Ventoux-friendly Chainset

19Chaz76

Hi all

I have signed up for the Etape on 20th July this year and have come to realise following some big hill rides in the South Downs (not even close to Ventoux) that my double is not going to get me up. I am looking for a triple chainset and STI to replace the current double on my Trek 1.7 - Have been quoted c£400 all-in, which seems a little excessive. Does anyone have any guidance as to where I could pick up second hand? Would like it to be Shimano but not too concerned about sub-brand. I will be switching back to my trusty double once Ventoux is over and done with.

Thanks

C

Monty Dog

You should be able to pick up a 34/50T compact chainset, a new cassette with a 27 tooth big sprocket, and a new chain for £120-150. If you still need a triple, frankly you're probably not fit enough and unlikely to miss the broomwagon.

on-yer-bike

From what I've read you only want a triple if you are reasonably fit and after a fast time, not because you want a Sunday afternoon stroll. If you struggle here with a compact and a 12 -29 you ain't going to do the Etape.

dombo6

Monty Dog wrote:

You should be able to pick up a 34/50T compact chainset, a new cassette with a 27 tooth big sprocket, and a new chain for £120-150. If you still need a triple, frankly you're probably not fit enough and unlikely to miss the broomwagon.

I agree with Monty Dog. The 30x25 bottom gear on my triple is not much different than the 34x27. Given the choice I'd have had a compact but I got my bike in the sale and it only came with a triple. I use the granny only as a bailout, because it's there.
Lots of riders in last year's etpae had triples including me and I comfortably missed the broomwagon. Twiddling up past the wannabes mashing on their racing doubles cheered me up no end.

This year's etape looks a lot tougher though. And the biggest variable is weather. We went up our mountains comfortably in drizzle and damp mist. Swap that for 40 degrees and melting tarmac and you'll wish you'd stayed at home.

Even cheaper, just stick a mtb cassette and XT mech on the back. The resultant 39x32 combo will get you up anything.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ have good deals on mtb kit so 85 quid should see you sorted. The indexing is in the STI lever so the 9-speed mech should cover your 10-speed block.

Anyway, it's over three months away so you've plenty of time. Just ride loads of hills, sign up for Dragon Ride etc, and on the day itself, treat it as a bloody great day out on the bike and enjoy it.

acorn_user

Is your bike 9 or 10 speed? If it is 9 speed, I'd recommend the XT mech and 12-32 cassette/new chain option. If you need lower, pick up a compact. Some Shimano STI levers are double or triple compatible, necessitating a change in STI lever, which is really expensive.

If you are running 10 speeds, there are only a couple of 10 speed 32t options. IRD make one, and Shimano make one, but it is exclusive to a tandem company called Santana.

dombo6

oops. Yeah sorry, I forgot 10 sp chains are narrower so if you're running 10sp my cunning 9 sp XT plan won't work.

Perhaps start an intensive doping program?

normanp

Monty Dog wrote:

You should be able to pick up a 34/50T compact chainset, a new cassette with a 27 tooth big sprocket, and a new chain for £120-150. If you still need a triple, frankly you're probably not fit enough and unlikely to miss the broomwagon.

Sorry Monty - I can't agree. I have completed 4 etapes (comfortable bronze times) with a triple. It is good for those of us who lack absolute strength but have good endurance. Ok - I have no hope for silver - but what great days cycling they have been!

To reliably complete the Etape as a mediocre rider I think you need a lot of km in your legs (eg say 7000 between Oct and July). Maybe there are other ways - but it is a long day in the saddle if you are not used to distance.

I haven't a clue how people manage silver or gold though...!

Monty Dog

Yes, but if he's struggling to get over the South Downs iin spring and feels he need a triple for 300m maximum ascent at no more than 10%, then how's he going to cope with Ventoux in 4 months?

19Chaz76

Guys thanks for all the guidance. Just to give a bit more perspective I was up and down box and leith hill a number of times doing a total of 100k on the double. Not sure I ever said I 'struggled' on the South Downs! Just want to do everything I can to ensure I don't get picked up by the broomwagon. Not bothered about pride, more about raising money for charity and completing a pretty intense challenge.

On for Dragon Ride and a sportive pretty much every weekend until then.

I have managed to find a triple, derailleur and STI on Ebay / bike radar classifieds so just a question of getting them fitted and getting a few more Welsh kms under my belt. Bring on 20th July!

dombo6

normanp wrote:

I haven't a clue how people manage silver or gold though...!

They ride faster

Seriously though, despite similar distance and vertical climbing to the Dragon Ride, the Etape climbs are longer and so more energy sapping. For example my DR time last year was a full hour shorter than my etape time with similar pit stops, yet the etape was a shorter distance.

normanp

Fair points Monty & Dombo. There seems to be a little irritation in France about foreigners who enter with guaranteed places but haven't done enough training to have a chance of finishing. As to gears I suppose we are all different: it is hard to simulate what you feel like on a major Alpine size climb with 150k in your legs and literally nothing left in them. Good riders can still honk up the mountain / produce plenty of power - I just spin but do at least get there reliably!

For a rider like me it is amazing to see what good riders are capable of - and realise the difference between myself and them (mind you a lot of them are 30 years younger than me!).

There's lots of interesting comment on the velo101 cyclosportive forum about the etape & gearing (if you are OK with rather idiomatic French)

flattythehurdler

19Chaz76 wrote:

Guys thanks for all the guidance. Just to give a bit more perspective I was up and down box and leith hill a number of times doing a total of 100k on the double. Not sure I ever said I 'struggled' on the South Downs! Just want to do everything I can to ensure I don't get picked up by the broomwagon. Not bothered about pride, more about raising money for charity and completing a pretty intense challenge.

On for Dragon Ride and a sportive pretty much every weekend until then.

I have managed to find a triple, derailleur and STI on Ebay / bike radar classifieds so just a question of getting them fitted and getting a few more Welsh kms under my belt. Bring on 20th July!

With that sort of mileage you will finish no problem. The etape isn't too bad this year though pray it's not 40deg, and go steady steady up the ventoux even if you feel good. "It's not like other mountains"
I would always recommend as teiddling bail out gear, either a triple or a compact with a 12-29 if possible, whichever is cheaper. There are no prizes for finishing in a bigger gear. Enjoy.

eh

"doing a total of 100k on the double"

Wow a whole 62 miles give yourself a clap. But seriously using short, steep hills to determine your gearing for long shallower ones makes little sense to me.

haven't a clue how people manage silver or gold though...!

Go there race fit and race it, don't 'enjoy' it, don't stop for views and stay on it the entire way. Oh and learn to suffer lots.

terongi

eh wrote:

"doing a total of 100k on the double"

Wow a whole 62 miles give yourself a clap...

bit harsh

eh

bit harsh

Not really it is a race up a mountain that has left many a top rider in a grim state and the OP is saying he can ride a distance a teenager or OAP* could, and you expect me to think thats acceptable? If you want to go for a nice ride up the Ventoux do it in your own time, if you are going to do the Etape you should be committed to it and that means a bit more than a few 100km rides before hand. No wonder GB riders at the Etape have a bad rep with many.

* and thats unfair to many teenager and OAPs.

Mettan

Another option gearing-wise (assuming you're on 8 or 9 speed) would be to use a 50/34 Compact with an 11-32 or 12-32 cassette with MTB rear deraileur. Works well enough for Sportives and training - you could always swap to a racing cassette for race days (I do).

nasahapley

eh wrote:

bit harsh

Not really it is a race up a mountain that has left many a top rider in a grim state and the OP is saying he can ride a distance a teenager or OAP* could, and you expect me to think thats acceptable? If you want to go for a nice ride up the Ventoux do it in your own time, if you are going to do the Etape you should be committed to it and that means a bit more than a few 100km rides before hand. No wonder GB riders at the Etape have a bad rep with many.

* and thats unfair to many teenager and OAPs.

Ooh Chaz you better start training really hard now, or else eh won't think it's 'acceptable', and what then? Seriously eh get over yourself; the Etape is billed as a race but then so is the London Marathon. Similar to the LM you'll have a tiny handful in with a shout of winning, then club racers going for quick times, then weekend warriors going for not-so-quick times, then loads just wanting to get round. I manage to train hard for the LM and expect a quick time without getting shirty about those who aim to just get round, so what's your problem with Chaz? Are you saying that everyone but the British treat it like an all-out race? Because that's not true is it?

dombo6

Chaz's training at this time for what he wants to achieve is fine and exactly what I did last year in prep for the etape. Sure, you won't replicate Alps/Pyrenean climbs in the Surrey Hills but short of going out to France and pre-riding the route that's the best way to train, along with sportives of 100 miles etc.
As to how the French perceive we undertraining Brits, nothing amused me more than twiddling past some shaved-legged local wannabes in full FdJ kit as they zig zaggd up Tourmalet on their racing doubles

normanp

Dombo6 wrote:

..As to how the French perceive we undertraining Brits, nothing amused me more than twiddling past some shaved-legged local wannabes in full FdJ kit as they zig zaggd up Tourmalet on their racing doubles

I've had this same experience Dombo on Alpe d'Huez! I have to contradict you eh: I am only 4 years from drawing my pension so maybe I'm older & wiser (sorry - unnecessarily provocative)... this is a ride to experience to the full. Yes race but to enjoy racing, ditto with training. Take a good look around at the magnificent views, enjoy the light & the air, enjoy riding with people who love riding, appreciate the amazing whirr of 8000 fine bikes in the start, burst into spontaneous tears at the finish... I could go on. You may never get the chance to see this again - who knows? Personally I don't enjoy suffering but that doesn't rule out going to one's limits and beyond - maybe that is about attitude?

dombo6

Totally agree normanp. The views would have been superb were it not for the low cloud and drizzle that bedevilled my etape in 2008, so I took my pleasures where I could!
These photos from cyclefit sum up the somewhat less than scenic conditions of the day:

http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/jules_phil_et ... l_push.htm

It is a fantastic day out on the bike, great atmosphere and sense of achievement when completed. With harder training I may have scraped a silver rather than a mid-pack comfortable bronze.

Everybody rides their own Etape, some to "win" it others to enjoy it.
I certainly intend doing many others.

Road Red

As a cycling novice, who has had the temerity to enter the Etape, and will at best complete it in a slow time, I have avidly followed many forums on the subject, looking for help and advice.

I'm delighted to say that the majority of experienced cyclists are encouraging and supportive of novices and pleased that there are new cyclists on the road.

There is however a small minority of cycling snobs, like eh, who regard their events as the private domain of those who have cycled for years and do so very competitively. Good luck to them, does eh have a cut off point in sportives (below silver time?) beyond which he believes no one has a right to be there?

Get a life guys. There are big wide roads out there with room for us all. I presume (and hope) our sportive entry fees are going to the clubs to improve facilities, which I'm sure eh is happy to avail of.

Finally, I would like to apologise to eh in advance just in case I ever have a higher starting number than him in an event and he loses a nanosecond as he has to get around my wide and slow rear end!

redddraggon

Road Red wrote:

There is however a small minority of cycling snobs, like eh, who regard their events as the private domain of those who have cycled for years and do so very competitively. Good luck to them, does eh have a cut off point in sportives (below silver time?) beyond which he believes no one has a right to be there?

I think the issue the moaners have is people enter the etape (at any cost), not do any training or not doing any decent training (I guess it does happen) turn up on the day and proceed to get caught by the broomwagon.

You could say that it's their money they've wasted, but there's only limited slots to the etape....I don't think the etape is something to take lightly...

APIII

[/quote]

I think the issue the moaners have is people enter the etape (at any cost), not do any training or not doing any decent training (I guess it does happen) turn up on the day and proceed to get caught by the broomwagon.

You could say that it's their money they've wasted, but there's only limited slots to the etape....I don't think the etape is something to take lightly...[/quote]

That's just wrong in my opinion. There is an allocation for British riders, but if you haven't got an entry, it's probably because you didn't make the effort to get in early.

Slow1972

And it is afterall a sportive, not a race in the true sense. If people are more concerned about properly racing than soaking up al the rest of the things the day is about, they are wasting their entry fee. They'd be better off entering other (cheaper) continental sportives with lower entry numbers and a greater proportion of race fit riders where they aren't going to feel they are being held up.

I did it for the first time last year and passed plenty of heros pushing their bikes with a 39x25 lowest gear up Tourmalet and Hautacam on my £450 Giant and a triple. And trust me, spinning a 32x26 up them climbs was a lot quicker than walking up a 10% hill in cleats For me it was about enjoying a sportive, riding some seriously long climbs and enjoying the whole experience, not just battering myself at the expense of not soaking in the experience.

That said, this year I'm fitter, gearing won't be as low as my 32x26 last year and I'm hoping for a better time, but I don't begrudge anyone's entry whose sole personal aim is to simply complete before the broom wagon. In my view most of them have still done a lot more prep than all those london marathon runners who waste their over-subscribed entries by walking the whole way. And it was me getting an entry and setting myself that target which has encouraged me to get back in to a routine of spending a lot more time on my bike and start racing. So setting yourself these big targets can have a massively positive influence on an individual's enjoyment of the sport