Help me buy the Ultimate Hardtail!

Father Faff

I've got the ultimate full-suss (Meta 5, no arguments please) but now need the ultimate hardtail to go with it. Please note that this is NOT a FS v. HT debate, more of a HT v. HT debate.

What I really, really want is an all-round XC machine. 25lbs would be good. Has to be comfortable for all day long-distance off road riding but able to take reasonably technical terrain. Good climber, good descender, fast, top kit. Probably put a QR15 Fox RLC 140mm on the front but may go down to 120mm. Hope hubs with DT Swiss rims, BB, mini Hope or Formula brakes, XT chainset, light seatpost/bars, Mountain King tyres.

To get the comfort rules out aluminium so it has to be steel or titanium. I've tried titanium Cove Hummer and an Enigma Ego - great in all respects apart from comfort - far too stiff and jarring a ride. The nearest I've come to the ride I want is my old 80mm MArzocchi Bomber steel-framed Orange P7 which has a supple spring and is surprisingly comfortable for a HT - but its very heavy. Is it possible I could build up a modern P7 frame with lightweight kit and get it down to 25lbs????? (Supersonic will tell you no!)

So any ideas?

toasty

I've got the ultimate full-suss (Meta 5, no arguments please)

No argument from me, I did the same. I wanted the polar opposite to the Meta though, the offer on the carbon frame was around at the right time

I bet you can get a modern P7 to that weight, it's not going to be too meaty a build though. I can't help but wonder if there would be any lighter steel frames about? Cotic Soul or something?

Or if you want the flex without the weight titanium? Titanium On-One while they're still about? Titanium Commencal Flame if any are about? Going a bit xc maybe.

Failing that, lock out the rear travel on your Meta. There you have it, instant Ultimate Hardtail! :P

Chaz.Harding

Listen, save yourself a pretty beasty wedge, and get a STEEL On-One. Awesome frame mine is. And light too. Steel, obviously, and with the extra cash (circa 800 QUID!!) Get some MORE upgrades - carbon seatpost (not so much for light-weight, but comfort, but thw Rtichey WCS looks better than ever ay? And carbon bars (again, matching WCS perhaps?) Also, maybe a super light Ti brakeset from Magura?

What you think?

Chaz.Harding

Ok, so re-read your post, maybe NOT WCS, but theres still plenty of other s-weet kit flying about.

Seriously, think about the steel On-One.

supersonic

If after a steel frame the Genesis Altitude 853 has to be worth a look. Reynolds 853 tubes, will take a 130mm fork and weighs 4.6lbs for 350 quid.

Father Faff

Yes, having tried the titanium bikes I'm thinking why not try and find a reasonably light comfortable steel frame and with the money I've saved from not going titanium bling it up with ultralight (but not weedy light) on the build kit.

Father Faff

OK give me some steel frames I should consider....and if you know the weights let me know!

In fact I reckon a good resource on Bike Radar would be a "Bike Builder" and you could build your chosen frame with popular kit and it would calculate the weight for you (and perhaps RRP as well, although I don't suppose anyone pays RRP these days!).

blister pus

Detail: http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul

Review: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... l-07-21294

toasty

Steel bikes look so hungry

Soul Boy

Come on, become a Soul Brother!

I've come from a P7, a bit prematurely thanks to a bodged BB replacement by Cycle Surgery, but wouldn't look back.

I run with a pair of 100mm Manitou Minutes up front, but it can easily handle 130mm.

I ride Swinley regularly, just come back from Afan and spent a week in Les Arc last year, all on the Soul, nah bother.

....just don't get the black with Cotic wrap, please.

The Spiderman

Genesis Altitude 30 ,out of the box is 26lbs.So with some lighter finishing kit ,wheels and tyres it could be 25lbs....
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bike/altitude_30

Father Faff

Could be up for a bit of Soul! Can you expand a bit in what way you prefer the Soul to the P7?

Ta much.

ashfanman

Charge Duster steel: http://www.bikepedlar.co.uk/acatalog/Ch ... rames.html
£320

Available in Ti for £1,200.

ride_whenever

I;d wait a while for the new lynskey Ti long travel hardtail. That's what i'm getting to replace my 456 with...

eddyesi

Cove Hummer
Cotic Soda
Whyte 19trail Ti
Pace RC305 - try before you give up on ally, rips better then the above if not qute as all day comfy, but with fat tyres and carbon bits its not as bad as you may think

I am waiting for a decent 120mm+ carbon frame to replace my Pace, Ibis Tranny is the only contender, but not keen on the split rear end :shock:

Father Faff

I've tried a Cove Hummer - great machine but you'd die riding it all day. I suspect the Whyte and the Pace will both be equally stiff at the rear. I need a supple rear otherwise I just won't ride it. I have the full susser for the hooligan stuff but need a hardtail for lightweight, all day exploring, a it of Open 5 Adventure type races, commuting on/off road but also capable of the odd bit of rocky technical ground like you get in Scotland/Lakes/Dales without falling flat on its face. The Orange P7 is near perfect in all respects but a tad on the heavy side.

Soul Boy

Hi there,

The P7 was grand, I had much fun on it, but the Soul just seems a little more 'alive'.

I think its down to the tubing, 853 allowing them to make the tubing thinner. I've always rode steel and this bike is the first to give me that fabled steel feel.

Afan was a breeze, got some real speed up on The Wall, Penhydd was a breeze and did Whites level including the Black route loop. She took it all in her stride.

It was funny last year loading the Soul into the chairlift at Les Arc, with others loading up their FS monsters, then chasing them down the mountain. I was suprised at how well she coped.

As mentioned I run with 100mm, but would love to try 130mm with a through axle. Run with a double ring and bash and you have a do it all machine.

This frame has got rave reviews whenever tested.

this is a quote from Dirts "The Worlds Greatest Mountain Bike Products 2009"

"Cy Turner has managed to steer a thin line through the geometry minefield that surrounds hardtail bikes to produce what is probably the best all-round hardtail bike available. Fantastically balanced, up for attack, it is light and beautifully made out of classy Reynolds 853. Carries a 120mm fork as well as speed, it goes up, down, along and across - the Soul simply plays the right tune wherever you go. For a bike all about razzing around the woods look no further." http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/archive2008

Of course theres others out there, but........

Northwind

Yeah, I'ev got a test ride booked on the soul next weekend, it's one of the few frames I wanted more than my On One, it could still tempt me away...

Father Faff

Where can I test ride a Soul????

blister pus

http://demodays.bikeradar.com/bike.php? ... event_id=8

Would have been Glentress on the 5th according to that, but i don't think there's a medium available left to try.


I would contact Cotic and have a chat: http://www.cotic.co.uk/contact/

Soul Boy

+1

Give Cy a call, sure he'd be happy to help, he's that sort of guy.

I love it, it just feels right.

supersonic

SOul also one of the lightest steel frames available too.

blakef111

kinesis maxlight Pha5e or maxlight xc>120

http://kinesisbikes.co.uk/prodintro.php?pt=Maxlight

the pha5e will take anything you throw at it and the xc>120 which i have is brilliant, i run it at 130mm travel and weighs 10.7 kg

Northwind

It also looks great 8)

blakef111

mine or xc>120's in general?

supersonic

The XC120 is one of the best value frames on the market.

Father Faff

I can't imagine any Alu bike will have the rear end suppleness I require so I think Alu is out of the equation.

blister pus

What you want there, ideally, is the Carbon XC Pro II - 120 ...but they don't make one. I keep meaning to email Kinesis to see if they have any plans in the pipeline for one. If such a thing existed It could well nose to the top of my list.

Anonymous

How about a Ti frame?

I cannot say exactly as forum rules dictate otherwise, but i 'may' have an ex demo 18" Brodie Cruzado Ti frame for sale.