turning left) immediately afterwards?

Pretty much - its about 15m from the corner - means that you have to swap from the right side of the street as you come round the corner to the left - the street is too narrow to have separate lanes

Headhuunter

Jay dubbleU wrote:

nation wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

OK - example from this morning - I'm in a one way street right hand lane and signalling right - Nissan Micro tries to overtake me on the left as I turn not realising that I'm about to turn left into another road - if I hadn't signalled left she would have had no warning as I turned across her - as it was she had to slam on her brakes sharpish

I'm having trouble picturing this. So it's a two lane one way street, you turned right from the right hand lane, then there's another junction on the street you turned into (at which you were turning left) immediately afterwards?

Pretty much - its about 15m from the corner - means that you have to swap from the right side of the street as you come round the corner to the left - the street is too narrow to have separate lanes

In that sort of situation I tend to try to get myself as near as possible to the same speed as the motor traffic then "take the lane"/block motorists whilst signalling left (if it's safe to do so). It's one of those situations you have to take a more assertive road position to be safe.

Jay dubbleU

Yep - that's exactly what I did but the fact that she was trying to push past me on my left as I rounded the corner didn't help

Christophe3967

The only time when signalling right can be difficult is on really badly surfaced roads e.g Borough High St, where to remove one hand from the bars could cause you to lose balance. Slowing down is an option but this creates other problems and brings you closer to following traffic. Trying to make eye contact with following traffic is always a good idea but not pratical for many reasons, not least avoiding the potholes, in the dark etc. Generally I would aim to be riding primary where I know the road surface is bad - obviously it helps to do this at the same speed as the rest of the traffic, and even if its only a brief lifting of the right hand and glance over the shoulder, one hopes that the following traffic is paying attention as you're already directly in their line of vision.

I've still had people overtake me when I'm indicating right, so you can never take anything for granted.