alu v carbon v titanium frames/forks

gbs

Would the experienced hands pl comment:

1. on the relative merits of the three materials for an ageing newbie and particularly the value for money issue surrounding the exotic materials

2. the value of made to measure and measuring services such as RETUL

Thanks in advance

Monty Dog

What are you planning to use it for and your riding style / weight?

There are plenty of historic posts on the subject, particularly from Paul Smith.

keef66

It used to be a case of Strong / Light / Cheap......-choose two. Improvements in carbon fibre manufacturing have almost put paid to that dilemma now, and you can have all three.

I think if I was after a new bike now I'd go for a sportive type geometry in full carbon and expect to be paying at least £1000.

If your budget's lower, then alu frame and carbon forks / seat post

I'd only consider the expense of Ti if I knew I'd still be riding it in 40 years time, and if that's the case, Channel 4 will be making a documentary about me!

I'd only resort to a custom built frame if I was a funny shape and couldn't get a decent fit on an off the shelf item.

Paying serious money for a fitting session like Retul shouldn't really be neccessary if you go to a decent bike shop. Mine came from Epic and I spent 3 hours there choosing, being fitted, test riding etc at no extra cost

maddog 2

I think it depends on many factors (use, build, price etc.) not just material.

But, simplistically, and based on my own riding, alu is cheap, light and good value but the ride is a tad harsh and you don't get that atached to it. Ti is expensive and the ride is good - supple yet taught, and it lasts well. Carbon is the hardest to pigeon hole - it can be comfy or v. stiff and I suspect is the best option for pure race performance but it terms of ownership there are question marks. "I just can't love a plastic frame" a mate said to me recently.

As you might gather, I'm a fan of ti but if I was racing then I'd be looking at carbon I suspect.

Oh, and then there is steel.....

gbs

Monty Dog wrote:

What are you planning to use it for and your riding style / weight?

There are plenty of historic posts on the subject, particularly from Paul Smith.

Half days/short fulldays eg group rides Richmond Park/Surry Hills, the easier sportives. I did think of London_Paris but 3/4 days on the saddle is not appealing.

85 KILOS.

Not sure about style; I try to spin rather than grind up/stand on the hills.

I find the Bianchi a little twitchy so something in the style of Spesh Paris-Roubaix might be better.

Budget: since this will probably my last purchase (aged 67 now) and my son is much the same size I am prepared to pay up if the exotics offer VFM .

Thanks for the pointer to PS

acorn_user

I'd get a custom steel frame. If you are able to spend more, there are custom aluminium, carbon and titanium frames, but they are almost always more expensive than steel.

Monty Dog

There's such a breath of available choices in terms of frame materials, geometry and components, there's less compelling reason to go custom unless you are addressing a known bikefit or biomechanical problem. I'd try and get the chance to test ride a few bikes too in order to get a better feel, but from your description, titanium frames from the likes of Van Nicholas, Sunday or Enigma might be a good place to start looking. Fortunately, there are very few 'bad' bikes out there, but plenty of people who make 'bad' choices in terms of what they need and the people who are prepared to sell them what they have, not what they need.

maddog 2

buy a ti frame and get a carbon frame free from planet-x 8)

they do a sportive which would fit the bill

[url=seehttp://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12615444]seehttp://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewt ... t=12615444[/url]

gbs

maddog 2 wrote:

buy a ti frame and get a carbon frame free from planet-x 8)

they do a sportive which would fit the bill

[url=seehttp://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12615444]seehttp://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewt ... t=12615444[/url]

Thanks, I think you are right but I am not rushing in for the April 1st offer. If I can decide by end june I will be content. :?

gbs

Monty Dog wrote:

What are you planning to use it for and your riding style / weight?

There are plenty of historic posts on the subject, particularly from Paul Smith.

Well, I have tried SEARCH using Paul Smith as "author" and have drawn a blank. HELP PLEASE MR MODERATOR. :roll:

billy whippet

go with your heart, not your head (he says, speaking with 12 bikes)... ie the argument that you should only go with ti if you'll be riding in 40 years isn't nearly as important as will it feel special? will you love riding it? will you covert it? I kind of agree with the comment made about carbon - hard to love a plastic bike (and i've got one) wheras I adore my custom steel frames and really want a ti - not because I need one, just because I want one. Aluminium is, in my mind, great for winter trainers and commuters, not for a special bike. Leaves you with Ti or Steel... 853 is pretty expensive, and van nicholas etc are pretty reasonable, so does that bring you to Ti?

northpole

My last bike was an aluminium Condor Italia. Before changing bikes I upgraded it from ali to carbon forks and this in itself created a huge difference to the riding characteristics and balance of the bike (ie the front end was suddenly lighter!).

The main point to make about this was that the bike became alot less harsh than before.

Lower back problems led me to look for a less racing profiled bike and I ended up with a Spesh roubaix pro - very light; slightly upright riding position which suits me perfectly; and very comfortable (for a bicycle with skinny tyres and no springs!!).

Peter

gbs

northpole wrote:

I ended up with a Spesh roubaix pro - very light; slightly upright riding position which suits me perfectly; and very comfortable (for a bicycle with skinny tyres and no springs!!).

Peter

The Roubaix is the sort of bike that I think will suit - designed for sportive rather than flat out racing. Thanks for the input - particulay the comment re forks

blorg

I have two titanium bikes, a Van Nicholas Amazon tourer and a Litespeed Archon road bike. Ti is comfortable while not being too heavy, but it's not some magic material compared to carbon... I have had carbon bikes that have been very stiff and others very comfortable, maybe the Archon is more both, but my carbon bikes were entry level in comparison. Bottom line, I would certainly not rule out carbon, it is a great frame material, almost certainly the best for racing (what do all the pros use?) It's also generally cheaper than Ti, and lighter for the same stiffness. To be honest the main draw of the Ti is that it's metal and something a bit different I think. I would wonder whether it is even any more durable, carbon is tough stuff.

billy whippet

Remember - there's no magic answer! Horses for courses etc - each has merits. But ultimately, go with what you want, rather than trying to find the 'best' or most appropriate for one particular need... Embarrassingly, I have 12 bikes, all different - but actually, I only need about three...

HonestAl

Here's an observation from a slightly different angle. If you really intend this to be your last buy I'd question whether buying a carbon frame is a good idea. Thankfully I've not come adrift on mine (yet) but it seems to me they're the most fragile, hence do you really want that as your last purchase? Conversely a Ti bike will, allegedly go on and on and continue to look good if your son nabs it off of you. Using that logic if you're prepared to spend a couple of grand plus, it might be the way to go.

Note I don't have a Ti bike (though I'm thinking about one) so I have no axe to grind. Oh yes, and enviously looking at billy whippet's post about having 12 but only needing 3. Now just got to persuade my missus that "need" and "3 bikes" can reasonably go in the same sentence

Have fun

billy whippet

honest al - the 'need' is justified by doing all my commuting by bike, day in day out, and saving alot of money! (not sure where that leaves the other 11... have a very understanding wife who sees the joy I get from cycling and tinkering with bikes).

In terms of Carbon - agree about longevity. I bought a silver 5500 trek oclv 15 years ago, and am now wondering if it should be retired - nothing actually wrong with it, just makes me feel a bit uneasy on long v fast descents... crashed on it once when I clipped a pedal in a crit, but luckily frame undamaged. If i'd bought a titanium frame at the time, I'd easily see another 15 years (and more) out of it, but now I doubt i'll be riding it in a year or two.

gbs

HonestAl wrote:

f you really intend this to be your last buy I'd question whether buying a carbon frame is a good idea. .... it seems to me they're the most fragile, hence do you really want that as your last purchase? Conversely a Ti bike will, allegedly go on and on and continue to look good if your son nabs it off of you.

Oh dear! So many conflicting opinions! I was told with authority, but I cannot recall by whom, that cf is now rated as stronger than Ti.

My current thinking is the the Pearson Pave (CF, Campag Centaur) because:

1 Favourable relaxed geometry, good equipment and a fitting service and reasonably priced
2 Understated finish
3 Proprietor managed LBS (well hardly L because I am in Fulham and they are in Sutton about 50 mins away!

Anyone out there know Pearsons or the Pave? I note that they arin included in the GOOD BIKE SHOP thread elsewhere. By the way DDD, good initiative in starting the thread.

cougie

CF isnt as robust for knocks as TI is.

I wouldnt hit my CF frame with a hammer for example - but Ti - it wouldnt be a problem.

From a riding point of view - its plenty strong enough though.