Filling up bottles in streams?

Bhima

Was in the peak district today and cycled past a resevoir - a few miles up the road, I filled up my bottles with water from a stream (which eventually ends up at the resevoir) as it was hot and I was desperate!

The water tastes a bit "milky" and has a slight yellow tint to it.

I took some home with me - Is there any way to test this to see if it's drinkable?

I'm sure it must, somehow, be related to the water you get just down the road in Buxton, which is definately drinkable...?

Here it is, compared to my standard tap water:

Barrie_G

If you're happy drinking run off from the fells along with the sheep droppings and rotting vegetation then feel free.

The water from the reservoir goes through several purification/filtration stages before it gets to the water mains, and Buxton water will be from a ground well / spring which has been filtered as it passes through the layers of earth and rock before being drawn from the ground, not surface water which you are proposing you drink.

Bhima

Compare the volume of water to the amount of sheep droppings and it doesn't seem like they would influence it much... :?:

Like I said, I was desperate at the time - but if I ever need to do it again, would it be better to fill up 5 miles away at the resevoir itself, where it could possibly have gone through a subtle filtering process on its 5 mile journey...? Or would there be no difference?

ColinJ

I saw a TV programme once where the presenter was talking about how fresh the water in a stream probably was. He walked about 20 yards upstream and found a maggot-ridden rotting sheep carcass in the water! :shock:

Barrie_G

http://grd.cne-siar.gov.uk/press/archive/061011b.htm

Read the above, then make up your own mind.

Probably not the most in depth report there is but I chose it as it is UK related.

andymiller

Like I said, I was desperate at the time - but if I ever need to do it again, would it be better to fill up 5 miles away at the resevoir itself, where it could possibly have gone through a subtle filtering process on its 5 mile journey...? Or would there be no difference?

The water in the reservoir would be treated before it is supplied for people to drink.

Worth investing in one of these perhaps?

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product353.asp

Bhima

Just found this; it's very educational!

http://www.aquatabs.ca/water_101.html

Thanks Andy, i'll look into it.

Although, the filters/chemicals i've looked at seem to take 10-30 minutes to work. :?

Looking into UV light serilizers - as they are supposed to be able to kill bacteria within minutes.

Jay dubbleU

The problem is not so much the discolouration which could just be peat but the unseen - unless you pick water from near the source there's always a danger of amoeba which cause dysentery or a variety of viruses being in the water. If you plan on doing this regularly I suggest you get one of these

http://www.steripen.com/travel/products.html

they are probably the lightest and most effective purifiers around

samtope

I drank stream water that was supposedly suitable for people up a mountain in the swiss alps. I was violently ill all night, I dont recomend finding your water this way..

redddraggon

Bhima

Just seen 120L-worth of these purification tablets on ebay for a fiver! http://www.aquatabs.ca/products.html

That should sort me out for about 100 rides!

SlightlyFuzzy

I got one of these for convenience when hiking/wildcamping - obviously heavier than tablets or iodine, but convenient if you know you'll use it on a ride as it fits in a bottle cage;

http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/outdoo ... 60crx.aspx

I like it - pretty hassle free really. Not entirely perfect for this use, but I have used it as a filter - fill it up and pump water through it into another vessel. Down to personal choice, budget and preference I suppose. Worth a thought?

nwallace

Been drinking out of waterfalls and fast flowing burns for years, but that does look like a source I would not be using without some form of treatment. It's not so much what's in it as what I haven't got any resistance to from living in an area of purified and chemical laden mains supply water.
There have been a fair number of complaints about recent changes made by Scottish water. Around here it now tastes chemically, something I am reminded of every time I go to a mates house where the water supply is take from a bore hole in their field.

Crapaud

ColinJ wrote:

I saw a TV programme once where the presenter was talking about how fresh the water in a stream probably was. He walked about 20 yards upstream and found a maggot-ridden rotting sheep carcass in the water! :shock:

ISTR from my youth, when I was in the BB, that the advice was to check for animal carcasses for 1 mile upstream and even then only to take water from fast flowing streams - never from stagnant or slow moving ones.

Bhima wrote:

Compare the volume of water to the amount of sheep droppings and it doesn't seem like they would influence it much...

A few years ago one of Glasgow's reservoirs became infected with Cryptosporidium from run-off through sheep dung. It can be fatal (see link). At a course at Stirling Uni we were told that most water monitoring stations in the UK didn't have the right equipment to check for and eliminate crypto (this was around 10 years ago so is probably out of date).

Better to knock on someone's door and ask for water - at worst, they can only say no.

Magnus Thor

How about something like this?

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/buy.html


Magnus Thor
Iceland

crankycrank

I don't think I would trust any stream any place in the world now. I don't doubt that there are plenty of safe streams around but with so much pollution and disease reaching just about every place on the planet I think there is always a great risk. IME a portable water filter or iodine tabs are a must.

GyatsoLa

The 'milkiness' is from suspended solids - also maybe there is iron oxide in there (as a result of the acidity of upland streams running through peatland). Its harmless in itself.

The 'dead sheep' problem is a red herring, if you don't mind me mixing up the animal metaphors. There aren't many waterborne pathogens you can get from a long dead animal. The danger is from dung and urine from farm animals, there is a whole range of protozoa, bacteria and virus's you can get from that. Most of those parasites use the faeces-water-stomach route as their main way to reproduce, bless 'em.

the simple way around this is to carry a little tub of chlorine or iodine based tabs with you when on a long ride, you can get them in any outdoors shop. they don't cost much and weigh very little. Tastes vile, but better than a dose of the trots or worse.

Wooliferkins

Purification Tablets

ColinJ

GyatsoLa wrote:

The 'dead sheep' problem is a red herring, if you don't mind me mixing up the animal metaphors. There aren't many waterborne pathogens you can get from a long dead animal. The danger is from dung and urine from farm animals, there is a whole range of protozoa, bacteria and virus's you can get from that. Most of those parasites use the faeces-water-stomach route as their main way to reproduce, bless 'em.

What about the rancid dung and urine leaking out of the rotting guts of the dead sheep?

Kenjaja1

Remember that one of the biggest causes of death and disease in the Third World is the lack of a clean water supply. These poor souls have no choice but to obtain water from an open source rather than the piped stuff we tend to take for granted in the developed world. By drinking from an open source you expose yourself to the pathogens which are living in the water and the farming chemicals which run off into the waterways.

I have (once) drunk from a stream like the one in your picture and in similar circumstances (i.e. i was desparate). I got a dose of the trots which was unpleasant but did not do me any serious harm. I have also drunk from mountain streams and waterfalls high above where domestic animals graze - and suffered no ill effects.

Drinking untreated water is a bit like playing Russian Roulette. The odds can be tweaked in your favour - but the more you do it the more likely you are to have a messy outcome.
To tweak the odds in your favour you need to go for water on higher ground, above where people or animals have used it as a toilet. You are better off with faster moving water than slow stagnant stuff and you are better off away from any agricultural area.

One of the chemicals which used to be usd in horticulture for soil sterilisation was so toxic that, after it had been applied and done its job it had to be flushed from the soil. This involved running a fast hose over the sterilised area non-stop for two weeks. During that time both people and animals had to be kep well clear. Obviously this joined the underground water systems which would later be pumped back up for irrigation. It was banned throughout Europe and South America - but still used in some places up to 10 yeas ago. It was pretty deadly stuff and would get you by ingestion, inhalation, or skin absorbtion. The chemicals used these days are not as bad but they are still not designed to go swishing around in our tummies.

To get back to the point:

Any and all open water has some risk attached. You can filter some of the bugs out of manky water with special filters - but some do not get rid of the really small stuff. You can boil water for 4-5 minutes to sterilise it and kil the bugs - but this may or may not get rid of chemicals. Iodine can help make water safer - but tastes bad. It is also not a good idea to drink iodine-treated water over an extended period.

The safest bet on a cycle ride is to either take enough for the ride or to figure out places where you can refill your bottles. Shops and petrol stations are a couple of obvious options. You can also knock on the door of almost any house. If you explain the situation, smile and are polite there are not many people in this world who would refuse to refill your bottles for you.

antfly

If it comes from a fast flowing mountain stream it`s probably the purest water you will ever drink,but it has to be fast flowing.

andymiller

antfly wrote:

If it comes from a fast flowing mountain stream it`s probably the purest water you will ever drink,but it has to be fast flowing.

Evidence?

mattsccm

With 2 exceptions , what a complete load of nanny state cobblers. Use your loaf, don't drink it green and slimy and you'll be alright. More likely to get knocked off your bike than get something nasty. Been drinking water where I find it for at least 40 years and can't even remember a dose of the trots which do no harm anyway.

tardington

Having the trots may make cycling a bit unpleasant though...

I've got (somewhere) a filtration bike bottle. Never used it though!

galaxyboy

If you lived then it was probably okay, it just hasn't been bleached yet.

andymiller

mattsccm wrote:

With 2 exceptions , what a complete load of nanny state cobblers. Use your loaf, don't drink it green and slimy and you'll be alright. More likely to get knocked off your bike than get something nasty. Been drinking water where I find it for at least 40 years and can't even remember a dose of the trots which do no harm anyway.

Erm right, you've obviously never had something like camphyllobacter (which you don't of course get from water but is still one of a number of nasty forms of food poisoning).

It was the Nanny State that gave us all water that is safe to drink literally on tap.

tardington

I did once drink melted glacier water off a norwegian glacier. It was okay!

(just wanted to put that one in 8) )

andrew_s

I've also been drinking from mountain streams for ages without ill effect (despite finding the proverbial dead sheep on at least one occasion). If you stick to fast running streams above the intake line, you will mostly be fine. However, mostly isn't always, so it really depends on your attitude to risk.

Note that purifying tablets take an hour or so to do their stuff, and aren't always effective against cryptosporidium or giardia cysts.