lightest 15" hardtail for very light rider?
jsussex
Posts: 118
Hi all,
I need to buy my 11 yr old a decent hardtail so he can keep up with us on the climbs. He currently has a 15" 08 Kona Coilair, nice going down but no fun going up, in fact I have to push the little sod. I bought him this because he wanted a stinky, and I though this was the compromise, but its just too beefy for him to pedal up. We're going to keep it but we need something else.
My 13 yr old has a 15.5" trek ex9 but I think its still a bit heavy, so,..I think a hardtail would be the cheapest way of getting my youngest following us up the hills - thing is, which one? Doesnt necessarily need the best fork because clearly he doesnt have the weight to fully compress them anyway, and the brakes dont need to be juicy carbon becuase they dont have to stop so much weight either. What I really want is ultra light!
there are so many bikes out there, I have no clue so I am asking you guys and gals. Is there a bike around 20lb out there for a realistic price?
I need to buy my 11 yr old a decent hardtail so he can keep up with us on the climbs. He currently has a 15" 08 Kona Coilair, nice going down but no fun going up, in fact I have to push the little sod. I bought him this because he wanted a stinky, and I though this was the compromise, but its just too beefy for him to pedal up. We're going to keep it but we need something else.
My 13 yr old has a 15.5" trek ex9 but I think its still a bit heavy, so,..I think a hardtail would be the cheapest way of getting my youngest following us up the hills - thing is, which one? Doesnt necessarily need the best fork because clearly he doesnt have the weight to fully compress them anyway, and the brakes dont need to be juicy carbon becuase they dont have to stop so much weight either. What I really want is ultra light!
there are so many bikes out there, I have no clue so I am asking you guys and gals. Is there a bike around 20lb out there for a realistic price?
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Comments
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Same as any other adult bike - to get to that weight is going to cost well over a grand!
Maybe fit a rigid fork, single chainring, race tyres to a bike?0 -
supersonic wrote:Same as any other adult bike - to get to that weight is going to cost well over a grand!
Maybe fit a rigid fork, single chainring, race tyres to a bike?
I dont mind spending over a grand at all, just dont want to go stupid money0 -
Scott Scale 30 is one of the lightest off the peg hardtails less than 2k (1750), that comes in about 22.5lbs. Not sure of the smallest size though. Is the lightest hardtail frame available though. I think you have to spend 4 grand to get a Scale off the peg below 20lbs mind.
Giant carbon frames are pretty light too:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... Suspension
But unsure of overall weight.
Alloy frames will be heavier, but the kit could turn out lighter. One of the main problems is tht the manufacturers hardly ever tell you the all in weight.0 -
supersonic wrote:Scott Scale 30 is one of the lightest off the peg hardtails less than 2k (1750), that comes in about 22.5lbs. Not sure of the smallest size though. Is the lightest hardtail frame available though. I think you have to spend 4 grand to get a Scale off the peg below 20lbs mind.
Giant carbon frames are pretty light too:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... Suspension
But unsure of overall weight.
Alloy frames will be heavier, but the kit could turn out lighter. One of the main problems is tht the manufacturers hardly ever tell you the all in weight.
That xtc looks like a nice spec for £1100, do you know what the weight of that bike is?0 -
Unfortunately not, but I'll do some searching!0
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Now that we are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves. ROMANS 15:10
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Whytepeak wrote:
yeh, nice but I think 15 or 15.5" is max0 -
Now that we are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves. ROMANS 15:10
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Whytepeak wrote:
so back to the Q from before then, what is the weight of this bike, with or without pedals?0 -
£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.0
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+1SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
surely at 11 its better for him to exercise his muscles and get them built up. sounds like your trying to make everything a little too easy for him.
Unless he's planning on racing the bike, anything over £600 is completely crazy in my mind...
He's gonna grow out of it in 8 months!0 -
Oh. from what I can gather, looking at the published weights of this years Giants, the older one in the link is about 23-24lbs.0
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SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
well i hear you but I do have an ulterior motive, me 13 yr olds wants to race xc and the hardtail will be a good alternative for him too.0 -
bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
surely at 11 its better for him to exercise his muscles and get them built up. sounds like your trying to make everything a little too easy for him.
Unless he's planning on racing the bike, anything over £600 is completely crazy in my mind...
He's gonna grow out of it in 8 months!
I disagree, a 15" is a bit big for him but I dont want to buy a kids bike, and he'll be ok on it until maybe 15 or older. Hell, even a 6 fter can ride a 15" although they may looka bit odd
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Still... its alot of cash. what if he tries it and doesn't enjoy it (like most teens). your be out of pocket by £1200.
i'm sure you could find a more than capable bike for £800.
Again, a 13yo isn't going to stay the same height for long.....0 -
jsussex wrote:bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
surely at 11 its better for him to exercise his muscles and get them built up. sounds like your trying to make everything a little too easy for him.
Unless he's planning on racing the bike, anything over £600 is completely crazy in my mind...
He's gonna grow out of it in 8 months!
I disagree, a 15" is a bit big for him but I dont want to buy a kids bike, and he'll be ok on it until maybe 15 or older. Hell, even a 6 fter can ride a 15" although they may looka bit odd
take it form me, a 6fter can't ride a 15" XC bike!! 0 -
so back to the Q from before then, what is the weight of this bike, with or without pedals?
Realistically I'd guess at about 24lbs. I don't think you'll find 20lbs for that price.
The main issue is the wheels, the Giant has a nice wheelset, not amazingly light though. While you can get a 1500g frame, 400-500g tyres, 200g seatposts, 150g bars, racing saddles etc for reasonably cheap. Getting a bike down to 20lbs requires all the components to be fairly focused on being very light weight.
For wheels this means 1400-1500g wheelsets, these generally come in £350-£600 alone.
Here's a 20lb bike for reference:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/scale-limited-9301
Note the skinny fork, tiny tyres and invisible saddle.
- Comparing to the Giant listed, the frame is a couple of hundred grams lighter already.
- The old bendy noodly Sid fork is 200g lighter than the Fox F80.
- Crossmax SLR wheels are about 1520g, I'd bet this is 300-400g or so lighter than the Giants wheelset.
- 120g extra on the 2.1" Small Block 8 tyres over the Scott OXYD tyres.
- £160 (170g) seatpost on the Scott, Giant own brand on the Giant.
- Quite a bit heftier SRAM 970 cassette on the Giant etc.
20lbs is a number that gets knocked around quite often, Realistically though, with a decent suspension fork and decent set of tyres it's hard to hit though. Stick some carbon rigid forks, singlespeed gearing and Maxxis Maxxlite 310 tyres and it's easy. It depends how much you want to cheat :P
You get diminshing returns with bike parts, as a rough example this might go:
£500 - 30lbs
£750 - 26lbs
£1000 - 24lbs
£1500 - 23lbs
£2000 - 22lbs0 -
I think 20lbs maybe pushing it a bit - some pro racers bikes are more than that (inc hardtails!).
My advice would be to get a bike with a light frame like the Scale (and some good parts), then invest in it over time if you relly want that weight goal. I don't think a front sus bike at 20lbs with a full gearset can be done for say 1.5k.0 -
bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
surely at 11 its better for him to exercise his muscles and get them built up. sounds like your trying to make everything a little too easy for him.
Unless he's planning on racing the bike, anything over £600 is completely crazy in my mind...
He's gonna grow out of it in 8 months!
Yeh I know, but now my 13yr and I go out for long rides b4 he goes to school plus weekend rides too, he can ride big hills and keep up with me on my remedy 9 (I know, i love it but in hindsight an ex would have been so more suitable, but hey, its better exercise!). So I dont want to leave the youngest behind, so he need a super light.frankly i dont give a crap about the money, as long as its under 2k ish. Money is so not a big deal, we all die in the end
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jsussex wrote:bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
surely at 11 its better for him to exercise his muscles and get them built up. sounds like your trying to make everything a little too easy for him.
Unless he's planning on racing the bike, anything over £600 is completely crazy in my mind...
He's gonna grow out of it in 8 months!
Yeh I know, but now my 13yr and I go out for long rides b4 he goes to school plus weekend rides too, he can ride big hills and keep up with me on my remedy 9 (I know, i love it but in hindsight an ex would have been so more suitable, but hey, its better exercise!). So I dont want to leave the youngest behind, so he need a super light.frankly i dont give a crap about the money, as long as its under 2k ish. Money is so not a big deal, we all die in the end
Credit crunch anyone?
You do know that it is physically normal for an 11 year old to be weaker than teenagers and parents right? why don't you just slow down and let his riding develop?0 -
Toasty et al, (cant post all your names 'cos I cant see them in this reply window!)
Many thanks for you advice, looks like the best option is the giant carbon hardtail. really appreciate your ground work here! ty ty0 -
Then you're severely over estimating the difference of a light frame in my opinion :? If you said he was trying to lop 0.5 seconds of his lap time it might make more sense. If he's not fit enough it'll make next to no difference.
If he's not built like a racer a racers bike is going to be hideously uncomfortable, unforgiving and stretched as well. Would he not be better on a light full sus? I know I'd certainly go faster on a light full sus than a 20lb hardtail. Something like an Anthem X? A lot of racers are swapping over to full sus now, it's not always slower.0 -
jsussex wrote:Toasty et al, (cant post all your names 'cos I cant see them in this reply window!)
Many thanks for you advice, looks like the best option is the giant carbon hardtail. really appreciate your ground work here! ty ty
hehe, it's ok Hope he enjoys it, I wouldn't get too caught up on the "20lbs" number, it really is an extreme. Take this no holds barred, way over £3000 example:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/pro-bike-todd-wells-gt-zaskar-carbon-16131
He didn't quite make the 20lb bracket 0 -
bigbenj_08 wrote:jsussex wrote:bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1SuperMonkey wrote:£1200 on a (second) bike for an 11 year old!? Don't mean to speak out of turn or tell you how to spend your money but that seems like a hellava lot to me. Surely you could find a hard tail that's capable of being biked up a hill by a youngster for a lot lot less than that. Why 20lbs? I would have thought that any fairly light £300 hard tail would suffice? Just the fact that's it's a hard tail is going to help with climbing anyway.
surely at 11 its better for him to exercise his muscles and get them built up. sounds like your trying to make everything a little too easy for him.
Unless he's planning on racing the bike, anything over £600 is completely crazy in my mind...
He's gonna grow out of it in 8 months!
Yeh I know, but now my 13yr and I go out for long rides b4 he goes to school plus weekend rides too, he can ride big hills and keep up with me on my remedy 9 (I know, i love it but in hindsight an ex would have been so more suitable, but hey, its better exercise!). So I dont want to leave the youngest behind, so he need a super light.frankly i dont give a crap about the money, as long as its under 2k ish. Money is so not a big deal, we all die in the end
Credit crunch anyone?
You do know that it is physically normal for an 11 year old to be weaker than teenagers and parents right? why don't you just slow down and let his riding develop?
honestly.he can handle it. he was doing 25 miles on marin hardtail at 7, but anyway, this is a Q about lightweight 15" ish hardtails generally not so much about kids0 -
+1Toasty wrote:Then you're severely over estimating the difference of a light frame in my opinion :? If you said he was trying to lop 0.5 seconds of his lap time it might make more sense. If he's not fit enough it'll make next to no difference.
If he's not built like a racer a racers bike is going to be hideously uncomfortable, unforgiving and stretched as well. Would he not be better on a light full sus? I know I'd certainly go faster on a light full sus than a 20lb hardtail. Something like an Anthem X? A lot of racers are swapping over to full sus now, it's not always slower.
why don't you let the kid choose his own bike... one that actually fits him?0 -
He does have an EX9 - I can see why a hardtail would be a nice adjunct to that!0
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So the coilair weighs ~36lbs, and you want a 20lbs race hardtail - just let him demo a few bikes that are intended for his needs, not Oli Beckingsale's :roll:
A Gt Avalanche Expert would be a good bet. You can get a race bike for the youngster when he is old enough to ride it competatively.
Or you could let him ride at his own pace, there are always the slow ones in a group.Now that we are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves. ROMANS 15:10 -
Sorry, Coilair, tis other one who has a Ex9!0
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bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1Toasty wrote:Then you're severely over estimating the difference of a light frame in my opinion :? If you said he was trying to lop 0.5 seconds of his lap time it might make more sense. If he's not fit enough it'll make next to no difference.
If he's not built like a racer a racers bike is going to be hideously uncomfortable, unforgiving and stretched as well. Would he not be better on a light full sus? I know I'd certainly go faster on a light full sus than a 20lb hardtail. Something like an Anthem X? A lot of racers are swapping over to full sus now, it's not always slower.
why don't you let the kid choose his own bike... one that actually fits him?
ok thats a really good point, but how do I find out? he said he loved the stinky and I knew he couldn't pedal it uphill, so I bought him a Coilair. He can ride it downhill amazingly, (full body armour and FF helmet of course) and hes just about to start the little ripper races if I can get up early enough ojn a Saturday, but he also wants to come on xc rides.
If he chose his own bike it would probably be an iron horse sunday whatever. So, take the point about the full suss, I was just thinking that a hardtail is the lightest and most rideable up hill for him.0 -
jsussex wrote:bigbenj_08 wrote:
+1Toasty wrote:Then you're severely over estimating the difference of a light frame in my opinion :? If you said he was trying to lop 0.5 seconds of his lap time it might make more sense. If he's not fit enough it'll make next to no difference.
If he's not built like a racer a racers bike is going to be hideously uncomfortable, unforgiving and stretched as well. Would he not be better on a light full sus? I know I'd certainly go faster on a light full sus than a 20lb hardtail. Something like an Anthem X? A lot of racers are swapping over to full sus now, it's not always slower.
why don't you let the kid choose his own bike... one that actually fits him?
ok thats a really good point, but how do I find out? he said he loved the stinky and I knew he couldn't pedal it uphill, so I bought him a Coilair. He can ride it downhill amazingly, (full body armour and FF helmet of course) and hes just about to start the little ripper races if I can get up early enough ojn a Saturday, but he also wants to come on xc rides.
If he chose his own bike it would probably be an iron horse sunday whatever. So, take the point about the full suss, I was just thinking that a hardtail is the lightest and most rideable up hill for him.
I agree. One of the main complaints I had when working selling bikes was the sheer weight of bikes for kids and youths. A light hardtail is all many need for a day out in the hills. While I think 20lbs is impossible with your budget, 23 or 24lbs is easily done and will be a great ride.
But it is important to try a few out to tailor that size and riding position.0
