Advice on descending steep narrow lanes

Cubic

Hi,

I had my first trip into the Surrey Hills on the weekend and went around the Ranmore Common area. The ride was fine, but I had a bit of trouble descending some of the steeper hills there, particularly the 18% one on Critten Lane. I usually like fast descents, but the roads were so narrow here that it just didn't feel safe as there was barely enough room to pass the cars coming up the hill. I ended up riding the brakes, but couldn't get my speed below 15-20mph. Luckily no big vans came up as I don't think I could have stopped without diving into the hedge .

I know you have to stay within you own comfort zone, but there are lots of riders who just blast down hills like this and I'm just wondering how they do it? Is it a confidence thing or do they just not think about the consequences of something big coming around the corner?

Plus, do my brakes sound under-powered or wouldn't you expect road bike brakes to stop you on a hill this steep? (I've got 105s by the way)

Anonymous

Whatever you do, don't follow me!

redddraggon

How narrow is narrow?

In North Wales, there's loads of "nice" lanes with climbs, but they often end up with "dodgy" descents. They are effectively windy single track roads with 10ft high hedges on either side - if it could be guaranteed that there's no obstacles round the corners I could do them at "full speed"

I'm a confident descender, but it's pure stupidity to descend fast down such narrow roads with only 20m or so of visibility.

ShaunL

I've almost been up the back of several cars/vans on steep descents on narrow roads.

That's even on a cyclocross bike with disc brakes.

IMHO it is a descision not to think about consequences and just "go for it" that allows some people to descend much faster.

I have too many commitments to just throw caution to the wind nowadays.

I would say though that your brakes should bring you to a stop irrespective of the gradient.

rhext

There are some local hills I simply avoid on the road bike. Not quite so cautious on the mountain bike, but front suspension and hydraulic disks mean you can stop quickly and confidently pretty much anywhere. The brakes on the road bike will bring me to a stop down those hills, but the rigid frame makes emergency braking at high speed a most disconcerting experience and not one you want to experience when a tractor appears 20 meters in front of you.

andrewjoseph

Ride at a speed so that you can stop within the distance you can see. it is pure stupidity to blast down a hill with corners you can't see around.

Your brakes should be able to control your speed to a level you are comfortable with. If you feel you are descending too fast but can't pull any harder, then the brakes need looking at.

I've not got the best brakes on my boardman road bike (tektro quartz), but I still managed a nose wheelie for a few metres before crashing into a bus stop whilst avoiding a teenager doing skids on the main road!!

Cubic

These were pretty narrow lanes, not enough room for two cars to pass except at the lay-bys, but ok for a bike and car to pass, though I wouldn't think it safe to do so at high speed.

I guess it's partly due to being familiar with the roads too. I'd never been down these lanes, so didn't know if any corners/junctions were coming up.

I think I might get my brakes checked in light of your comments , they didn't really inspire me with confidence and I don't think I could have pulled them much harder!

Anonymous

The problem you'll find is with locking up. I have excellent brakes (Sram Red) but recently whilst descending a similar typr lane I stupidly pulled a little too hard on the rear, locked up, recovered, locked up again but this time slid out and into the side of the road at around 40. I could see fine at that speed but I could also see a corner ahead that I tried (and failed spectacularly) to slow down for.

It hurt and I can't ride for at least 3 months.

Any descents like that in future and I'll not let my speed get up to anything like that.

will3

Wot they said.
Plus bear in mind that single track lanes often have a centreline composed of grit and stones as the cars don't clear it, unless you have a particularly hiigh density of three wheelers. End up on this on a bend and instant road rash.

Your brakes do sound a little scary - have you tried cleaning them/the rims? I've had similar experiences, but on a tandem with 180kgs of riders + a trailer weighing 20kgs+
There was a trade off between being able to stop (at all) and riding the brakes so much that the rims over heated and melted the tyres. I don't think you should have that problem, but you may find it interesting to see how hot your rims are at the bottom of the descent.

I sometimes think that what you really need for steep descents is a drogue chute.

chuckcork

Having enjoyed the Surrey Hills for only a few months now, I'd say that a lot of it has to do with ignoring the consequences of coming around a corner and finding a 4WD in your way. How some manage to do so on roads that are covered in gravel/mud, or on my first ride there with snow/ice :shock: is beyond me, I have a sense of self-preservation that hasn't done me wrong.

Yet.

Of course if you have ridden a road more than once you'll be familiar with it and know when to slow down, until then I guess just don't outride your stopping distance, bear in mind that road brakes aren't that powerful, and that going downhill will take longer to stop than ordinarily.

ScottieP

As well as all the other advice in the thread you might want to change your brake pads - I also am on 105 (9 speed) and recently changed to Koolstop pads. I ride on lots of hills in Kent/East Sussex and the new pads have given me a lot more confidence in my brakes .... they're a cheap change too... I got the softer Salmon compound if that helps. They are really very good and I can brake much more confidently on downhills now.

ScottieP

Monty Dog

20-odd years of experience with the Surrey Hills and only ever had one problem on Sheepleas where we were descending fast - a car stops unexpectantly in the middle of the road on the bend and I hit a big bank of sand at the side which sent me arse over elbow. Scuffed the top of my helmet and tore my jersey but thankfully my Colnago was OK. I have also known others to ride the earth bankings as they approached the corners too fast - Coombe Bottom is a good one!
Generally, for descents control your speed such that your braking distance is your line of sight until you get to know the roads - I don't have a problem so much with corners, but knowing where junctions are is pretty vital. That said, the increased size of some 4x4s means a bit less 'wiggle' room for squeezing-by. It's also worth bearing in mind that you have less control when braking - in many emergency situations I prefer to let go of the brakes and focus on my line

chuckcork

Monty Dog wrote:

I have also known others to ride the earth bankings as they approached the corners too fast - Coombe Bottom is a good one!

Generally, for descents control your speed such that your braking distance is your line of sight until you get to know the roads

Thats a great one, and frightening in that after the first [obvious] hard turn, you can build up quite a bit of speed on the next run down, until that sudden left almost at the bottom that just kind of happens all of a sudden. First time |I did it there was ice all over the place, as I went around that corner my natural desire to cross the centre of the road to make an wider loop around the corner at a shallower angle and without leaning over.

Good thing I didn't as a Volvo came around the corner at the same moment! rather frightening, didn't knwo what was going to happen, but obviously made it around without going through the windscreen.

Much more fun in the dry...

synchronicity

There are lots of 20% + narrow streets here in the North of Tenerife.

My secret is to lean back over the back wheel. I then lock the nose of the saddle between my thighs. That helps with weight balance so you won't go over the bars should you need to brake hard.

I have to agree that most road brake calipers are pretty pathetic. For that reason I normally prefer to go down these types of roads with a DH type of bike with 8 or 9" disc rotors.

I've also been testing out my vertebrae ceramic housing on some of these uber steep streets and I'm 100% convinced that it provides increased power and modulation for any type of cable operated brakes (v-brakes, dual-pivots, single-pivots, cantilevers, etc). :twisted:

roger_merriman

road brakes aren't great but they still should be more than enought to stop the bike down 30% and more hills, the danger with the surrey lanes is that they aren't that quiet really so if you ride faster than your brakes/tires can cope with soon rather than later you'll be in the hedge or worse.

PostieJohn

Your back brake isn't going to stop you. Not quickly, anyway.
Get your weight as far back as you can on the bike and control your speed with the front brake, you'll naturally use the back brake if you feel the bike running away from you.

Knowing your descent is the only way to win.
Eventually you'll know where you can ease off the brakes, and where you have to be careful.

andrewjoseph

Knowing the route is useful, but you can't know what's around the next bend. You either hope it's clear or slow down to manage better. I'd rather slow down.

DomPro

It comes down to confidence I would say. Confidence in your brakes, the road surface and tyre grip, and keeping your mind clear of bad thoughts. As others have said, keep your weight low and far back with your hands over the brakes on the drop bars - for extra leverage. Oh, and practice.

dombo6

I ride around there a lot. 4x4s (Surrey Tractors) are a problem (I'm not bashing them per se) in that they are wider than average cars and often being new and shiny and north of fifty grand their drivers tend to like a lot of space each side so hog the centre.
Without radar or closed roads the only thing to do is ride the brakes and look well ahead. There are a few good swoopy downhills to enjoy - the 21% near Cranleigh levels out nice and straight, and several fast stretches off Leith and Holmbury.

eh

Shimano 105 is decent stuff you should be able to stop fine with them. However, you do need to get your weight back so you can use the front brake properly.

Also a few cyclocross skills can help in dire situations. I once avoided a car by going up a hugh grass bank such that my wheels were almost higher than the car, but I was still less than a foot to its side. Then once past the car I calmly dropped back down and onto the road. Great buzz after but definitly not something I'd recommend doing again.

vorsprung

Have brakes that will stop you

Like josephandrew said above "Ride at a speed so that you can stop within the distance you can see"

Pedals at 3 o'clock / 9 o'clock "level" and heels down a little

Learn to bunny hop potholes

Beware of gravel. One time I was coming down a fast hill in Wales, "picked a line" as I approched the corner and then realised at the last moment that there was so much gravel any braking or steering would make me fall off. I cut the corner, did a 2' jump ( on a road bike) and lived to tell the tale but I don't want to do that again.

Brake more than you would think necessary for corners on hills you don't know. Too fast= prang. Too slow= pedal to speed up again

Hannibalbiker

There is all this talk on brakes. If used properly with your weight pushed back over the rear wheel you should have no problem with stopping by using the front brake. Just do not let it lock up as a skidding wheel will continue to accelerate and you will not have control. Feather the brakes.
To prevent or reduce the need to slam on the brakes remember to use ALL of your senses. If you cannot see the road your ears will tell you if something is coming either behind or in front of you. Listen for vehicles, children or horses. Also look well ahead and try to anticipate blind spots so that you can check ahead for oncoming vehicles. The other thing is to look for possible escape routes into driveways, fields etc. Ride proactively and sensibly and you can survive.
There is plenty of opportunity to put your descending skills into practice here in the Italian Alps

Cubic

Thanks for all the advice and tips, very helpful as always. I'm going to get my brakes checked out at the LBS just to make sure they're ok and will upgrade the pads. I think I really need to feel more confident in my brakes to be a bit less nervous on the steep descents!