focus cayo

redvision
redvision Posts: 2,958
edited March 2009 in Road beginners
hi

i got my focus cayo yesterday but i have a concern with the frame.

it looks like it has a liquid or moisture on it in some areas but its actually just the colouring of the frame. i have contacted wiggle and they assure me its normal, just wondering if anyone else has similar??

i know its only cosmetic, but still takes something away from an otherwise excellent bike.
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Comments

  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    Do you mean the carbon weave isn't flawless, or is it paint that's faulty? Seems a poor show if it's the latter, but if you look at even the dearest carbon bikes, there isn't usually a uniformity in the top layer.

    Post a pic if you can. Ultimately if it's just cosmetic it'll probably be more trouble than it's worth to deal with.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    edited March 2009
    pictures on way
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    ok, here is a link the to photos:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/36561596@N04/3370372074/

    as you can see from the pictures it looks like there is a moisture on the frame.

    its really wierd. i know its only cosmetic, just didnt expect it.

    any ideas? should i return it?
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    It doesn't look good to me (though hard to be sure from the photo), it looks like the lacquer has lifted / is not bonded properly. I don't think you should be satisfied because "it's only cosmetic" - if it is intended to look that way, then fair enough, but if it is cosmetically flawed then not. Regardless, Wiggle will take it back even if you just don't like it. It would be good to see another Cayo to make a comparison.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    thanks for your help.

    think i will return it.
  • fnegroni
    fnegroni Posts: 794
    If you are not going to miss it, i.e. you haven't planned a ride, then yes.

    In my experience that is not moisture, it is just the lacquer didn't take to the carbon fibre 100% and will eventually come off. How long before it does, that I don't know. It might never happen.

    If you press with your thumb, can you see the lacquer getting darker?

    If I were you, I would email the pictures to Wiggle and ask for a voucher to spend on accessories.

    I know they say the clear coat protects the carbon from UV rays and all the rest, but I have had several sports items in carbon that were not clear coated, got bashed, and were still intact many years after.

    In my experience clear coating carbon is only cosmetic.

    But others may disagree.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    It doesn't look like a defect to me TBH. Is the 2009 Cayo not part black and part carbon weave, with this being the boundary? My 2008 Cayo (now sold) was all carbon weave, but you can clearly see the line where the layers met here, looks to be in a similar location to your photo:

    th_cayo_05.jpg
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    thanks for the reply

    did your 2008 cayo have the lacquer layer? which looks like a layer of moisture or something (makes you want to keep rubbing it to get it off?)

    i have contacted wiggle. they have been superb, and are happy to take a return or replace it. but they insist that any replacement is likely to be the same as they say its the weave of the carbon.

    not really sure what to do.

    im gonna look tonight at the boardman team carbon. figure that if i can see that carbon frame up close i may be able to judge if i should return the cayo.
  • fnegroni
    fnegroni Posts: 794
    BTW, I forgot to mention that if the carbon surface is not weaved, than it is very likely you are going to get that effect.

    My Easton EC90 SL carbon forks do that. No weave. The EC90 rear stays are weaved and look better.

    From experience Wiggle would not hesitate to let you know if that is a defect. If they say the other Cayo's are similar, they most probably are.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    are they??

    so you think it is a normal thing?

    like i say, i sent the photos to wiggle and they assured me it was normal. just seems to ruin the frame.

    but like you say, the 09 cayo is not weaved, so maybe it is genuine.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    I noticed a bit of that on one of the Boardman frames - I'm sure you'd get used to it, its probably the thinking that its a defect that makes it seem so bad, if you know it isn't it doesn't really matter so much.
  • fnegroni
    fnegroni Posts: 794
    redvision wrote:
    are they??

    so you think it is a normal thing?

    I don't know.

    I think what you should do is post a question in the Workshop forum and ask any '09 cayo owner to post pictures of theirs to match the claim.

    But, if it is bothering you, I would take advantage of Wiggle's offer and ask for a replacement. Worst that can happen is their claim is true and you are a happy bunny again.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    Most carbon frames have a glossy lacquer top layer, not sure if that is what you mean. Parts vary more, I have some forks/seatposts/etc with gloss and some with a matt finish.

    If the carbon is unpainted with or without just a clear layer on top, you will see seams. It's not that you don't have seams with a weave finish, it just maybe is less obvious as the weave has multiple shades. "Naked" carbon is usually just plain black BTW, weave you see is generally laid on top as a cosmetic layer and actually adds a (small) amount of weight.

    From other frames and carbon bits I have seen I would think what you have looks pretty normal. Personally I would not send the bike back based on the photos you posted.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    thats what i keep thinking. im sure its only cosmetic, the frame itself wouldnt be affected.
    its just why is it that when you notice something once it always gets your eye?!!!

    cheers for all the advice though!
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    Looking at those photos, I am pretty sure it's just an inconsistent paint job under the lacquer where two parts meet. Not guaranteeing this, mind, but I am pretty sure it's fine. If, however, you can see obvious flaking or the tube sounds different when you tap it, that would be a concern.
  • Tempestas
    Tempestas Posts: 486
    The 08 Cayo had a 12k weave finished top coat whereas the 09 version is finished with a 'raw' carbon, none of that cosmetic stuff in other words. So the appearance does vary, personally I like the raw finish better.
  • Steveorow
    Steveorow Posts: 162
    red vision....
    I have a Black LOOK 585 Ultra which is exactly the same but these areas like you showed can be seen all over the frame .
    Its down to the unidirectional layer of carbon fibre used ie not weaves but flat sheets and how they are wrapped to achieve particular areas of stiffness or compliance when joined together The effect is normaly present at particular tubes or joints eg round the BB or the Head tube joints or to achieve more compliance or stiffness in specific areas . Doesnt bother me as it cant be seen when speeding along at 20mph :wink: .

    At least thats what LOOK claim but I have seen it other bikes using unidirectional carbon with a clear finish .

    All that said if your not happy with the look no ammount of explanation or reassurance will change your mind so maybe going for a replacement would be the best way forward .
  • I used to work at a car garage and had a few new cars delivered with similar 'milky' finish in black paint. we worked out it was moisture under the surface.

    This was solved by a heat gun used very very gently. Not suggesting you should actually do this but if you wanted a go it would save the hassle of returning it.
  • cyclingpunk
    cyclingpunk Posts: 368
    Seriously would not bother returning it for that! My '08 Cayo has worse than what your photos show and I did not bother. Mine had what lookiled like small air bubbles between the top coat and the carbon.. sounds similar to what you describe. At the end of the day you may return it and get one worse and then Wiggle will be less interested if you ask for yet another one!

    Wait untill you drop your bike, or fall off... you will not notice it then! The way I see it is that it is a cheap(in the world of Carbon) frame... it is not going to be perfect.. even frames that are worth double I would expect some imperfections TBH.

    I also recall a review of an older Cay ('06 I think) that said that the finish was not upto that of some of the pricier frames on test.

    Forget about it and just enjoy the ride ;)
  • My 07 cayo has similar imperfections around the seat stays - nothing untoward has happened to my frame since I noticed it.

    I would not bother sending it back - just enjoy a great bike
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,930
    My new Cayo has a bit of that but not quite as bad. Been on a few rides though and it's a joy to ride so I'm not in the least bit concerned.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    went to halfords today and looked at the boardman carbon for the same price. no such issues with that one.

    i am returning the cayo to wiggle. felt that whilst it may not be a construction weakness, when you pay a grand for something (even if it is a bottom end carbon frame) you expect to feel you have value for money. this particular bike, in my opinion, was not.

    thanks for all the advice though!

    can anyone recommend an alternative bike to get? anyone have a boardman carbon? are they as good as the bikeradar review says?
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Looks rather normal to me....
    I like bikes...

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  • I've an 07 Cayo and that has a laquer finish over the weave. Mine has odd areas where the laquer has 'bubbled' but it has not deteriorated nor has it affected the structural quality of the bike. They are fantastic bikes. Took mine out for the first time since October and it was a joy to ride after the winter bike. Quick, sure-footed handling, good at transferring power to the road and comfortable. I'd think twice about swapping it for another bike.
  • I have a 2008 cayo,love it sorry to see you give the bike back to wiggle.But if you feel that unhappy about it them it is the right move for you.How ever it will be very hard to find find a bike with the same performance as the cayo at this price range.My bike is frame is perfect,and if i saw what you had seem on your bike i would proberly return it as well.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    What you can see is the carbon layup under the clear laquer finish coat. My Trek Madone 5.2 has it but not as pronounced. You can see it from some directions but not others. Fairly normal for frames with translucent laquer and no decorative weave.
  • cyclingpunk
    cyclingpunk Posts: 368
    Surely you decided and purchased the bike with actually riding it in mind? Not being funny but unless a frame is damaged or scratched sending it back seems a waste of time. In time the frame will suffer from use anyway so unless you are just going to sit and look at the bike in your front room, wash it every time you use it, and scrtanise every inch after every ride...keep it. Actually take it for a ride... surely thats what bikes are for?

    The Cayo is a great bike for the money and I would rather have my Cayo with a few imperfections on it than a 'perfect' boardman any day of the week. Just my 2ps worth... Saying that I have crashed it once and scratched the shifters and acquired a few scratches from passing trees etc. Stuff like this happens!
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    well thats true. but if you went to buy a car and it was badly marked or had irregular paint patterns would you buy it?? i think not.

    whilst the bike will get scratched once riding, when you buy it NEW i think it should be as the picture and description.

    anyway, return is arranged. just want to say how good wiggle have been. no hassle return, whilst im disappointed in this particular bike, i cant criticise wiggle! they have been fantastic to deal with.
  • Tempestas
    Tempestas Posts: 486
    Isn't it just the nature of the new raw finish?

    They show the finish in the pictures here: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/bikedeta ... ontage.jpg

    I judge a bike by how it rides personally, no-one buys a pair of lightweight wheels for the looks :wink: after all, they are rough finished and look cheap, but oh how well they ride.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    to be honest i hadnt seen that montage before! have they just put that up?

    i can see the rear of the bike has similar marks. although its the front of the frame which bothered me more on mine, the laquer run is everywhere and looks awful.
    that montage hasnt zoomed in on the front end much....maybe thats to cover over similar marks??

    is it normal to have large laquer runs on carbon frames?