Numpty Week

Roastie

DonDaddyD wrote:

OK

Beginners aren't numpties. Numpties are numpties. Tw@ts are Tw@ts. Beginners are beginners. Pr!cks are Pr!cks..

Came to this thread to post exactly that - beat me to it!

Rockbuddy

OK, I agree numpties are numpties and that’s true in any walk of life. However, there does seem to be an undertone of division between roadies and mtb/hybrids etc on this forum. I have a hardtail mtb (locked out sus) with semi-slicks and do about 15-20mph on the flat (depending on the weather) yep not very quick. I’m quite sure that most of the roadies here could ‘scalp’ me effortlessly and that I would be somewhat faster on a road bike if I gave it a chance. However, every time I see a guy on a road bike in full team strip hunched over their drop bars it really kinda puts me off. Just my opinion but some people on the forum do come across quite superior and that would seem to be the view a fair few people have of roadies in general…Anyways, back to the topic, I try and follow the rules (no RLJing etc) but no-ones perfect, I’m sure everyone does stupid things every once in a while on their commute…having said that there are always numpties and they are not always motors or peds.

nation

BoardinBob wrote:

There are plenty of full susser bikes costing £1,500+ that weigh a lot more than 35lb.

True, but not really anything you'd conceivably use for transport. I was thinking of XC/Trail bikes when I typed that, since that's the price point and usage profile when most MTB riders are forced to consider their priorities and choose between climbing ability and trail speed.

The same point would apply to anyone trying to do their commute on a Trek Session, for example, which is that a lot of people who decide to try cycling out as a means of transport are routinely sold horrifically unsuitable equipment.

The problem I have with supermarket full-sus MTBs is that they aren't really any good at anything. It'll be a complete chore to ride as transport, and won't be capable off-road. A 40lb DH bike is at least good for it's intended purpose, which is heading downhill very fast. If there was such a thing as an £89.99 supermarket road bike it would at least (hopefully) be functional if a bit weighty.

Also, I should probably mention that I commute on an MTB, so I'm not down on MTBs generally, it just bugs me that people who are never going to ride off road are sold MTBs as transport when a road bike would suit them better. I'm not buying a road bike anytime soon, I've got my eye on a Giant Anthem X.

Eau Rouge

Rockbuddy wrote:

However, every time I see a guy on a road bike in full team strip hunched over their drop bars it really kinda puts me off.

shhh, I'll let you into a little secret....
Roadies love their drop bars, I mean love them, and are utterly convinced that drop bars are all about comfort. They also know that to most non-cyclists, drop bars are regarded as "uncomfortable". Roadies find this very funny, and become more and more convinced that the knowledge that drop bars are designed for comfort is akin to an enlightenment of a sort, and anyone who thinks they know something more than other people will have some element of a superiority complex. Every flat barred bike not caked in mud just reinforces the complex. (serious mountain bikers get a pass, roadies assume there must be a good reason for flats on a serious mountain bike....they can't imagine what that is, but there must be some reason)

Personally, as long as it's being used on the road not the footpath, I don't really care what people ride. Sure, the roadie in me is a right smug b****ard, but I just about keep him quiet.

rally200

. Sure, the roadie in me is a right smug b****ard, but I just about keep him quiet.
[/quote]

Whilst I feel I should hate the smugness, I think it might be what's drawing me into road-biking. It's just like when I was a Mod about 100 years ago - obsessing about having exactly the right model scooter, and the right (often overpriced, ludicrous & tight fitting) clothes but never letting it look like you were trying too hard - because being new and trying too hard is the worst crime of all. It's great you can hate anyone for being older, younger, poorer, richer, different or the same as you.

p.s. scalped my kid's earlier today - the fools - 16" wheels, knobbly tires, & platform pedals

Rockbuddy

Eau Rouge wrote:

Roadies love their drop bars, I mean love them, and are utterly convinced that drop bars are all about comfort. They also know that to most non-cyclists, drop bars are regarded as "uncomfortable". Roadies find this very funny, and become more and more convinced that the knowledge that drop bars are designed for comfort is akin to an enlightenment of a sort, and anyone who thinks they know something more than other people will have some element of a superiority complex. Every flat barred bike not caked in mud just reinforces the complex. (serious mountain bikers get a pass, roadies assume there must be a good reason for flats on a serious mountain bike....they can't imagine what that is, but there must be some reason)

Ok, at the risk of looking stupid, I was always under the impression that drop bars were designed for riding position and were all about aerodynamics not comfort. Where as the upright position with most flat bars and so called 'comfort' bikes was, well, more comfortable. Also that the upright position while less aerodynamic was worth it for the extra comfort? Have I been living a lie

nation

Just to confuse the issue further, there are people that ride drops off-road. I think Ritchey make some, and I know On-One do as well. On MTBs the tendency is to use normal MTB brake levers and shifters inboard of the drops.

I think it's mostly a preference thing. I, personally, can't get used to drops, though a lot of that is to do with the fact that I'm used to being able to cover the brakes all the time, which isn't really comfortable on drop bars.

If I bought a road bike I'd still want flat bars and trigger shifters. Maybe some stubbie bar ends for a couple of extra hand positions.

jonginge

Rockbuddy wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

Roadies love their drop bars, I mean love them, and are utterly convinced that drop bars are all about comfort. They also know that to most non-cyclists, drop bars are regarded as "uncomfortable". Roadies find this very funny, and become more and more convinced that the knowledge that drop bars are designed for comfort is akin to an enlightenment of a sort, and anyone who thinks they know something more than other people will have some element of a superiority complex. Every flat barred bike not caked in mud just reinforces the complex. (serious mountain bikers get a pass, roadies assume there must be a good reason for flats on a serious mountain bike....they can't imagine what that is, but there must be some reason)

Ok, at the risk of looking stupid, I was always under the impression that drop bars were designed for riding position and were all about aerodynamics not comfort. Where as the upright position with most flat bars and so called 'comfort' bikes was, well, more comfortable. Also that the upright position while less aerodynamic was worth it for the extra comfort? Have I been living a lie

Drops are for long-distance comfort and allow for 3 significantly different hand positions, which helps alleviate discomfort in the upper back and neck. <dons-flame-retardant-clothes>The comfort afforded by flatbars is for those with less flexible lower backs</dons-flame-retardant-clothes>

Rockbuddy wrote:

I think it's mostly a preference thing. I, personally, can't get used to drops, though a lot of that is to do with the fact that I'm used to being able to cover the brakes all the time, which isn't really comfortable on drop bars.

Definitely personal preference. I can ride all day on the hoods. I rarely ride in the drops but do when descending steep hills

Rockbuddy

JonGinge wrote:

Rockbuddy wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

Roadies love their drop bars, I mean love them, and are utterly convinced that drop bars are all about comfort. They also know that to most non-cyclists, drop bars are regarded as "uncomfortable". Roadies find this very funny, and become more and more convinced that the knowledge that drop bars are designed for comfort is akin to an enlightenment of a sort, and anyone who thinks they know something more than other people will have some element of a superiority complex. Every flat barred bike not caked in mud just reinforces the complex. (serious mountain bikers get a pass, roadies assume there must be a good reason for flats on a serious mountain bike....they can't imagine what that is, but there must be some reason)

Ok, at the risk of looking stupid, I was always under the impression that drop bars were designed for riding position and were all about aerodynamics not comfort. Where as the upright position with most flat bars and so called 'comfort' bikes was, well, more comfortable. Also that the upright position while less aerodynamic was worth it for the extra comfort? Have I been living a lie

Drops are for long-distance comfort and allow for 3 significantly different hand positions, which helps alleviate discomfort in the upper back and neck. <dons-flame-retardant-clothes>The comfort afforded by flatbars is for those with less flexible lower backs</dons-flame-retardant-clothes>

Rockbuddy wrote:

I think it's mostly a preference thing. I, personally, can't get used to drops, though a lot of that is to do with the fact that I'm used to being able to cover the brakes all the time, which isn't really comfortable on drop bars.

Definitely personal preference. I can ride all day on the hoods. I rarely ride in the drops but do when descending steep hills

I get your point, drops have flat parts too so you don't have to be crouched down the whole time. However, on my single position flats my brakes are always within reach without changing position. When I am sat up, I don't have to crouch down to brake, I just can without moving position. Maybe I'm just being picky but there have been a few times when I had to emergency brake and on a road bike if I wasn't crouching I'd be braking alot later. Just my opinion...

chuckcork

I rarely ride on the drops unless I'm wanting do a sprint or be more aerodynamic while going downhill, I ride mostly on the hoods as do most as that gives excellent control and places your hands nicely for both brake and gear levers.

Otherwise on the flat of the bars for steady climbing, though if I want to get out of the saddle I have to go back to the drops again otherwise there isn't enough control....at a guess I'd say that is how most roadies would ride.

jonginge

Rockbuddy wrote:

I get your point, drops have flat parts too so you don't have to be crouched down the whole time. However, on my single position flats my brakes are always within reach without changing position. When I am sat up, I don't have to crouch down to brake, I just can without moving position. Maybe I'm just being picky but there have been a few times when I had to emergency brake and on a road bike if I wasn't crouching I'd be braking alot later. Just my opinion...

You get used to it. I ride mostly on the hoods (always on the hoods in traffic) and can do an emegency stop no problemo. On the hoods I can have straight arms and an upright position or I can rest my wrists on the bars and crouch a bit. For me it's more comfortable on my wrists than a flatbar. I commuted on an mtb for a couple of years so I know of what I speak YMMV

rally200

I swap between a flat bar bike & a drop bar bike depending on the weather (no mudguards on the drop bar bike) . I find the flat bar bike really uncomfortable on the wrists after only 20 minutes or so. On the drop bar bike I could ride on the hoods all day, and almost never use the flats. Is it that the flat bar position is un-natural or simply that my flat bar doesn't fit me?

As mentioned above I think a lot of people are put off road bikes by the notion that somehow it must be uncomfortable, and too fragile for day to day use. It seems that all the marketing (and the attitude of large the larger LBS's) is aimed at selling hybrids (often with faux race looking parts) to the semi-aware commuter, and MTBs to the unaware. one of my LBS's despite having a shop 1/2 full of road bikes wouldn't even show me one because I mentioned the word commuting "Oh you'll need an MTB to crash up & down kerbs"

BoardinBob

nation wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

There are plenty of full susser bikes costing £1,500+ that weigh a lot more than 35lb.

True, but not really anything you'd conceivably use for transport.

I regularly commute in on my full susser if I'm going to head out on the trails straight from work

Rockbuddy

JonGinge wrote:

Rockbuddy wrote:

I get your point, drops have flat parts too so you don't have to be crouched down the whole time. However, on my single position flats my brakes are always within reach without changing position. When I am sat up, I don't have to crouch down to brake, I just can without moving position. Maybe I'm just being picky but there have been a few times when I had to emergency brake and on a road bike if I wasn't crouching I'd be braking alot later. Just my opinion...

You get used to it. I ride mostly on the hoods (always on the hoods in traffic) and can do an emegency stop no problemo. On the hoods I can have straight arms and an upright position or I can rest my wrists on the bars and crouch a bit. For me it's more comfortable on my wrists than a flatbar. I commuted on an mtb for a couple of years so I know of what I speak YMMV

Mmm, ok I have to admit that I haven't really given the road bike a go so I don't have your perspective. I am coming round to the idea of maybe buying a more road specific bike in the next 6-12months (benching my MTB for off road rides) and I may now give the drop bared bikes more attention. I have been commuting most days for the past 12 months or so on my MTB with nobblies. I only got s-slicks a month ago and noticed straight away how easier it is, reduced RR etc. Thanks for the view point...

nation

BoardinBob wrote:

nation wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

There are plenty of full susser bikes costing £1,500+ that weigh a lot more than 35lb.

True, but not really anything you'd conceivably use for transport.

I regularly commute in on my full susser if I'm going to head out on the trails straight from work

What does it weigh? I'm curious because from an XC point of view 30lbs is getting into "really heavy" territory. I can't imagine that it would be much fun to ride something 35lbs + over any appreciable distance.

Massimo

I'm actually quite sad to report that I see more people jogging to work in Birmingham than cycling...

gtvlusso

It was god awful this morning - wobbling, slow, causing chaos - ah well. - going the back roads and back to big mileage for the foreseeable......will stay out of the way of the numpties.

BoardinBob

nation wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

nation wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

There are plenty of full susser bikes costing £1,500+ that weigh a lot more than 35lb.

True, but not really anything you'd conceivably use for transport.

I regularly commute in on my full susser if I'm going to head out on the trails straight from work

What does it weigh? I'm curious because from an XC point of view 30lbs is getting into "really heavy" territory. I can't imagine that it would be much fun to ride something 35lbs + over any appreciable distance.

32lbs

6.5 mile commute

Scalping dozens of roadies, hybrids, bromptons etc 8)

roger_merriman

nation wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

nation wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

There are plenty of full susser bikes costing £1,500+ that weigh a lot more than 35lb.

True, but not really anything you'd conceivably use for transport.

I regularly commute in on my full susser if I'm going to head out on the trails straight from work

What does it weigh? I'm curious because from an XC point of view 30lbs is getting into "really heavy" territory. I can't imagine that it would be much fun to ride something 35lbs + over any appreciable distance.

most of the town bikes ie hybrid type bikes are closer to 40lb, my pottering to town bike with basket etc is 50lb unlaiden, but these are not bikes one rides far, few miles at most.

they have there uses, they tend to have (for road) wide tires and a more upright postion so it's easier to look over traffic and behind and the bike tends to be a fairly steady ride, so lumps and bumps tend to much less of a issue.

vwolf

nation wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the people riding the bikes, but I always wonder how many people are put off cycling for good because their relative lack of fitness combined with trying to ride a 35lb bike on knobbly tyres gives them a false impression of how difficult it is.

Erm, I like the 30mile commute on my £750 MTB (which incidentally I can pick up with my little finger). My "knobly" slick tyres dont cause too much of a problem and probably gets me fitter through harder work as opposed to a road bike. Although I do find having to overtake the ocassional wheezer on a roadie a little annoying - surely it should be the other way round

And at the weekend I swap tires and use for the trails - We don't all have buckets of cash to splash out on 2bikes! :roll:

Oh dear, I didnt realise how elitist this board was :roll:

il_principe

Why is there a sudden stream of comments suggesting Elitism?!

I think some people are taking things a little to seriously...

DonDaddyD

Romans and Barbarians Jash, Romans and Barbarians.


Edit: Seriously

I just roll my eyes at the elitist comments.

I ride a £350 Giant SCR road bike. During the times I've ridden it alongside yourself (a pinerello owner) and Greg66 (a Cervelox2 owner ) both of you have been the most patient people I've come across.

Even when we have our race, I suspect you'll be waiting at the end (having won) wiliing to offer advice. When someone like me (a fat-mouthy-relatively-slow roadie) is made to feel welcome riding alongside the likes of yourself Attica, Bass et al I just roll my eyes when people play the elitist card.

If anything most MTBers I've come across have this assumption that roadies are elitist. They're often not, just competitive.

Rockbuddy

jashburnham wrote:

nation wrote:

For me, a lot of what annoys me is people on MTBs purely because that's what Halfords/Argos/Non-Specialist sports shops steer them towards. Said MTBs are almost invariably massively heavy clunkers with poorly designed undamped suspension at both ends. There's nothing wrong with full-sus bikes inherently, but most MTBers will accept that any full sus bike costing less than around £1500 is going to come with a significant weight penalty.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the people riding the bikes, but I always wonder how many people are put off cycling for good because their relative lack of fitness combined with trying to ride a 35lb bike on knobbly tyres gives them a false impression of how difficult it is.

It also strikes me that an £89.99 road bike with no suspension and rim brakes is going to be lighter ang higher quality than an £89.99 MTB with full suspension and discs.

Marketing has a lot to answer for.

+1 million.

Saw a bloke sprinting on a front susser last night, it looked a tad pointless!

'cos of comments like this that's why there are people going on about elietism...not taking it too seriously just joing in the coms. Just between us though, you kinda do look down on MTBs don't ya

Christophe3967

Rockbuddy wrote:

[Just between us though, you kinda do look down on MTBs don't ya

No. I have a MTB and find MTBing far harder. Road biking is just more accessible. Yes there is a degree of sibling rivalry but that's part of the fun.

Rockbuddy

Christophe3967 wrote:

Rockbuddy wrote:

[Just between us though, you kinda do look down on MTBs don't ya

No. I have a MTB and find MTBing far harder. Road biking is just more accessible. Yes there is a degree of sibling rivalry but that's part of the fun.

Yes I agree it's all part of the fun and have to admit maybe some of the perceived eleitism maybe comes from envey when you are passed effortlessly by a roady :? But you didn't hear that from me

greg66_tri_v2.0

Fcuk me. This is like walking into the waiting room at the psychiatrists. What is this? Therapists' paradise?

The vast majority of bike owners have a pretty simple set of values:

1. I have exactly the right bike.
2. Anyone with a bike that is more expensive/racier/lighter/fancier looking than mine is a spendthrift/deluded TdF wannabe/deluded weight weenie/poseur.
3. Anyone with a bike that is less expensive/less racy/heavier/fancier looking than mine is a mug/clueless fool/weightlifter/hobo.

Obvious really.

DonDaddyD wrote:

I ride a £350 Giant SCR road bike. During the times I've ridden it alongside yourself (a pinerello owner) and Greg66 (a Cervelox2 owner ) both of you have been the most patient people I've come across.

Actually, DDD, Jash does that because he's really slow, and worries that if he lets you ride at normal speed, you'll ride him off your wheel, and then he'll die of shame and have to hand his Pinarello back to the bike shop.

I'm really patient though.

nation

Eek. I didn't mean to come off as elitist.

I have one bike, and it's an MTB, commuting on an MTB is perfectly sensible. I'm actually building up another MTB specifically for commuting now that the bug has bitten.

My beef is with poor quality bikes, which most commonly are really heavy, badly designed, full suspension "MTBs". The only reason I brought up the MTB/Road bike thing is that you never seem to see road bike supermarket specials, but I reckon that for a given price point, especially if it's a very low price point, a supermarket special with no suspension, rim brakes, and street tyres would be a better bike for getting around on than a full sus supermarket special on knobblies. Honestly, even if they were rigid MTBs it would be an improvement (you don't seem to see rigid MTBs anymore, either, they're always described as "hybrids". I think it's balls, really. A Marin Muirwoods is an MTB however they categorise it). It bugs me that people are being sold bikes that aren't fit for purpose, and will likely end up being put off cycling because of it.

I can't remember who said it, but "The perfect bike is the one you have".

nation

Ooops, quoted instead of editing

rally200

jashburnham wrote:

Why is there a sudden stream of comments suggesting Elitism?!

I think some people are taking things a little to seriously...

pots & kettles, pots & kettles


I feel so strongly about this that I want to keep 2 elitism threads alive

wantaway

Originally it got on my tits a bit. I have re-thought this a bit. Unfortunately I had to go to london this week. Unable to get any decent sleep in the hotel I got up early and went for a run from Kings cross to the tate and back. It gave me a good chance to experience london commuting up close.

my god cyclists are like a plague of ill disciplined wasps. swarming round junctions like they were made of jam. I can now understand why some of these day-glo riders irritate other cyclists so much and why london car drivers have such low regard for pedal powered road users.

I also began to understand the manly appeal of a single speed bike. mmmmmmm. tempting.