Thinking of ditching Clipless Pedals

Infamous

Soni wrote:

Also, i had to increase the height of the saddle to compensate for the cleats on the bottom of the shoes, as the top of my leg (not the knee) was starting to ache early on during the ride as it would if the saddle was too low.

However, by increasing the saddle height it feels even more unsafe!

Is it wrong that I laughed at this?

It sounds like a confidence issue to me (which hasn't been helped by your fall). Get some MTB pedals if you think that'll help, but in the end you can only do one thing, ride your bike!

If you don't enjoy it, then take up a safer sport, badminton or dominoes perhaps.

le_grimpeur

Yes, MTB shoes are easier to walk in, and clip in on SPDs that are double sided. I recently hired a bike and they gave me the option of using my MTB shoes, which fitted into a road style pedal - it had a wider base like the road pedal does, thus you'd have the comfort of the MTB with the added performance of a wider shoe platform. Sadly I don't know the product name - but such a thing does exist.

Soni

Infamous wrote:

Soni wrote:

Also, i had to increase the height of the saddle to compensate for the cleats on the bottom of the shoes, as the top of my leg (not the knee) was starting to ache early on during the ride as it would if the saddle was too low.

However, by increasing the saddle height it feels even more unsafe!

Is it wrong that I laughed at this?

It sounds like a confidence issue to me (which hasn't been helped by your fall). Get some MTB pedals if you think that'll help, but in the end you can only do one thing, ride your bike!

If you don't enjoy it, then take up a safer sport, badminton or dominoes perhaps.

Safer Sport like Dominos? You have got to be having a laugh with me haven't you :shock: , i've been training in Martial Arts for the last 23 years doing WTF Taekwondo, won a Silver in the Heavyweight Division of the English Open in Southampton a few years ago, and if you are not familiar with the different types, WTF is classed as Full Contact.

However, i didn't go into Full Contact within the first 6 months of training with my hands tied behind my back, just like i'm not prepared to go out riding on the open road with my feet clipped into pedals, especially with the amount of nutters you get on the roads with total disregard for cyclists.

Some cyclists would never consider wearing headphones/walkman when riding, others feel equally unsafe having their feet clipped into pedals.

I've been riding bikes since my teens, never had a problem with feeling unsafe, as i could allways put my feet down quickly when required. However, when you've got cars and vans scraping past you in narrow lanes and your feet are clipped into a pedal, you don't feel as safe as you would do if you had your feet on flat pedals and could put one or both feet down within a split second if required.

With the above points in mind, i think you will agree its not a confidence issue with regard to cycling, its an issue with regard to calculating risk associated with clipless pedals and road loons......

John.T

No. I would say it is a confidence issue with regard to clipless pedals. They are almost universally accepted now by the sports cycling community as their benefits have been sown over the years. It is a question of learning the technique and not getting hung up over it. When I started riding in the late 50s I was using toe clips and straps with shoe plates. When you did the straps up there was no way your feet were coming off the pedals. Before stopping you had to flick the quick release on the strap. I became intinctive. I stopped riding seriously for around 35 years and only got back around 10 years ago. I went for SPD pedals straight away and created some amusment among fellow riders as I was still reaching down for the straps before stopping.
In terms of getting your feet to the floor quickly I bet I would be only milliseconds behind a flat pedal user.
Riding with flat pedals to me feels like driving without a seat belt. A little in secure.

Infamous

Soni wrote:

Safer Sport like Dominos? You have got to be having a laugh with me haven't you :shock: , i've been training in Martial Arts for the last 23 years doing WTF Taekwondo, won a Silver in the Heavyweight Division of the English Open in Southampton a few years ago, and if you are not familiar with the different types, WTF is classed as Full Contact.

However, i didn't go into Full Contact within the first 6 months of training with my hands tied behind my back, just like i'm not prepared to go out riding on the open road with my feet clipped into pedals, especially with the amount of nutters you get on the roads with total disregard for cyclists.

Some cyclists would never consider wearing headphones/walkman when riding, others feel equally unsafe having their feet clipped into pedals.

I've been riding bikes since my teens, never had a problem with feeling unsafe, as i could allways put my feet down quickly when required. However, when you've got cars and vans scraping past you in narrow lanes and your feet are clipped into a pedal, you don't feel as safe as you would do if you had your feet on flat pedals and could put one or both feet down within a split second if required.

With the above points in mind, i think you will agree its not a confidence issue with regard to cycling, its an issue with regard to calculating risk associated with clipless pedals and road loons......

sounds like you don't mind being punched in the face (or thrown on the floor or whatever), but you seem almost scared of riding. perhaps it's the vertigo from raising your saddle 5mm ?

You haven't been out for 2 months, in that time you could have changed back to your old pedals right? it's like you're making excuses not to go out, as was said in the thread, how can you ever learn to use them if you don't ride?

Change pedals if you must, but you'll still have to clip in and out or remove foot from straps.

tiddlywinks?

ris

Soni wrote:

Hi Ris, this is exactly what i'm experiencing, and the Carbon bit at the bottom of the shoe, yes this is what it is, i didn't realise it was Carbon.....really slippery looking plastic!

What do you mean about Security of the SPD-SL design?

i was meaning how well attached i feel to the pedals, even compared to spds. going back to spuds, which i do once in a while when i ride my folder, feel so much looser and less connected.

i really like the secure attachment with spd-sl's (i'm sure look etc are the same), i don't have to worry about getting my feet in the right spot or making little adjustments - it's all already there.

the skidding around off the sole though - the first couple of weeks it drove me round the bend! it didn't take too long for me to get used to aiming a different bit of my foot at the pedal and feeling around for the connection before pushing down, but i was riding 25miles a day, 3-4 days a week so i got loads of practice.

stange

Hi Soni, I'm new here. i've got the Trek 1.5 too,where abouts are you? We could be team green!

Anyway, bit of background, got my bike in January after about 15 years away from riding and had some SPDSL's put on in the shop, i got some Shimao R131 shoes. Until that moment I had never gone clipless, always had straps before.

I had an off a month ago due to slipping on some crap on the road and knackered my arm so bad that I have not been back on the bike, but tomorrow morning I'm going to ride to work for the first time. To be honest I'm a bit nervous about the clipless issue, but I've spotted some handing leaning posts to use, i'll only get used to them the more I use them, and I've only done about 50miles so far (difficult to tell exactly cos i mounted the sensor for my computer on backwards and couldn'f figure out why it was only telling me the time!

I'm going to keep at it as i think the benefits will outweigh the negatives in time (plus i think the shoes look cool!)

all the best

rally200

Soni

Sounds like M324s (spd one side, grippy platform the other, & supplied with the silver multi release cleat) would be ideal for you, no need to clip in at all when you're in amongst heavy traffic. I started off with them and have now moved them over to my commuter so I can use normal shoes if needs be - on the subject of which I did so for the first time in months today and absolutely hated it - feels slighty insecure, & have to grind rather than spin - do persevere with clipless it's worth it.

ds1964

Hi Soni,,

I wondered what happened to you after those first few rides you did.. Last time I saw you I was meant to lead the ride and cancelled it before we started as it was snowing. I've not read all of this thread but I would urge you to come along to a Sunday ride and the advice you will get will be a lot more useful for being face to face. You will also not have to worry about getting back if there is a problem - Eric or Andrew will look after you I'm sure (I'm time trialing now so won't be doing many Sundays until October)..

All the best,

Dave

Soni

stange wrote:

Hi Soni, I'm new here. i've got the Trek 1.5 too,where abouts are you? We could be team green!

Anyway, bit of background, got my bike in January after about 15 years away from riding and had some SPDSL's put on in the shop, i got some Shimao R131 shoes. Until that moment I had never gone clipless, always had straps before.

I had an off a month ago due to slipping on some crap on the road and knackered my arm so bad that I have not been back on the bike, but tomorrow morning I'm going to ride to work for the first time. To be honest I'm a bit nervous about the clipless issue, but I've spotted some handing leaning posts to use, i'll only get used to them the more I use them, and I've only done about 50miles so far (difficult to tell exactly cos i mounted the sensor for my computer on backwards and couldn'f figure out why it was only telling me the time!

I'm going to keep at it as i think the benefits will outweigh the negatives in time (plus i think the shoes look cool!)

all the best

Hi Mate, good choice, i love the green, others though think its a little too bright

I really like the bike, apart from the white handlebar tape, although it sets the bike off its not practical, it went brown and black in places after only a couple of months. I changed the tape to black, but it doesn't look right on the bike, so will be changing it back to white when i start riding again.

As for my location, i'm in Kent, would have been smart if we lived close by!

Soni

Soni

ds1964 wrote:

Hi Soni,,

I wondered what happened to you after those first few rides you did.. Last time I saw you I was meant to lead the ride and cancelled it before we started as it was snowing. I've not read all of this thread but I would urge you to come along to a Sunday ride and the advice you will get will be a lot more useful for being face to face. You will also not have to worry about getting back if there is a problem - Eric or Andrew will look after you I'm sure (I'm time trialing now so won't be doing many Sundays until October)..

All the best,

Dave

Hi Dave, i remember you, what a surprise it was for me to log on this morning and see you posting!

I really enjoyed the club rides, so much so that i actually paid my money and joined the club, i even went out and purchased Thule Roof Racks/Bars and Bike Tracks to go onto the roof racks to hold the bike steady for when transporting my bike to the club rides, as i got a couple of scratches on the frame from the rear rack i was using...

You are a decent group of lads and lassies, i really enjoyed the rides, even though i was knackered afterwards

The problem started when i purchased the Clipless Pedals, i should have listened to you guys when you advised me to get the MTB pedals and shoes, but when i went to purchase them my LBS advised me to get Road Shoes and Pedals for a road bike, i even went to another bike shop (which we all use ) and they advised me to get the Road Pedals and Shoes also.

However, as explained in this thread, firstly i hit ice in early January and ended up on my side in a lane on a blind bend, just managed to get back up and check the bike over when a car came flying around the cormer, another 60 seconds and i could have been killed. Also, it was lucky i had my helmet on.

I realise the pedals didn't cause the accident i had, it was unavoidable due to the ice, however i've also got the issue of feeling unsafe using the pedals. I liked having the flat pedals with the toe straps loose, so it was enough to stop my feet slipping off the pedals forwards when climbing, but also easy for me to take my foot out in emergencies.

I would love to come back to the club rides, but i'm in a catch 22 at the moment, because if i was to come back on Sunday, due to not riding for the last 2-3 months i'm going to hold the rest of the group up.......don't know how Eric and Andrew would feel about that....

ds1964

Soni,

It may not fit in with your family commitments but there is a greater choice of rides on Saturday (6 groups currently - where else could you get more choice!) so you could do less miles and at a slower pace to start with - just a thought. You would be welcome at any of the club rides.

Dave

STEFANOS4784

Martial arts and cycling are so different that you cannot compare them.
In a fight/spar you know it's controlled and if you lose you lose. When clipped to the bike i can understand the feeling of helplesness but i've come off with clippy pedals and have always come undone. Straps however i'd, personally, be more afraid of :?


Anyway did you go back out and try? How did you get on, if you've done competition fighting i can't believe you're chickening out so quick. Go and ask your sensei what do do!!!!!!!!!
(mine would have said train train train, practice ractice practice)


Unfortunately i'm quite lazy so hmph just do it

paul_or

This is a really interesting post and it's a subject I have considered posting on myself.

I went out with my spd pedals and a brand new pair of specialized shoes last year with the wife and daughter, and part way round the little one got tired/stroppy, so I rode alongside her, ever so slowly, and then gently came to a stop by the side of the road, went to put my foot down......aaaargh!! I ended up falling heavily into a thorny hedge, and it hurt!

It really knocked my confidence, and I am still always ready to click my left foot out of the pedal at the slightest sign of a junction or narrow lane/oncoming car.

Fast forward to today, and six months after getting spd's. I did a ride today which was the first for a while, and I was really uncomfortable having my feet clipped in. I'm going to give it a month or so when I hope to be riding more frequently, and hopefully i'll get over these nerves.

The bottom line is that clipless is far more efficient - but when you come off, you really suffer!

Soni

Hi guys, i went out on my Road Bike Friday morning for an hour for the first time this year, and although i'm fine with clicking in and out, i still don't like the feel of the pedals/connection. When i'm climbing, out of the saddle, it just feels like there is such a small contact area between the pedal and the shoe, i really don't feel comfortable with it.

So, i'm definetely going to ditch the pedals and shoes, what would you recommend pedal wise if i was to go back to straps?

What pedal and straps would be the best?

Also, are there such things as cyling shoes which arent of the clipless type?

Stumpy Ade

As a mtb r and roadie I use Spds on the mtb and clipless on my rb.

My opinoin is that spd's are much easier to clip in and out of, I haven't ever had a problem unclipping in any of my many and spectacular crashes. Unwind the tension and they unclip automatically. Clipping in is as easy as putting your foot on the pedal.

However I would never change my clipless road pedals, they give a much better anchorage, giving the feeling of being able to get more power through the stroke. Admittedly they are harder to clip into, but I try to anticipate what's ahead and unclip in plenty of time. Admittedly I haven't come off my road bike yet, but I'm not going to sacrifice all the advantages for the posibility that I may have an off.

I really can see no advantage of using straps, but, each to their own.

Soni

Stumpy Ade wrote:

As a mtb r and roadie I use Spds on the mtb and clipless on my rb.

My opinoin is that spd's are much easier to clip in and out of, I haven't ever had a problem unclipping in any of my many and spectacular crashes. Unwind the tension and they unclip automatically. Clipping in is as easy as putting your foot on the pedal.

However I would never change my clipless road pedals, they give a much better anchorage, giving the feeling of being able to get more power through the stroke. Admittedly they are harder to clip into, but I try to anticipate what's ahead and unclip in plenty of time. Admittedly I haven't come off my road bike yet, but I'm not going to sacrifice all the advantages for the posibility that I may have an off.

I really can see no advantage of using straps, but, each to their own.

As i mentioned above, i don't have a problem clipping in and out anymore, however what i do not like is the contact area of thes shoe/pedal.

When i use straps, the pedal seems to be almost resting under the centre point of my foot, which feels great, however with clipless pedals, i seem to be pedaling on the ball of my foot and there doesn't seem to be any further adjustment available to push the cleat any further back towards the centre of my foot.

eh

i seem to be pedaling on the ball of my foot

This is how you are supposed to pedal, not with the arch of your foot.

Although I will grant you SPDs can feel pretty unstable, compared to decent road clipless or old school clips and straps.

Also, are there such things as cyling shoes which arent of the clipless type?

THink you'll struggle to get shoes that take old style cleats anymore. Also not sure it would help as these were also designed so your ball of your foot was over the axle of the pedal.

softlad

eh wrote:

i seem to be pedaling on the ball of my foot

This is how you are supposed to pedal, not with the arch of your foot.

exactly right. if you are trying to push the pedals with the arch of your foot, you will never, ever achieve a proper pedal motion. The pedal's axle is supposed to bisect the ball of your foot - not the arch...

sturmey

Sonni, you are right in thinking that clipless pedals take some getting used to, but to be frank you haven't done any mileage in them yet so you are still in the rejection stage .
My advice would be this:

forget SPD pedals and shoes-these are for mountain bikes,commuters and tourers.

Road pedals are for Road bikes and these are what you need. You will find the contact area greater on these pedals giving you greater confidence. Forget about walking any distance on your SPD-SL cleats,your shoes are made for cycling not walking so stick to the activity they are designed for.

Take the hideous reflectors off the wheels of your Trek , get some cheap road pedals( £30 for Shimano R540) and get out there and do some miles. Don't give up on clipless pedlals.
2 million cyclists can't be wrong!

Soni

sturmey wrote:

Sonni, you are right in thinking that clipless pedals take some getting used to, but to be frank you haven't done any mileage in them yet so you are still in the rejection stage .
My advice would be this:

forget SPD pedals and shoes-these are for mountain bikes,commuters and tourers.

Road pedals are for Road bikes and these are what you need. You will find the contact area greater on these pedals giving you greater confidence. Forget about walking any distance on your SPD-SL cleats,your shoes are made for cycling not walking so stick to the activity they are designed for.

Take the hideous reflectors off the wheels of your Trek , get some cheap road pedals( £30 for Shimano R540) and get out there and do some miles. Don't give up on clipless pedlals.
2 million cyclists can't be wrong!

That photo was taken the first day i got the bike (wanted to remember how it looked when brand new).

I've taken the reflectors off, and also have fitted R540's pedals, and the shoes are Shimano R075....

Soni

eh wrote:

i seem to be pedaling on the ball of my foot

This is how you are supposed to pedal, not with the arch of your foot.

Although I will grant you SPDs can feel pretty unstable, compared to decent road clipless or old school clips and straps.

Also, are there such things as cyling shoes which arent of the clipless type?

THink you'll struggle to get shoes that take old style cleats anymore. Also not sure it would help as these were also designed so your ball of your foot was over the axle of the pedal.

It just feels really awkward when in a climb, out of the saddle, with the ball of your foot doing the pedaling.

Also, it feels like the bike isn't balanced right when i'm climbing in clipless, whereas with the straps and flat pedals i felt really comfortable out of the seat and leaning the bike left and right whilst climbing hills....

Still, as you say it may be due to not covering much mileage, i've started riding again and intend doing 10 miles every morning from tommorrow so will give it a couple of weeks and see how things go, this should be long enough shouldn't it? :?

redddraggon

softlad wrote:

eh wrote:

i seem to be pedaling on the ball of my foot

This is how you are supposed to pedal, not with the arch of your foot.

exactly right. if you are trying to push the pedals with the arch of your foot, you will never, ever achieve a proper pedal motion. The pedal's axle is supposed to bisect the ball of your foot - not the arch...

Debatable. There have been studies on pedalling with the arch of the foot and it was found to be better for some people.

Cheshley

Everyone has their own opinion on the clipless issue and everyone has their own preference for shoe and pedal combinations. Personally I have the same pedals on my road bike as I have on the MTB's, M520's and I have Lake MX305 shoes that I use for all occasions. The sole is stiff enough for road riding but has just enough flex if I have to get off and walk when off-road. My choice of shoe is somewhat limited as I wear a (European) size 50 and not many manufacturers make them that big.

Considering that you have said that once you get clipped in, you don't feel any advantage over the toe clips you used to use, I would say go back to using the toe clips. You're not happy with the SPD-SL's and have no confidence using them but you're happy with toe clips and enjoyed riding with them, and isn't that the most important thing....?

softlad

redddraggon wrote:

Debatable. There have been studies on pedalling with the arch of the foot and it was found to be better for some people.

'some people' - like people who have had part of their foot amputated, forward of the instep....??

Soni

Cheshley wrote:

Considering that you have said that once you get clipped in, you don't feel any advantage over the toe clips you used to use, I would say go back to using the toe clips. You're not happy with the SPD-SL's and have no confidence using them but you're happy with toe clips and enjoyed riding with them, and isn't that the most important thing....?

Absolutely, i have been so close to putting the shoes and pedals up on Ebay but then at the last minute, think 'what if it is just a question of getting used to them'....

I would hate to make the mistake of selling them and not giving myself a change to adapt as once they are sold, it will be impossible to convince my Mrs to let me pay out another 100 or so notes on another set of shoes and pedals......understandable if i've just lost money on them by selling the previous pair on Ebay.

I have been looking over the net the last couple of days regarding the clipless pedals, and also been looking at setting up a racing bike on YouTube, and the videos mention the best improvement you can make are the disc type wheels for aerodynamics and also if you have flat pedals and straps then to change them to clipless......

julietp

Obviously I would persevere for a bit longer but if you really don't like them go back to toe clips - At the end of the day at least then you'll be out cycling and enjoying it again and that's the main thing. You can always buy mountain bike ones to try at a later date.

I used toe clips for years and then bought mountain bike pedals for my road bike - double sided SPD's - I've used these for a couple of years and never had a 'clipless moment' but going up hills I do feel slightly unstable when out of the saddle in comparison.

Chaz.Harding

Soni

I read the first page, and subsequently couldn't be bothered to read the others. If you want to give up, fine. Not a problem, sell your kit and equipment.

If, however, you actually have a back-bone, and want to do something that you will enjoy when you get it right, will make you fitter, faster and leaner than alot of folks around. Gives you a different way of life than most other folks (in a good way) and enjoy your time on bikes - and not feel jealous of anyone you see riding a bike - listen in.

I have some Crank Brothers 'Egg-Beater' pedals, and some Specialized 'Body Geometry' shoes. The shoes are comfortable, reasonably warm, but not too hot, and I can walk in them. Wouldn't like to be trekking miles, but they aren't that bad (see linky at bottom).

The pedals have a 4 sided entry on them, and there are pedals to suit all budgets and weight consiousnesses. They have some degree of float, require almost zero maintainence, and are totally user friendly, and intuitive.

Egg Beater SL and Specialized BG Shoes are my current setup, and work pretty well. Light, stiff, comfortable, low / no maintainence, and easy!. You can find them ALOT cheaper if you look around. Oh, and another thing - with clippy pedals, be they MTB or road, if you fall off, they will dis-engage. If you have toe-straps, your feet will stay attatched to your bike, making dislocations, muscle and ligament damage, and breaks SO MUCH easier to achieve. It's up to you.

JPJ

Practice, practice, practice, clip in, clip out, left side, right side, different speeds, different crank positions, find an empty carpark and practice....

Practice balancing at low speeds, not trying to rip your foot out at the last minute, but anticipating, relax and enjoy!

It will become second nature..

Clipless pedals are fantastic, they allow a greater level of control not less, the shoes are stiff to enable a full transfer of the power from your legs to the pedals to the cranks etc.

You can get cleat covers which slip on over the cleats to make walking marginally easier, but road shoes are designed for riding not walking.

I use cycling to get away from the stresses of everyday life, not to add to them, once you have you have the confidence back you'll be fine.

Don't give up!

John Stevenson

Despite 20-odd years of using clipless pedals, I can understand why you don't like them Soni. And, damn, isn't there a lot of macho bollocks being talked here?

If you want to be able to walk easily off the bike, then a mountain bike system is the way to go. You get the big advantages of a stiff shoe and firm attachment to the pedal, without the disadvantage of pedals that are hard to get into until you get the knack.

If you can afford to do so, put the single-sided stuff down to experience and get a basic pair of double-sided MTB pedals (20 to 40 quid from Wiggle, depending on exactly what you get) and appropriate shoes (about 50 quid).

You can always pull the single-sided gear out of mothballs when you are completely used to MTB-style clipless.