Employer's minimum provision

flybywire

I have been cycling to work for over 20years .. When working at various cycle shops the storage of my bike,clothing & wash facilities was good.

Currently my employer is less than willing & where there used to be showers they have no plans to put back in. Also there is an issue with parking bike inside the building & there's no secure parking outside.

In these modern ctw government initiative times is there any duty of care that the employer is required to have.?

Please excuse me if this has been covered before on another thread

Christophe3967

flybywire wrote:

In these modern ctw government initiative times is there any duty of care that the employer is required to have.?

No. Sadly, most employers just don't recognise cyclists and those with CTW schemes often provide little in the way of support. Some exceptions but most HR departments see the whole thing as too difficult and not mainstream.

chuckcork

If you were senior management with a car they'd lavish parking, a car etc on you.

As a mere employee with a bike you're not worth the hassle....thats been my experience anyway, though I did have 2 interviews recently where they did provide cycle parking. Of course didn't get either of those jobs.... :?

simple_salmon

See the discussion here: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... ght=breeam

That might help.

wgwarburton

chuckcork wrote:

If you were senior management with a car they'd lavish parking, a car etc on you.

What if you were senior management with a bicycle?

Cheers,
W.

always_tyred

WGWarburton wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

If you were senior management with a car they'd lavish parking, a car etc on you.

What if you were senior management with a bicycle?

Cheers,
W.

You'd keep it in your office and no one would object.

I wonder about this particular problem - this is a case where the cycle facilities are being reduced. Its a situation where someone has been in a job and chosen their abode and mode of transportation on the basis of existing facilities which are now being removed. Removal of said facilities will require a gym membership or a season ticket.

The only hope might be to try to dig out some mission statement, or something like that, relating to the environment. And to get support of other people who cycle, or even those who jog at lunchtimes.

Also, its a long shot, but dig around int he HR paperwork you got when you started the job and see if there is any reference to amenities (of any kind) in the workplace - there might be some reference intended, for example, to refer to canteen/kitchenette facilites, or car parking, which might be wooly enough to be interpreted for the present purpose.

I'm not optomistic, but you should at least look.

chuckcork

Could also query affect on office travel plans, punctuality and so on.

I assume they would be happy for you as an alternative to use public transport and be late in 20% of the time?

chuckcork

WGWarburton wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

If you were senior management with a car they'd lavish parking, a car etc on you.

What if you were senior management with a bicycle?

Cheers,
W.

The place I am thinking of (large architects office in Surbiton) doesn't have any directors who cycle, any who did would probably be considered cranks and as such not even get to that level....though I've lived considerably further away than many of them and still ridden in, being provided with a company car as part of their package means most of them have to have it available for other staff to use (not that anyone ever did IIRC)

always_tyred

chuckcork wrote:

WGWarburton wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

If you were senior management with a car they'd lavish parking, a car etc on you.

What if you were senior management with a bicycle?

Cheers,
W.

The place I am thinking of (large architects office in Surbiton) doesn't have any directors who cycle, any who did would probably be considered cranks and as such not even get to that level....though I've lived considerably further away than many of them and still ridden in, being provided with a company car as part of their package means most of them have to have it available for other staff to use (not that anyone ever did IIRC)

You could get a company car and a company parking space, chose an estate or hatchback, park it at work permanently and store your bike in it. An expensive bike box for the firm, but its got an alarm and everything.

passout

Our place has BUG (Bicycle Users Group) who act as a polite & constructive pressure group to inform management on the advantages of cycling - healthier employees, less car parking issues, tying into any sustainability strategies/targets etc. More difficult if it's just you!

AndyManc

Not much legal backing , BUT , you are using green transport, keeping yourself healthy (less likely to be off work sick ) so any decent company should be encouraging cycling and providing facilities.

If the place where you work has trades union representation then join it, if there is a health and safety rep, speak to them , if there isn't , apply to become one.



.

teulk

The place where i work has 1 shower room (the size of a large bathroom) but no lockers or changing rooms (other than the shower room). Its either get changed in the shower room or the toilets. There is no where other than your bag to keep your wet or damp cycle clothing - my employer does the C2W scheme to.........

chuckcork

Always Tyred wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

WGWarburton wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

If you were senior management with a car they'd lavish parking, a car etc on you.

What if you were senior management with a bicycle?

Cheers,
W.

The place I am thinking of (large architects office in Surbiton) doesn't have any directors who cycle, any who did would probably be considered cranks and as such not even get to that level....though I've lived considerably further away than many of them and still ridden in, being provided with a company car as part of their package means most of them have to have it available for other staff to use (not that anyone ever did IIRC)

You could get a company car and a company parking space, chose an estate or hatchback, park it at work permanently and store your bike in it. An expensive bike box for the firm, but its got an alarm and everything.

Even with recession, unemployment and living a few hundred metres away, I haven't even spoken to them about whether they might have any work going it was that bad for me there in the end, getting a car in such circumstances would be the height of fantasy.

Only directors/senior associates would get the fringe benefit of a company car, I was never in any sense going to advance in that firm to running a project for a small school toilet block (my previous experience included master planning and getting out to tender a new high school) let alone be promoted to such a level to be considered management with such perks attached.

snooks

chuckcork wrote:

I assume they would be happy for you as an alternative to use public transport and be late in 20% of the time?

Surely it's your responsibility to get to work on time? It's not up to your employer how you choose to get work, it's up to you. If you use public transport and it's unreliable you leave home earlier. Hardly rocket science

What about the time you're late because you have a visit from the PF?

Sadly I don't this there is any onus on an employer to provide facilities for cyclists. Look at it through their eyes...Company profits spent on a minority who choose to risk their lives to save money to get to work.

It's a poor view I know, but it's the opinion of a lot of people, they see the roads as dangerous places to be, when in reality most of the traffic is stationary in the mornings!!

Luckily my employer had new offices built for them, and underground secure cycle storage, showers and (not quite enough) lockers were all part of the building from the start. The sad thing is that there is a waiting list for a bike parking space, and it's hidden away, so a lot of the employees are unaware of it's existence.

wgwarburton

chuckcork wrote:

The place I am thinking of ... doesn't have any directors who cycle, any who did would probably be considered cranks and as such not even get to that level....

Yes, that was my point, really. We're a long way from people being offered a bike as a management perk, I think.
I'm sure there are many places where cycling to work would be seen as sufficiently deviant activity to compromise your chances of promotion... Sad state of affairs.

Cheers,
W.

chuckcork

snooks wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

I assume they would be happy for you as an alternative to use public transport and be late in 20% of the time?

Surely it's your responsibility to get to work on time? It's not up to your employer how you choose to get work, it's up to you. If you use public transport and it's unreliable you leave home earlier. Hardly rocket science

What about the time you're late because you have a visit from the PF?

It may be the employees responsiblity to get to work on time, but then again there is reasonable and unreasonable. If you rely on the tube to get to work, and an hour before you leave the house in the morning the system collapses (as it does) should you have had the foresight to be aware of this and get the much slower bus in sooner? If you are already on the way and there is the oh-so predicatable signal failure/points failure/breakdown/line closure, its a bit late to say you should have known.

While employers may require staff to be in on time, there is a limit to how much they can demand at a practical level, if the flipside is that 80% of the time they are at work early are they going to pay those staff extra for being there?

As for the PF, better tyres ridden at proper inflation with regular inspections for embedded objects, after that luck. Having worked for years and been ticked off for being late due to said PF I have always been able to point to those around me who have been significantly later due to car breakdown, public transport failure and traffic jams, none of which might reasonably have been predicted by them either.

And unlike those circumstances which can easily enough add a couple hours of journey time, changing a flat with a full precautionary tyre check only takes 15 minutes, well allowable in a getting to work schedule.

snooks

chuckcork I just found the figure of 20% very high

So once a week public transport lets a colleague down?

I find public transport far more reliable, maybe once a month or once every two months I'll get a problem on the days I've decide to use it. More often than not I'm late cos of activities the night before, and I get up late


Though public transport does make a good scape goat!!

always_tyred

The only time public transport has let me down recently was when a train unexpectedly arrived on time. I use the train about once a week and, in the entire time I've been using it (30 odd occasions) its NEVER been less than 7 minutes late. I rolled up to the station last week a minute after it was due (expecting to be at least 6 minutes early) and the bastard thing was on time.

snooks

Always Tyred wrote:

bastard thing was on time.

Yeah they are always late when you're early, and always early when you're late..

The law of Sod I believe

chuckcork

snooks wrote:

chuckcork I just found the figure of 20% very high

So once a week public transport lets a colleague down?

Though public transport does make a good scape goat!!

Its a fact I just made up

But if you take into account lateness due to trains, buses, traffic snarls....

robmanic1

It's well known fact that 86.25% of statistics are made up

Christophe3967

snooks wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

bastard thing was on time.

Yeah they are always late when you're early, and always early when you're late..

The law of Sod I believe

Exactly, and don't forget subsection 2, which states that the next train is delayed

always_tyred

chuckcork wrote:

snooks wrote:

chuckcork I just found the figure of 20% very high

So once a week public transport lets a colleague down?

Though public transport does make a good scape goat!!

Its a fact I just made up

But if you take into account lateness due to trains, buses, traffic snarls....

I agree with the general point that time of arrival by bike is much more predictable than train, car, bus, etc., despite the occasional mechanical problem.

flybywire

apologies - not followed up my post, just had an opportunity to log in today ..

Some valid points made by several of you.(thanks - & I especially liked Always Tyred comment about senior management keeping bike their office! :? ) But as expected no provision entitled to those who choose to commute by bike instead of car. It's a fundamental requirement.

I wonder if the Sustrans or ctc can lobby government for a minimum facility to make law?!

To add that unfortunately on Friday after having to park my bike in the employees toilet (it's spacious and bike away from urinals/traps ) I noticed on the way home the handle bar stem was slightly out of line and then after another couple of miles heard a clicking from the front wheel. Stopped and checked spokes and identified one was bent and pulled out the nipple @rim. Certainly wasn't like that on way in but was able to continue next 8miles home ok. Phoned manager, who's ok and I reported it without accusation or anger - nothing else can be done as just down to "one of those things" :roll:

Damage to bike has happened before with new gaitorkskins and 15mm slashes about 18months ago and finding bike knocked over from time to time etc. This concern over bike security is not good although the employer has listened where short-term solutions are given but keeps having to be moved around building.. :?

NGale

My employer while doing C2W has no lock up points for bikes, no lockers, no changing rooms and one shower which at night is down at the end of the building which is alarmed and therefore off limits to those of us in the control room.

At the moment the BUG consists of two people, myself and a colleague! so far nothing has come of moving the shower room in spite of them faffing around with putting up new bog roll holders in the loos. Yesterday we stated that unless they do something about getting some lock up points then we would be storing our bikes (my colleagues bike is worth £4.500!) in the lift. Evidently we were told we could not do this because it would be against disability access, fair enough, so instead we said that at night we would store bikes in the downstairs toilets...no against NHS hygine regulations. Ok we will use the lock up points of the company next door...no not allowed we have been told only their employees can lock their bikes there.

So tomorrow they will find my bike propped up against my desk and will continue to do so until they provide locking points!