Bah, more diesel, another helmet

jedster

I've bored at length about an off last year on a diesel spill. Just had another one this morning. Feeling unlucky or incompetent but nor sure what I should have done differently.

This time it happened on a bend that I ride everyday but always treat with respect. It's a fairly tight moderately steep downhill lefthand/righthand combination. I just lost the front wheel. Probably was going a bit slower than the last crash, turning more sharply. Had I got off the brakes before I started to turn? Possibly not, can't be sure.

As seems to happen in these cases (based on my sample of two!) the forks just turn freely in the head set as the front wheel loses all traction. Almost immediately the head tube seems to fire itself at the tarmac. You fall sideways very fast. Left hip, elbow and knee are all a bit sore but the initial hit was shoulder and head. Nastiest injury is to my right (i.e., opposite) hand which must have got jammed between the lever and the road. X-ray is clear so just a nasty sprain/bruise but feels like someone hit the base of my thumb with a hammer.

Distinctly fed up. I reckon it'll be a few weeks before I can grip enough to get back on the bike. Bah.

I was a bit dazed afterwards and the helmet got a real rattle on the road. Sure enough it's been crushed and split in the mirror image place to my previous helmet in last year's fall. I reckon it did its job. Had thought, after the last one, that this was an example of an unusual accident in which helmets are genuinely useful. I'm now wondering how unusual it really is.

Take care,

J

biondino

Buns? Jash?

il_principe

biondino wrote:

Buns? Jash?

What? I've fallen on diesel at speed, helmet took no impact at all. Not sure what your point is. Anyway Blondie, IT'S MY HEAD!

always_tyred

What is it about people who drive Diesels, eh? You never hear about petrol being spilled on the road.

biondino

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

Buns? Jash?

What? I've fallen on diesel at speed, helmet took no impact at all. Not sure what your point is. Anyway Blondie, IT'S MY HEAD!

No, I was wanting you to tell our poster why he shouldn't have been wearing a helmet.

Feltup

Petrol spills usually evaporate or you get a Hollywood explosion but usually the former!

il_principe

biondino wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

Buns? Jash?

What? I've fallen on diesel at speed, helmet took no impact at all. Not sure what your point is. Anyway Blondie, IT'S MY HEAD!

No, I was wanting you to tell our poster why he shouldn't have been wearing a helmet.

It's none of my concern, besides which you don't know what would have happened had the OP not worn a helmet, his head might not have touched the ground... might might might, who knows. I don't care about other people wearing them or not, I care about being preached to by those who do.

jedster

What is it about people who drive Diesels, eh? You never hear about petrol being spilled on the road.

petrol is very volatile as Feltup points out, diesel hangs around. The other thing is that trucks use diesel and I believe they are more prone to slopping from overfilled tanks.

J

wgwarburton

Always Tyred wrote:

What is it about people who drive Diesels, eh? You never hear about petrol being spilled on the road.

... don't know if that's a genuine question or not? I'll answer anyway in case someone wants to know: Petrol is more volatile and evaporates quickly. Diesel hangs around for longer and, particularly when wet, acts as a lubricant....

Cheers,
W.

roger_merriman

much like ice not a lot one can do about it bar hope your'll pass it before you need to turn etc,

mostly from lorries etc, being thick stuff it's slippery and doesn't turn to vapours.

Christophe3967

Bad luck Jedster - not sure what you can do differently. I've also come off on a diesel (I think) spill at 22 mph going straight over a roundabout at the Barbican. No warning - the back wheel just went. Similar injuries, apart from head; still don't have full use of shoulder 18 months later but getting better slowly. I am more circumspect on corners especially in the rain, and for some strange reason still can't bring myself to ride no hands. I wasn't wearing a lid though and didn't hit my head - I just slid a long way along the road in the opposite direction to my bike. I was back on the bike next day, but couldn't use the front brake without huge pain, so took it really steadily for a week or so. Hopefully you'll be back in action in no time.

wgwarburton

It's a tricky one, this... You hear from people that have come off on diesel with a helmet and claim it must have saved them, as it's got dinged up. You also hear from some who've come off bareheaded and not hit their head at all.

There's a conspicuous lack of contributions from people who've come off, either helmeted or not, and smashed their skulls open, I suspect they may be under-reported...

:-(

Cheers,
W.

Rich158

WGWarburton wrote:

It's a tricky one, this... You hear from people that have come off on diesel with a helmet and claim it must have saved them, as it's got dinged up. You also hear from some who've come off bareheaded and not hit their head at all.

There's a conspicuous lack of contributions from people who've come off, either helmeted or not, and smashed their skulls open, I suspect they may be under-reported...

:-(

Cheers,
W.

Or just unable to report!!!!

I had a near miss nipping accross a mini roundabout this morning, luckily it was the back end that went so I managed to save it. Lorries slopping diesel must account for pretty much every roundabout with 1/2 mile of a filling station in my area being like riding on an ice rink :shock:

Kieran_Burns

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

Buns? Jash?

What? I've fallen on diesel at speed, helmet took no impact at all. Not sure what your point is. Anyway Blondie, IT'S MY HEAD!

No, I was wanting you to tell our poster why he shouldn't have been wearing a helmet.

It's none of my concern, besides which you don't know what would have happened had the OP not worn a helmet, his head might not have touched the ground... might might might, who knows. I don't care about other people wearing them or not, I care about being preached to by those who do.

You two gentleman have your own thread to throw rattles at each other from your respective prams. Could I respectfully suggest you do so and not turn this thread in a collateral rattle damage zone?


To the OP - I have only once taken a tumble on my bike due to diesel, and that was on a VERY busy roundabout. I went down like a sack of spuds but bounced straight back up as I was so terrified at being hit by traffic on or entering the roundabout.

I remember the front wheel just disappearing as I pulled away, me crashing down, then me bouncing up grabbing the bike and leaping off the roundabout onto the pavement all in the space of a second.

I actually got straight back on the bike and cycled home and THEN realised I was in bleeding agony all down one side. I could barely move for the next day I was so stiff, but at the time I didn't even notice.

lost_in_thought

Sorry to hear about your encounter, glad to hear there's no major damage.

Never hit any diesel myself, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time, sounds rather unavoidable!

It's costing you a fortune in helmets!

u01akrg

The diesel fairy has caught me twice now. Once on a corner less than 1/2 mile from home - after a 2 hour club ride on a wet & dark night (and admittedly I was going too fast - it had been a slow night). 2nd time on a mini roundabout going at next to no speed at all. Both times the bike just shot sideways from under me, I hit the ground on my right hip, elbow and shoulder, and then slid along for a bit (managed an impressive distance the first time!).

While it hurt (a lot) it wasn't as bad as previous posters, and the bike has sustained only superficial scratches to the right pedal, bar tape on the right drop, and rear mech (luckily the hanger is still straight).

Isn't there some place you can report this, and receive compensation for more severe damage (to bike and/or person)?

Edit: I was wearing a helmet on both occaisions, but it didn't touch the ground either time - first time I think I had a bit of whiplash though...

biondino

WGWarburton wrote:

It's a tricky one, this... You hear from people that have come off on diesel with a helmet and claim it must have saved them, as it's got dinged up. You also hear from some who've come off bareheaded and not hit their head at all.

There's a conspicuous lack of contributions from people who've come off, either helmeted or not, and smashed their skulls open, I suspect they may be under-reported...

:-(

Cheers,
W.

If I'd been riding without a helmet and smashed my skull open after slipping on diesel I might well be too embarrassed to tell other people about it

Ahem - Kieran_burns, you're right, it won't happen again. Promise.

always_tyred

WGWarburton wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

What is it about people who drive Diesels, eh? You never hear about petrol being spilled on the road.

... don't know if that's a genuine question or not?

er...no, it wasn't.

I think another big reason is that typically diesel vehicles emit more uncombusted fuel than petrol ones. Large goods vehicles kick out enough when they pull away (sudden throttle opening) particularly when cold to leave mini slicks perfectly positioned to scupper cyclists.

A visible film of oil on water can be only 1 or 2 molecules thick. Just like Fairy liquid, a little can go a long way.

I also think that much of what we call "diesel" is actually lubricants of various sorts leaking from crappy old vehicles..... like mine.....

cjcp

Jedster - unlucky fella. Hope you're back on the bike soon.

Feltup

Yeah I should have said hope you recover quickly. Diesel or other slippery spills are lethal because they can happen almost anywhere but usually on a corner just where you don't need it. I have had several incidents or near misses with diesel the last time was cornering quite quickly on my bike when the back wheel stepped out. I steered in to the slide without thinking and luckliy the back wheel suddenly gripped and juddered with an accompanying sound of spokes twanging. Very scary!

The scariest time however was in my old MGF. I entered a slip road on to the M4 and put my foot down to get up to speed. The F is rear wheel drive so the back end snapped out as it hit the diesel and I was almost instantly sideways travelling down the slip road. Once again I somehow caught it with lots of opposite lock and not a little luck.

Diesel sucks!

Rich158

Feltup wrote:

The scariest time however was in my old MGF. I entered a slip road on to the M4 and put my foot down to get up to speed. The F is rear wheel drive so the back end snapped out as it hit the diesel and I was almost instantly sideways travelling down the slip road. Once again I somehow caught it with lots of opposite lock and not a little luck.

Diesel sucks!

i had a similar incident a few years ago joining the M2, there used to be a very tight 270 degree turn on the slip road to get down onto it coming from Chatham, I put the power down and before I knew where I was I was sitting on the hard shoulder facing the wrong way :shock:

I've always managed to catch the bike so far

wgwarburton

u01akrg wrote:

The diesel fairy has caught me twice now. ....

I like that... Anyone else have a mental picture of the "Diesel Fairy"... ?

Cheers,
W.

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

Buns? Jash?

What? I've fallen on diesel at speed, helmet took no impact at all. Not sure what your point is. Anyway Blondie, IT'S MY HEAD!

No, I was wanting you to tell our poster why he shouldn't have been wearing a helmet.

Personally I think it's a bit crass to be using the OP's very real and very recent misfortune to try and prove a trivial point from another thread.

I also find it ironic that a stout liberal as yourself is forcing this point so much. It's as though you want to remove Jash's right to personal choice of whether he should or should not wear a helmet.

DonDaddyD

Jedster I'm sorry to read about your unfortunate accident.

Hope your back on your bike soon!

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Jedster I'm sorry to read about your unfortunate accident.

Hope your back on your bike soon!

+1

DomPro

Hi jedster, sorry to hear about your slip up on a diesel spill.

Was the ground wet by any chance? I always thought that diesel on the road is only slippery when the ground is wet and lifts the diesel to the surface making it slippery. I'd guess its caused mainly by trucks/;lorries with exposed and leaky fuel tanks. Find it hard to believe a modern Vauxhal diesel could be losing any unspent fuel from the system.

Its a bugger for motorbikes to.

biondino

DonDaddyD wrote:

biondino wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

Buns? Jash?

What? I've fallen on diesel at speed, helmet took no impact at all. Not sure what your point is. Anyway Blondie, IT'S MY HEAD!

No, I was wanting you to tell our poster why he shouldn't have been wearing a helmet.

Personally I think it's a bit crass to be using the OP's very real and very recent misfortune to try and prove a trivial point from another thread.

I also find it ironic that a stout liberal as yourself is forcing this point so much. It's as though you want to remove Jash's right to personal choice of whether he should or should not wear a helmet.

I agree with you on point one, it is crass and I apologised for it (so why you're bringing it up I don't know - rather crass in itself since we'd moved on) but do you not actually read what I write? I've repeatedly said in my last few posts on the subject that Jash and everyone else has every right to do what they like!

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

I agree with you on point one, it is crass and I apologised for it (so why you're bringing it up I don't know - rather crass in itself since we'd moved on)

I didn't read the apology you wrote in this thread or what Kieran_Burns wrote.

biondino wrote:

but do you not actually read what I write? I've repeatedly said in my last few posts on the subject that Jash and everyone else has every right to do what they like!

I accept that and you have claimed that everyone has a right to do what they want. But to then continually point out and preach why you think they're wrong to do so smacks of not actually accepting it at all.

It's like a son telling their Mum they're Gay, the Mother claiming to accept it and then continually telling the son why she thinks homosexuals are wrong.

Of course you are entitled to your own opinions and a right to express them. But its like saying one thing and doing the other.

jedster

Thanks for the sympathy folks. Bit sore today as you can imagine. Right thumb no good for anything which is a nuisance.

A couple of follow ups:

The road wasn't really wet although it was grey, overcast and generally humid. I suspect these are bad conditions, if it is hosing it down then I reckon the road probably gets cleaned up a bit.

As someone says you do tend to get delayed pain from these things, adrenaline flows at the time which does tend to make you bounce up (good thing if you are sprawled in the middle of a busy road!). If you really rattle your head/helmet you do tend to get slowed down a bit. On these two occassions when I've trashed my helmet, it has taken me a second or two to get up, I've been a bit disorientated. When I've come off and not hit my helmet, I've bounced up fast.

Incidently, I have had falls when I didn't hit my helmet at all. I've had others when the helmet has scraped/scuffed the road (really think a bare head would not have touched). And I've now had two when I've given the tarmac a good butting. I'm not telling anyone to wear a helmet but please don't tell yourself that I probably would not have hit my head in these incidents if I'd been helmetless. I'll try to post some pics of my helmet - the foam squashed and cracked in three places - not a glancing blow. It would be interesting to try and replicate the damage with a mallet. Reckon you'd need to take a pretty good swing.

J

jedster

BTW, finally got round to replacing my bar tape last weekend.

Doh!

On the bright side, the new light I fitted survived:

http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP6841.aspx?Track=FGL

B+M cyo dyno light. Absolutely fantastic product. Really good light even at low speed uphill on unlit country roads. Bolts to your bike so you don't have to worry about removing it when you lock the bike. Never need to worry about batteries/charging. I've used and liked other B+M ligts but as well as the extra power this one seem better made and has a much better mounting bracket.

I'm amazed so few commuters run dynohub systems.

J