Travelling with CO2

disgruntledgoat

There's a couple of months before I have to worry about this but can I take CO2 cartridges on a plane? I bought my first shock pump in France and flew it back, so I'm not anticipating problems, but velonews letters has had some horror stories of late.

airborne_warrior

http://www.velonews.com/article/88874

alfablue

I think that Velonews item is a bit misleading (well, I thought "rubbish" especially the idea that your cylinders may explode!). Maybe it applies in the US, where the laws of physics are a bit "special"..

I wanted to fly with British Airways with self-inflating life jackets, using the same type of cannister as a CO2 inflator.

On their web site they say "Restricted items requiring notification to British Airways - non-flammable gas cylinder"

Anyway, I phoned to notify in advance and they weren't interested, and at the check-in I told them and they weren't interested. I really can't see there being a problem if one or two are packed in your hold luggage.

Monty Dog

CAA/FAA regs preclude the carriage of any pressurised gas cylinders / cannisters on an aircraft - you will be specifically asked that question at check-in - making a false declaration in the current security climate is foolhardy. They also X-ray most hold baggage these days and if they spot the cylinders they will either remove them or leave your bag behind - your choice - they can also throw you off the flight and ban you from the airline for making a false declaration!. This isn't because of an explosion risk - most luggage holds are pressurised, but from a maintenance perspective, a leaking gas cycling may inadvertantly can lead to a delay on your flight. For the sake of a few quid, buy some when you get there - I'd be really pi$$ed if my flight was delayed because you're trying to flaunt the rules. .

disgruntledgoat

Monty Dog wrote:

CAA/FAA regs preclude the carriage of any pressurised gas cylinders / cannisters on an aircraft - you will be specifically asked that question at check-in - making a false declaration in the current security climate is foolhardy. They also X-ray most hold baggage these days and if they spot the cylinders they will either remove them or leave your bag behind - your choice - they can also throw you off the flight and ban you from the airline for making a false declaration!. This isn't because of an explosion risk - most luggage holds are pressurised, but from a maintenance perspective, a leaking gas cycling may inadvertantly can lead to a delay on your flight. For the sake of a few quid, buy some when you get there - I'd be really pi$$ed if my flight was delayed because you're trying to flaunt the rules. .

That's pretty much what I thought. I didn't give it a second thought when I bought it last year, but I should have done. Also, the huge warning stickers all over the box when I bought them from Wiggle ought to serve as some sort of warning eh?

alfablue

Well, CAA regs may well preclude the carriage of any pressurised gas cylinders - fine. But why then, does our national carrier permit the carriage of pressurised gas cylinders???? And why do they say so on their web site?? I would have expected them to know better - is this a national scandal I have uncovered? Should I phone the press????

When I travelled with them I did everything I was asked, and there was no problem at all!

Monty Dog

Try it at your own risk - in a previous job I used to have to travel a lot with a number of compressed air cylinders and got to know the regs intimately - 10 years ago they we'ren't so anal on security and so you could sometimes get away with it. These days (working in the aerospace industry) and knowing the security regime is a lot tighter and the staff probably less well-trained and tolerant, I wouldn't bother. Whilst the check-in staff might be OK, most airport security and baggage handling in undertaken by a different company - they don't give a stuff about customer relations, then only need to show they complied with the regs. Arriving at your destination sans luggage and then explaining that you were carrying a known prohibited will invalidate any insurance claim too. BTW it's nothing to do with what's in the cylinder and whether it will explode (unlikely) but the fact that it could start leaking and any 'hissing' needs to be investigated.

alfablue

Ryanair only prohibit "Gases: propane, butane". Self-inflating life jackets with 2 CO2 cyclinders and two spares are allowed.

KLM prohibit Gases: propane, butane;

BA Restricted items needing no notification (restricted in that maximum quantities are set) Non-flammable, non-toxic gas cylinders (i.e. you may take CO2 cylinders within limits).

Easyjet prohibit everything!

BMI prohibit Compressed gases (flammable, non-flammable, deeply refrigerated and poisonous) such as camping gas and aerosols

So it seems it depends very much on the airline, and local regulations of the destination country, and EU regulations (for example, on my last flight to Oz, we had plastic cutlery between London and Singapore, and metal cutlery between Singapore and Sydney).

alfablue

Having said all the above, I wouldn't be too fussed about taking bike CO2, but when I travelled with the life jackets, there was zero opportunity to buy cylinders at the destination, and the jackets are non-functional without them. Non-inflating life jackets are very bulky and are not viable to pack, nor are they viable for wearing on a 7 day sailing trip.

cougie

CO2 isnt allowed on airlines. Sometimes you can sneak it through - but up to you if you want to risk it.

Flying back from Ironman France last year - security were well onto the fact that triathletes use the canisters - so they had notices up and a box full of them that had been handed in. I flew out with no canisters, but 'forgot' on the way back - so I could have had problems, but they didnt spot them.

Can we do the argument about whether you have to let down your tyres or not ? Thats fun too.

alfablue

cougie wrote:

CO2 isnt allowed on airlines. Sometimes you can sneak it through - but up to you if you want to risk it.

But Cougie, I am not making this up:

Restricted items requiring notification to British Airways

The following list covers the items that may be carried on flights with British Airways but require the airline's approval prior to flying and where quantities or regulation of the items are restricted:

Non-flammable gas cylinder – as part of a life-jacket

Restricted items needing no notification

The following list covers all items that may be carried on British Airways flights but are still restricted to specific limits on quantities or dimensions:

Non-flammable, non-toxic gas cylinders

On the BA web site, you can see for yourself here

I flew with them last year with the life jackets, conformed with the requirement to notify them, they were disinterested (I expected them to annotate my booking, but they just said it was all fine).

Also

A self inflating lifejacket with 2 carbon dioxide cylinders (plus 2 spares) can be included in either cabin or checked baggage.

Ryanair web site here

I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP! Ryanair and BA must be the ones making it up!

Can we do the argument about whether you have to let down your tyres or not ? Thats fun too.

That is fun, but is now tending to be seen as old hat; Ryanair, again say:

It is not necessary from a safety perspective to deflate typical tyres found on bikes and wheelchairs for carriage in the hold. However, to eliminate the small risk of them being damaged by bursting, you may wish to deflate the tyres. Understandably this decision may be influenced by how easily the tyres could be inflated upon arrival.

.

cougie

Aaah so BA allow them ? At Nice it wasnt one particular airline doing the screening - it was just the airport security - so dont know how they apply the varying rules.

The Ryanair tyre thing - I'm sure thats new too.

alfablue

cougie wrote:

Aaah so BA allow them ? At Nice it wasnt one particular airline doing the screening - it was just the airport security - so dont know how they apply the varying rules.

The Ryanair tyre thing - I'm sure thats new too.

I think there is a wide variation in practice and interpretation. The CAA do allow some of these items but also, in some cases, leave the decision to the carrier. I can understand that at airports dealing with a number of carriers they may well adopt the policy of the "lowest common denominator", and the travellers experience may well differ in practice from what their particular airline has advised them.

As I said above, I don't think prohibition of CO2 for cycling is a big loss, but for the lifejacket scenario I think they need to be allowed, especially as this is safety equipment which you cannot necessarily purchase at your destination.

I still have nagging doubts about taking my bike on Easyjet next month for the first time - I am following the airline's advice on packing it, but I gather the handlers at individual airports can take idiosyncratic decisions on this :roll: We shall see . . .

synchronicity

Also from QANTAS:

Non-flammable gas cylinder fitted into a life jacket containing carbon dioxide or other suitable gas in Division 2.2, up to two (2) small cylinders per passenger, and up to two (2) spare cartridges.

The approval of the operator(s) is required - true
Permitted on one's person - yes
Permitted in or as checked in baggage - yes
Permitted in or as carry-on baggage - yes

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/be ... erousGoods

I vaguely remember I got away with taking two CO² cartidges on a flight even though it wasn't part of a life jacket. But you do need to show them at check-in.

cougie

I have taken my bike on Easyjet in a hard shell case and it was fine.

I've also taken it in soft shell cases for four trips and its survived just fine. You do need shed loads of pipe lagging, insulation tape, more foam. and then probably a bit more foam on top of that....