Carbon Fibre and the riders weight?

DonDaddyD

So in conclusion at 15st + I have nothing to fear if I should purchase a carbon fibre frame beyond making sure its a relatively decent/good quality (mass produced) frame.

DonDaddyD

So in conclusion at 15st + I have nothing to fear if I should purchase a carbon fibre frame beyond making sure its a relatively decent/good quality (mass produced) frame.

Bassjunkieuk

DonDaddyD wrote:

So in conclusion at 15st + I have nothing to fear if I should purchase a carbon fibre frame beyond making sure its a relatively decent/good quality (hand made in Italy) frame.

Fixed that for ya ;-)

Quite an interesting thread as I'd also like to own a CF bike one day! In a similar boat to DDD in that I've been bitten by the bike bug and want a machine more fitting to my aspirations :-)
Thankfully I think I fall into the "light and strong" category so I'd be more concerned with a stiff frame! TBH I never even realized that it was possible to bend or deflect a bike frame but having tried pushing down on a single pedal on my existing bike I was quite surprised how easy it was to move the BB around - although quite what I was expecting I'm not sure, it's not exactly an exotic machine, but as my wife said "It might be a mediocre bike, but you ride it well!" This was nice as it shows she thinks I'm a good rider and leaves the door open for me to upgrade in the future :-D

wgwarburton

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

So in conclusion at 15st + I have nothing to fear if I should purchase a carbon fibre frame beyond making sure its a relatively decent/good quality (hand made in Italy) frame.

Fixed that for ya ;-)

? You have got to be kidding!

You got me there, TBH! I actually thought you were serious for a while :-)

Cheers,
W.

bigease

Always interesting to read these threads.

At 17st I definately qualify as a heavy rider. I have a Trek Madone CF Bike and have not had any problems with the frame breaking over the last 3000 miles or so, alhtough I am sure that my weight will probably shorten the life of the frame.

I keep pushing on to try and lose mor weight, I started at around 19st, and am losing plenty of bulk, but I do believe that the old adage of Muscle being heavy that fat is holding true as I have plateaued at this weight for some time.

girv73

I was looking at CF forks that had a 95Kg rider weight limit, and that put me off them in favour of some steel/cromoly ones. They were cheap though, and the only ones I saw with a limit mentioned. I've never seen a CF frame with a weight limit.

vorsprung

if you weigh 17st then getting a CF bike that saves you a couple of lb in weight isn't going to make a lot of difference. That's less than 1%

And another thing while I'm here. Why on earth are you using a "best bike" for commuting around the year? Your CF trek with Ultegra might be nice to ride but it's going to grind the gears to paste in winter

bigease

I never intended to get a CF bike at all. I had a Trek Pilot 1.2 Ali bike, and the frame broke. They couldn't get me a new frame for the pilot for a few weeks and the LBS offered me a deal on the Madone frame. The offer was very good and so I went for it. At the time this was my only bike so I commuted on it for around 9 months (hence the 3000 miles). i agree that this is not ideal and that is why I now have the Singlecross as a commuter machine, which I love riding as a fixed, and the Madone is kept firmly for best in the nice weather.

It definately nice to have the choice now.

Incidently, i certainly wouldn't go with a CF frame simply to try and save weight, as I am the weakest link in that scenario. Always fancied a Ti bike actually, but as I said the offer on the Madone frame was too good to turn down, and it does ride very nice indeed.

DonDaddyD

In the summer I'm going to commute on my Carbon Fibre bike from time to time. Then the minute it looks as though its going to rain it's getting moth balled in my Gran's shed (I don't have one yet ).

During winter I'm going to ride my Giant SCR 3 into the grave and then replace it with a single speed and then buy another geared bike with 105/Veloce components for summer.

3 bikes. A man can dream!

biondino

Carbon fibre doesn't rust, DDD, it's the perfect wet-weather material! Ride it in the rain! Only preening metrosexuals like Jash refuse to ride good bikes in the rain.

Bassjunkieuk

biondino wrote:

Carbon fibre doesn't rust, DDD, it's the perfect wet-weather material! Ride it in the rain! Only preening metrosexuals like Jash refuse to ride good bikes in the rain.

I dunno, Marlborough was "rather damp" and the Prince was out then. I think at one rest stop Linsen did say she expected to find him laying down over his bike trying to stop it getting wet ;-)
It is in all honesty one of the things I'm dreading when I finally get the money for a decent bike, the upkeep!!

always_tyred

biondino wrote:

Carbon fibre doesn't rust, DDD, it's the perfect wet-weather material! Ride it in the rain! Only preening metrosexuals like Jash refuse to ride good bikes in the rain.

Indeed, since UV radiation is known to degrade epoxy materials you would be advised to only ride your carbon fibre bicycle in overcast conditions, or indoors.

greg66_tri_v2.0

biondino wrote:

Carbon fibre doesn't rust, DDD, it's the perfect wet-weather material! Ride it in the rain! Only preening metrosexuals like Jash refuse to ride good bikes in the rain.

This is the Truth.

I used to be like Jash. But I'm different now. So very different. And special.

nation

biondino wrote:

Carbon fibre doesn't rust, DDD, it's the perfect wet-weather material! Ride it in the rain! Only preening metrosexuals like Jash refuse to ride good bikes in the rain.

I don't realy get the whole "winter bike" thing. Maybe it's my MTB background, but most bike parts aren't that delicate. In fact, the only part I've known to succumb to water and mud was my old front derailleur, which died after several winters living in the muddy spray kicked off the rear wheel. Thinking about it, I have heard that a lot of external bearing BBs aren't very mud-proof either, but I still have ISIS cranks.

I suspect there are roadies that would have a fit if they saw the abuse most MTB components are regularly subjected to.

Bassjunkieuk

The whole "point" of a winter bike is that it rationalizes having 2 bikes :-)
Summer bike HAS to be be better then winter bike.
Once winter bike needs replacing, summer bike get demoted to winter duties and a new better bike is purchased :-D

Clever Pun

Greg66 wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

100kg isn't terribly svelte for a cyclist, but I think that Magnus Backsted was well into the 90's and I'm sure that Paris Roubaix underneath a Magnus puts more stress on a bike than Croydon underneath a DDD.

Hmm.

You haven't met DDD, have you? :twisted:

And as for Croydon...

I'm about 95-98kgs but with commuting bag I'm over 100kgs easy... only DDD knows what he's rocking in at

DonDaddyD

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

The whole "point" of a winter bike is that it rationalizes having 2 bikes

+1

I just don't want to ride the carbon bike in the rain or the dead of winter....

I'm about 95-98kgs but with commuting bag I'm over 100kgs easy... only DDD knows what he's rocking in at

15st 8. And a bag. Over the 100kgs easy...

Probably why I can't go a few days without having to re-position my seat post as it always slides down the tube...

wgwarburton

nation wrote:

I don't realy get the whole "winter bike" thing. Maybe it's my MTB background, but most bike parts aren't that delicate.

That's not my experience. A couple of winters is easily enough to cause significant deterioration on a bike- rust on exposed metal (pedal shafts, seatpost bolts etc), rims black with grime, spokes dull, brake calipers sticky, powertrain running rough. Then there's the knocks and general wear and tear that comes from daily (ab)use.

I found that keeping a geared bike in "nice" condition to enjoy riding wasn't compatible with daily winter use- the time and expense of replacing parts was excessive and I felt I was wasting the bike. Better to have something cheap and cheerful that you don't care too much about, then it doesn't matter if it gets trashed.

Different if you want to replace a bike every few years anyway, but I for one prefer to take a longer view- my touring bike is built round my fathers classic 531 frame, which he bought when he was demobbed in 1948.

Begs the question- how long do you expect a bike to last? I'm probably expecting 5-10 years from a winter hack, but I don't see why the other bikes shouldn't last a decent length of time.

Cheers,
W.

prawny

Just re the longetivity issue I have a carbon/kevlar kayak that's been dropped on weirs dragged along tow paths and generally abused since the mid 80's (owned by me since '98) still going strong the clear gel coat isn't so clear anymore but it's still water tight.

My paddles are carbon and they've been going fine with no issue's since '97 and taken more abuse and obviously been subjected to more torque than the boat.

Roastie

Greg66 wrote:

EDIT: I'm struggling to think of a frame - CF or otherwise - with a rider weight limit. Anyone? Wheels are a different matter. Quite a few there.

IIRC, the first generation Scott Addict frames had a rider weight limit...

Roastie

crankycrank wrote:

The beauty of CF is that it can be built to support as little or as much weight as needed.

Hmmm ... And steel, and aluminium, and titanium, ...

As has already been aluded to on this thread by Always' and others, the weight limit for a frame is determined not specifically by the material, but rather by the designer (and the design parameters he/she chooses).

Custom layups can be done with carbon to accomodate heavier riders, or minimise weight for lighter riders, same with other materials - a decent framebuilder working steel/titanium won't use the same tubeset for a bike built for a light rider or a heavy rider, ... etc.

I doubt the design parameters and particularly safety factor chosen for mass produced carbon frames is any different to that for any other material - the design parameters would instead be determined by the intended use.

Roastie

prawny wrote:

My paddles are carbon and they've been going fine with no issue's since '97 and taken more abuse and obviously been subjected to more torque than the boat.

Resilience and strength are two different issues.

always_tyred

Roastiecp wrote:

prawny wrote:

My paddles are carbon and they've been going fine with no issue's since '97 and taken more abuse and obviously been subjected to more torque than the boat.

Resilience and strength are two different issues.

Oh, don't be so hysteresistical.

(God, that pun's even worse than "Always Tyred")

nation

WGWarburton wrote:

nation wrote:

I don't realy get the whole "winter bike" thing. Maybe it's my MTB background, but most bike parts aren't that delicate.

That's not my experience. A couple of winters is easily enough to cause significant deterioration on a bike- rust on exposed metal (pedal shafts, seatpost bolts etc), rims black with grime, spokes dull, brake calipers sticky, powertrain running rough. Then there's the knocks and general wear and tear that comes from daily (ab)use.

I found that keeping a geared bike in "nice" condition to enjoy riding wasn't compatible with daily winter use- the time and expense of replacing parts was excessive and I felt I was wasting the bike. Better to have something cheap and cheerful that you don't care too much about, then it doesn't matter if it gets trashed.

Different if you want to replace a bike every few years anyway, but I for one prefer to take a longer view- my touring bike is built round my fathers classic 531 frame, which he bought when he was demobbed in 1948.

Begs the question- how long do you expect a bike to last? I'm probably expecting 5-10 years from a winter hack, but I don't see why the other bikes shouldn't last a decent length of time.

Cheers,
W.

Are we talking cosmetic damage or things actually wearing out? I honestly don't expect a bike to stay shiny very long.

Mechanically, my MTB has been going for about eight years and all it's really needed are new BB bearings a couple of times, wheel bearing and headset servicing, a front derailleur and cable, brakepads and drivetrain components. The chain, cassette and chainrings are parts with a limited service life anyway, you have to expect that they'll need replacing at some point. I have to say, though, the original Shimano drivetrain parts gave up after a couple of winters, the SRAM parts I replaced them with have lasted a lot better.

Rim brakes I'll acknowledge are probably more vulnerable to the weather, but I haven't used them for years so that's a bit outside my experience (though my new commuter project bike will have them, I'll need to get used to them again).

always_tyred

nation wrote:

Are we talking cosmetic damage or things actually wearing out? I honestly don't expect a bike to stay shiny very long.

Mechanically, my MTB has been going for about eight years and all it's really needed are new BB bearings a couple of times, wheel bearing and headset servicing, a front derailleur and cable, brakepads and drivetrain components. The chain, cassette and chainrings are parts with a limited service life anyway, you have to expect that they'll need replacing at some point. I have to say, though, the original Shimano drivetrain parts gave up after a couple of winters, the SRAM parts I replaced them with have lasted a lot better.

Rim brakes I'll acknowledge are probably more vulnerable to the weather, but I haven't used them for years so that's a bit outside my experience (though my new commuter project bike will have them, I'll need to get used to them again).

Would it be easier to list the moving parts which haven't been replaced yet?

- shifters..... front hub..... brakes..... rims.... most of the rear mech.....

Sounds similar to road bikes to me.

Moomin23

I have an aluminium/Carbon winter bike. The reason I use it as a winter bike is because it's heavier for better grip on the roads and against crosswinds, I can fit full mudguards on it, and as I use it for commuting, I won't be crying and counting the cost when a kn##head in a car runs me over trying to beat me to a red light or traffic jam and then drives off!!

When the weathers nice, I take the nice SCOTT carbon to work and thoroughly enjoy it.

Point is, most serious riders upgrade every couple of years not due to fatigue, but to technology and upgrades, I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to 'wear out' a bike in my life, and that includes my first ever bike, the mighty Grifter!!

Roastie

Always Tyred wrote:

Roastiecp wrote:

Oh, don't be so hysteresistical.

(God, that pun's even worse than "Always Tyred")

You saying I'm a slacker, huh? HUH!

nation

Always Tyred wrote:

nation wrote:

Are we talking cosmetic damage or things actually wearing out? I honestly don't expect a bike to stay shiny very long.

Mechanically, my MTB has been going for about eight years and all it's really needed are new BB bearings a couple of times, wheel bearing and headset servicing, a front derailleur and cable, brakepads and drivetrain components. The chain, cassette and chainrings are parts with a limited service life anyway, you have to expect that they'll need replacing at some point. I have to say, though, the original Shimano drivetrain parts gave up after a couple of winters, the SRAM parts I replaced them with have lasted a lot better.

Rim brakes I'll acknowledge are probably more vulnerable to the weather, but I haven't used them for years so that's a bit outside my experience (though my new commuter project bike will have them, I'll need to get used to them again).

Would it be easier to list the moving parts which haven't been replaced yet?

- shifters..... front hub..... brakes..... rims.... most of the rear mech.....

Sounds similar to road bikes to me.

That's what I mean, the only parts of my bike that have worn out are those that will wear out regardless of whether the bikes ridden in bad weather. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be the same for road bikes.

My point was that I don't think bikes are so delicate that you really need to save your best bike only for those rare dry summer days. What's the point in having it if you don't ride it?

nation

Always Tyred wrote:

nation wrote:

Are we talking cosmetic damage or things actually wearing out? I honestly don't expect a bike to stay shiny very long.

Mechanically, my MTB has been going for about eight years and all it's really needed are new BB bearings a couple of times, wheel bearing and headset servicing, a front derailleur and cable, brakepads and drivetrain components. The chain, cassette and chainrings are parts with a limited service life anyway, you have to expect that they'll need replacing at some point. I have to say, though, the original Shimano drivetrain parts gave up after a couple of winters, the SRAM parts I replaced them with have lasted a lot better.

Rim brakes I'll acknowledge are probably more vulnerable to the weather, but I haven't used them for years so that's a bit outside my experience (though my new commuter project bike will have them, I'll need to get used to them again).

Would it be easier to list the moving parts which haven't been replaced yet?

- shifters..... front hub..... brakes..... rims.... most of the rear mech.....

Sounds similar to road bikes to me.

That's what I mean, the only parts of my bike that have worn out are those that will wear out regardless of whether the bikes ridden in bad weather. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be the same for road bikes.

My point was that I don't think bikes are so delicate that you really need to save your best bike only for those rare dry summer days. What's the point in having it if you don't ride it?

prawny

Roastiecp wrote:

prawny wrote:

My paddles are carbon and they've been going fine with no issue's since '97 and taken more abuse and obviously been subjected to more torque than the boat.

Resilience and strength are two different issues.

I take it you've never done a marathon canoe race? Resilience and strengh are required there are a hell of a lot more scratches cracks and chips in my paddles than I would ever want to see on my bike frame. :?