Handbuilt wheels - excellight rims on PMP hubs

jenko66

Decided I would like to invest in a decent set of handbuilt wheels and after some considerable research have decided on Excellight rims on PMP hubs with DT revs from Paul Hewitt. I have asked for 28H up front and 28H on rear. I weigh 80 kg (though do get down to 75 Kg in summer) and will use them for all round use and sportive rides. I live in the Lakes and 90% of my rides take in a least one pass (usually 2) so was concerned about reducing weight where possible. I've never been hard on wheels but wondering if 28H rear is enough or should I really go up to 32 ???

nickwill

Go with Paul's advice. He won't want to sell you anything he's not happy with.
He's one of the most honest people in the business!

Monty Dog

28 spokes will be fine on the rear, but Paul will probably suggest you need DB spokes on the drive side - DT Revs are very stretchy and don't tend to hold the tension as well and so the wheels need more attention to keep them tensioned. If you're using them all year, also suggest you don't go for alloy nipples - just had some DT ones go 'pop' under the nipple head due to corrosion/stress cracking - now replaced with brass

dennisn

Monty Dog wrote:

28 spokes will be fine on the rear, but Paul will probably suggest you need DB spokes on the drive side - DT Revs are very stretchy and don't tend to hold the tension as well and so the wheels need more attention to keep them tensioned. If you're using them all year, also suggest you don't go for alloy nipples - just had some DT ones go 'pop' under the nipple head due to corrosion/stress cracking - now replaced with brass

+1 ON BRASS

Dennis Noward

Courage Monsieur

Sound interesting and I'm looking to upgrade my wheels. Can I ask how much they were so I know whether to consider them?

jenko66

Monty Dog wrote:

28 spokes will be fine on the rear, but Paul will probably suggest you need DB spokes on the drive side - DT Revs are very stretchy and don't tend to hold the tension as well and so the wheels need more attention to keep them tensioned. If you're using them all year, also suggest you don't go for alloy nipples - just had some DT ones go 'pop' under the nipple head due to corrosion/stress cracking - now replaced with brass

Your right Monty, Paul did suggest DB on drive. Although we didnt discuss lacing pattern, I will leave it up to him as the expert....I'm out of my comfort zone when getting onto the pros and cons of x2 or x3, radial etc

jenko66

Courage Monsieur wrote:

Sound interesting and I'm looking to upgrade my wheels. Can I ask how much they were so I know whether to consider them?

£520....pricey I know. Although you can get the components cheaper on line, decided to go with Pauls reputation as a top wheelbuilder. Was a close call between PMP and Royce hubs, however, since I wanted black hubs and Royce charge about £35 extra for non-silver hubs, then went for PMP. What few reviews there are on PMP seem to be good. Lets hope I will have no probs getting replacement bearings if/when needed in future.

Hope this has helped with the decision making process.

maddog 2

Paul's built a similar wheelset for me in the past - DT revs all round except DT DB on the rear driveside. He sometimes goes brass nipples on the driveside too, to get enough tension, as suggested.

I almost went for the same build recently (Excellights on PMP) but went for the cheaper Hope pro3s in the end.

Yours will be a very nice setup.

jenko66

maddog 2 wrote:

Paul's built a similar wheelset for me in the past - DT revs all round except DT DB on the rear driveside. He sometimes goes brass nipples on the driveside too, to get enough tension, as suggested.

I almost went for the same build recently (Excellights on PMP) but went for the cheaper Hope pro3s in the end.

Yours will be a very nice setup.

Did you go for 28 h f & r or 32 h ?? I'm just a bit concerned that the thin excellight rims might be better suited to a higher spoke count given my weight. Not sure if I actually dealt with Paul as it was my first visit. A small thin chap dealt with me and the choice of spoke count was very much down to me preferring as lower count as possible to save weight rather than him advising me on what would be best. I want a light wheel but it must be stiff enough to avoid brake rub when in these steep lakeland passes. Read quuite a few forum posts that say that someone of my weight should go fo 32 h f&r.......CONFUSED !!!

maddog 2

The smaller bloke is probably Gethin Butler - holder of the LEJOG record for a normal bike (44hours!). Paul is older, maybe 40-odd I guess.

I went for 28h f+r and I'm 12-12.5 stone, depending on the time of year. You could go 32h on the rear if you want a slightly stiffer/burlier setup, but 28 should be fine for the front. I'm picking them up in the next few days so we'll see how they ride

dennisn

jenko66 wrote:

maddog 2 wrote:

Paul's built a similar wheelset for me in the past - DT revs all round except DT DB on the rear driveside. He sometimes goes brass nipples on the driveside too, to get enough tension, as suggested.

I almost went for the same build recently (Excellights on PMP) but went for the cheaper Hope pro3s in the end.

Yours will be a very nice setup.

Did you go for 28 h f & r or 32 h ?? I'm just a bit concerned that the thin excellight rims might be better suited to a higher spoke count given my weight. Not sure if I actually dealt with Paul as it was my first visit. A small thin chap dealt with me and the choice of spoke count was very much down to me preferring as lower count as possible to save weight rather than him advising me on what would be best. I want a light wheel but it must be stiff enough to avoid brake rub when in these steep lakeland passes. Read quuite a few forum posts that say that someone of my weight should go fo 32 h f&r.......CONFUSED !!!

I would go for 32 spokes. I'm a heavier rider so I really don't see the point in less spokes.
Now if I manage to lose those extra pounds I'm carrying I might consider going
with a lesser spoke count but having 15 or so excessive pounds hanging around I
don't see how 4 less spokes in a wheel will make any difference at all.

Dennis Noward

wjws

Paul built me some pmp hubs with open pro rims - absolutely no regrets whatsoever. I'm very happy with them.

Will

jenko66

maddog 2 wrote:

The smaller bloke is probably Gethin Butler - holder of the LEJOG record for a normal bike (44hours!). Paul is older, maybe 40-odd I guess.

I went for 28h f+r and I'm 12-12.5 stone, depending on the time of year. You could go 32h on the rear if you want a slightly stiffer/burlier setup, but 28 should be fine for the front. I'm picking them up in the next few days so we'll see how they ride

So that was Gethin Butler eh ?? I remember doin a 200K Audax ride at Corwen about 10 years ago where Gethin used it at a training ride. Truely frightening how far ahead he was ahead of the likes of me within a matter of a a couple of hours. You could see him flying round Lake Bala.

Happy with the idea of 28H front but will ring Paul tomorrow for advice on the rear. If I go with 32 H rear, they have both hubs in stock so will be able to get on with lacing the wheels up. If stick with 28 Hr on with you rear, will have to be patient.

Let me know how you get on with your new wheels...keen to hear

maddog 2

Paul is a good source of info, and will tell you the situation straight, I'm sure of that. But for £520, make sure you're completely happy with the build. I'm pretty sure he has 32h PMPs in stock, and they've just had a shipment of excellights, as I spoke to him today.