Are carbon bikes better?

stevieboy

Dirtydog11 wrote:

Metal bars will bend if put under too much strain and pressure when riding, carbon bars don't bend.... they just snap

So does aluminium

And whichever way you look at it a bent metal frame is as useful as a snapped carbon one - i.e. not very

I love it how that minor detail gets missed when people compare carbon and metal frames.

I had a rock hit my frame at the British XC at Margam last weekend, having read peoples 'theories' on here I was expecting catestrophic failure not even a chip of overcoat. Yes formula one cars explode on impact, but they are doing 150mph+ usually when in happens.

Carbon is awesome stuff.

Klein XC

I'm currently looking to buy my first carbon hardtail, in part for the ride comfort over an alu frame, and in part due to the weight saving and upgrade potential.

After 10+ years on my super-stiff Klein Attitude which I believe has one of the most rigid alu frames out there, I'm hoping carbon can take the literal pain out of my a*se!

Looking at a Scott Scale 30 and Cannondale Taurine 4 - both very upgradeable bikes. Going to test ride both soon...

Klein XC

PS. Thought you might find this amusing (or horrific). A guy taking a hammer to a carbon Taurine frame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lsDXEEUlRE

boneyjoe

That video is pretty impressive actually. Incredible how the alu just bends with one tap, while the carbon needs several hard wacks before it goes!

toasty

The carbon also doesn't explode into shards, taking out his eyes as people would have you believe, due to the laquer holding it together. I've seen shots of bars having snapped clean off, these will have a far thinner layer of laquer and less layers of carbon weave though.

I like it, good stiff material. It's pushing long travel hardtails into XC hardtail weight catagories rapidly without having to resort to tin can thin bendy tubing like alu race frames.

elPedro666

Klein XC wrote:

I'm currently looking to buy my first carbon hardtail, in part for the ride comfort over an alu frame, and in part due to the weight saving and upgrade potential.

After 10+ years on my super-stiff Klein Attitude which I believe has one of the most rigid alu frames out there, I'm hoping carbon can take the literal pain out of my a*se!

Looking at a Scott Scale 30 and Cannondale Taurine 4 - both very upgradeable bikes. Going to test ride both soon...

So you've already got the bike I always wanted, and now you're after a Taurine as well? Git!

Taurine is a million times cooler than a common-as-Saracens Scale, although the lovely Scott folks at BikeRadar were far & away the most helpful I came across!

Have you looked at the new Merida? Looks like being the comfiest option and not too lardy either...

toasty

Taurine is a million times cooler than a common-as-Saracens Scale, although the lovely Scott folks at BikeRadar were far & away the most helpful I came across

Yeah, good weren't they I had a similar experience, had a spin on a Genius which was good fun. Slightly off topic maybe but I thought the Titus chaps were the oddest. Really helpful, they even flipped a stem for me to raise the bars. Bizarrely though they had no idea what size their bikes were,

"What size roughly does large equate to? 20ish?"
"It's just large innit. Harharh, it's LARGE!"

then his mate piped in saying it was a large, large bike but they had an XL which was probably larger than the large large, nggggh.

Klein XC

elPedro666 wrote:

So you've already got the bike I always wanted, and now you're after a Taurine as well? Git!

Taurine is a million times cooler than a common-as-Saracens Scale, although the lovely Scott folks at BikeRadar were far & away the most helpful I came across!

Have you looked at the new Merida? Looks like being the comfiest option and not too lardy either...

The Klein is one hardcore bike, I love it. Going to be changing onto carbon rigid forks soon to give it a new lease of life :-) However, going over certain types of terrain, especially corrugated hardpack mud that you get in some fields, is a bit like being whipped in the behind with a metal bar (but the compromise is rocket acceleration and laser handling). So I want to try out the more dampened ride that carbon can offer, which will give me the same responsiveness but with slightly less pain. I must be getting old :? The Klein will be retired from racing and kept for training and demolishing twisty singletrack.

By the way, I heard that Trek are reviving the Klein brand later this year. Though after 2002 they moved away from the original Chehalis factory, and now Gary Klein is hardly involved in the brand anymore. Nothing like an original

In addition to the Scale and Taurine, I might also try the Orbea Alma, though I've heard varying reports about this bike, championship winner or not. I've not looked into the Merida, will give that an eyeball - thanks for the nod. But I reckon the Scale is popular because it's a great bike. Though it comes down to the fit - some people may find the slightly different geometry of the Taurine better. You never know until you ride...

elPedro666

Here it is:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... -race-9312
Although that's not the review I remember...

Sorry this was it!
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/artic ... rame-21481
yumyumyum

stevieboy

As a scale owner I can see what you are saying elPedro666 they are a bit common, partly due to the fact that they are awesome and that scott's aftersales is proven.

Gotta admit though, I do like the look of the taurine.

Klein XC

elPedro666 wrote:

Here it is:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... -race-9312
Although that's not the review I remember...

Sorry this was it!
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/artic ... rame-21481
yumyumyum

Oh yes, now we're talking...but I think £7,500 is a little out of my price range I guess the hardtail will be cheaper but still over £3k. I can only justify spending up to the £1,800 mark, or my wife will leave me Of course...she doesn't need to see the receipt... :twisted:

stevieboy wrote:

As a scale owner I can see what you are saying elPedro666 they are a bit common, partly due to the fact that they are awesome and that scott's aftersales is proven.

Gotta admit though, I do like the look of the taurine.

While it's nice to have a bike that you don't see all that often - the proof is in the pudding - and if it's a flying trail-eating race machine, then I don't care how many people have them! Still waiting to sort out my test ride, but on paper the Scale's geometry looks like it will fit me better than the Dale, but we shall see...

elPedro666

I'm just a bit of a 'Daleophile :roll:

Funnily enough, the standard build on that Merida is £1800... 8)

elPedro666

You can opt for either rim or disc brakes and you can either buy a frame alone or the £1,800 Special Edition bike with a Shimano LX/XT drivetrain, Magura Julie discs and a Manitou Axel Platinum fork. The frame offers a superb ride - noticeably more comfy than the best aluminium frames and up there with some of the best titanium offerings in terms of sharp handling. It would happily run with a 100mm travel fork too.

I've quite taken to it
Wonder how much more the new version will be, arriving end of Summer I believe.

Deserves some serious wheels though, which you could put on a different receipt to maintain harmony...
I like these:
http://www.poshbikes.com/product.php?id=153

Klein XC

elPedro666 wrote:

I'm just a bit of a 'Daleophile :roll:

Yeah I'm also a Daleophile; I've wanted a Dale since the early 90s when only the rich kids and serious bikers could afford them. When I bought my Klein though, it just suited me better. Can't remember which Dale I tested, but it wasn't a patch on the Attitude.

Funnily enough, the standard build on that Merida is £1800... 8)

I must have misread that bit. Now that changes things somewhat...Maybe I should find an FLX to test ride in the meantime. That in itself sounds like a nice bike too. I wonder if I can force myself to wait until the 0.Nine comes out...decisions decisions...

elPedro666

I do like to cause trouble

Funnily enough, I had 'Dales because I couldn't afford an Attitude! Paid £650 for a second hand Delta-V 900, purple to black fade, it was the mutts. My dad dropped it on the garage door frame after we'd collected it - great big scrape down the top tube (one of them) before I'd even ridden it, gutted!

My mate's still got a gold one, must weigh 22lbs if it's an ounce, lovely, if a bit flashy!

[/gush]

Yours looks lovely though (I won't mention the pedals) :shock:
Have you seen the 'period' examples on retrobike? Not quite into that myself, but some excellent efforts!

toasty

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/frames/mountain/product/carbon-race-9312

Quite hefty that Merida Race jobby, similar sort of weight range to my Zaskar. Odd how one brand can be at both ends of the spectrum, both advertised as carbon race rigs.

Any idea what sort of weight the Taurine frame is?

elPedro666

The weight is 1.531kg (3.4lb) including a quick-release seat clamp, bottle cage bolts and inset headset cups.

I've no idea how much

a quick-release seat clamp, bottle cage bolts and inset headset cups.

weigh, but they've only knocked off 200grams to make it the 'world's lightest frame' (possibly).

Maybe the Zaskar's very light!

Taurine is a claimed 1.25kg (2.77lbs), I want one!
http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/5773

toasty

elPedro666 wrote:

I've no idea how much

a quick-release seat clamp, bottle cage bolts and inset headset cups.

weigh, but they've only knocked off 200grams to make it the 'world's lightest frame' (possibly).

Well, no more than about 100g I bet, making it still quite hefty. The best part of a pound heavier than a scale. The Merida FLX frame is lighter than the Race frame I think, I think that's the intemediate step between the carbon race and the new lighter frame.

The Zaskar is no lightweight for carbon, this still leaves it a decent weight for hardtails in general though Quite beefy, stiff tubing on it. Mine's still 24lbs on the scales, the pic is out of date, I'm using much lighter tyres, seatpost and saddle. Doubt it'll ever go under 22lbs as I want to keep it kitted with trail strong bits, brakes and wheels are next to get swapped

Klein XC

elPedro666 wrote:

Funnily enough, I had 'Dales because I couldn't afford an Attitude! Paid £650 for a second hand Delta-V 900, purple to black fade, it was the mutts. My dad dropped it on the garage door frame after we'd collected it - great big scrape down the top tube (one of them) before I'd even ridden it, gutted!

Nice, I remember that bike. Shame about the garage accident! That's the one downside to the Klein - being such thin-wall aluminium, it's very dentable. Though strangely I've never dented it while riding it - it has one very small dent in the downtube, which happened when I was loading it into a car once. Typical - you can crash out on the trail and come away unscathed, but load it into a car and I almost wreck it.

elPedro666 wrote:

Yours looks lovely though (I won't mention the pedals) :shock:
Have you seen the 'period' examples on retrobike? Not quite into that myself, but some excellent efforts!

I'll second that on the pedals. Switched back to the flats after I wrecked my SPD shoes. Picking up some Spesh BG Sports on Friday, I've heard they're as comfy as some shoes twice the price. Also, it will look the dogs when I swap over to the carbon rigids (might need to wear a mouth guard though to stop me from shattering all my teeth).

Yeah I've seen all the Kleins on Retrobikes. I can appreciate what they're doing, but I prefer to keep mine slightly contemporary, as some things really have changed for the better.

Toasty wrote:

Quite hefty that Merida Race jobby, similar sort of weight range to my Zaskar. Odd how one brand can be at both ends of the spectrum, both advertised as carbon race rigs.

My Attitude frame weighs 1.54kg / 3.4lb, so pretty much matches that carbon race frame. So I should at least get a carbon bike that is lighter than the Klein!

supersonic

No doubt the Zaskar is designed to be ridden harder than these race frames.

the newest Merida carbon race frame is a claimed 930g. I have seen alu race frames at 2.3lbs and the Guess XC1 2.7lbs for 400 quid.

Have a look at the Viper Scandium too on CRC at 3.15lbs for 270 quid.

toasty

Indeed, I quite like the way the Zaskar is like a burly race bike, it's a bit of a narrow niche. Similar weight to thin, flexy aluminium bikes:

Klein - being such thin-wall aluminium, it's very dentable.

Yet with more strength than most hardtails out there. It does feel quite racey to me to be honest, more so than my Stumpjumper, it feels at it's best when I'm really stood on the front end in a high gear powering along.

My Stumpjumper HT was 1650g stripped down, it's a fairly solid feeling stiff frame though. I've not heard of many/any breaking. All my bikes are 21" as well which sticks the weight up a bit. No chance of a 930g 21" Merida for me

BurnesideWheelers

320DMsport

The club still exists but only just as a local club (family). I used to race under this team name and will again soon, although the team name has had some sucsess competing in road events such as the B.R.A (France) etc and won quite a few awards/ trophys.

Where are you from?

320DMsport

BurnesideWheelers wrote:

320DMsport

The club still exists but only just as a local club (family). I used to race under this team name and will again soon, although the team name has had some sucsess competing in road events such as the B.R.A (France) etc and won quite a few awards/ trophys.

Where are you from?

Hi there, sounds like your team needs to be out again!

I'm from Kendal....born and bred, not using the word 'Larl' as much these days though.

Did you do the Sam houghton challenge? it was a good day.

BurnesideWheelers

Good stuff, where are you based now? I did the Sam Houghton yes, and despite not training for 3 weeks did it in a decent 3h27mins. I'm pretty happy with that to be honest, I think I'd have got near 3 hours if I'd some training under my belt. It was a quality day, the sun came out just as I was setting off (12.55) and stayed out for the whole ride. Garburn was hard work in that heat though. How did you fare?

320DMsport

I'm still Kendal based.

I'm not making excuses but i rode the course on monday and still felt jaded by the saturday, i wasn't on my race bike either which wasn't good.

I managed 3hr 39 so you pipped me there, good effort by you though.

Made a schoolboy error at the end and went to the wrong place to get my final time, oh well next year.

Heard rumours some were cutting the course up at green quarter which is abit unsporting.

I'm road riding mostly with mtb thrown in and a few races.

BurnesideWheelers

I've not heard that but it would be poor form yeah. Looks like I'll have to get some training in for next year if I'm to beat you again!! I'm planning on the 3 valleys (kentmere, longsleddale, Haweswater, Kentmere) this weekend if you fancy another killer. I think the route's just been in MBR.

320DMsport

Cheers for the offer but have my daughter over to stay every other weekend so busy doing family stuff.

But i'm out at 7am for a 2 hour road ride before work, i'm looking forward to getting my carbon hardtail back, got the 10 at kirroughtree in 3 weeks.

Hell if you get some training in you will whupp me, i've been training all winter as i've only been back on the bike 21 months after a good few years off a bike and you still beat me.

That route sounds good, i'll check MBR out.

You doing the GMBC this year?

I'm doing it and see how i fair this year.

Yeah apparently as there was no marshall at green quarter one or two cut over.

I got asked a couple of times after the race, did you go over to the ruins at green quarter?

Why wouldn't i was my reply but you obviously didn't, they said oh yeah we did looking at eachother.

hmmmm

BurnesideWheelers

I'm not sure how they managed that when the marshal was way back from there.
I was also looking at the kirroughtree event but I think we're going to do le tour de staveley instead, good sesh afterwards and not as expensive to enter. We're possibly going to do the Merida event in wales later in the year, as well as a trip to Morzine in August. Whate the GMBC?

320DMsport

The Kirro event is brilliant, dear to enter but bloody fantastic, single track heaven for ten hours with some off piste parts.

I did it last year and loved it.

Thought about tour staveley but more of a friendly rather than race.

GMBC is Grizedale Mountain Bike Challenge on September 20th, normally around 30 miles but all the best parts of the forest, same people that did Whinlatter Challenge.

How was the ride today?

I ended up doing 37 hillyish miles early on.