Decent Living Wage

pottssteve

Hi All,
I'm considering a move back to Europe, possibly back to the UK, and want to know if I can afford to live there.

I realise that there will be variations, but I'm assuming a mortgage/rent of about 650 quid a month or so. Bearing in mind tax, utilities, council tax, running a small car, internet, food etc., what's a reasonable yearly or monthly income on which to live and not be left in penury at the end of the month? We are a family of three.

Any advice would be helpful, thanks.

STEFANOS4784

Crikey there's a lot of variables in that post. Depends on the lifestyle to which your acustomed, i would say 350k a year should cover it 8)

I earn about 21k a year but don't have a family so have bits to spare for bikes but that really is a tricky question :?

Tom Butcher

Very hard to answer that without risking sounding completely out of touch - so I wont.

DonDaddyD

Telling us where do you want to live in the UK would help.

A one bedroom flat in wimbledon will cost around £850 - £950. Further out Streatham, Croydon etc and your looking at the £600 mark. On a three bedroom place, not sure but more than likely over £1000 a month (in London).

In terms of salary I think to begin to live comfortably in London you need to be earning between £25,000 - £30,000 a year (though, I'm told people do live on less).

STEFANOS4784

Also don't forget the 'credit crunch' :roll:

Depending on your profession and your willingness to take a salary decrese it might be tricky to find work :?:

STEFANOS4784

DonDaddyD wrote:

A one bedroom flat in wimbledon will cost around £850 - £950

:shock: Ouch, i could get a mortgage on a house out in these 'ere sticks for that kinda cash :shock:

drewfromrisca

In terms of salary I think to begin to live comfortably in London you need to be earning between £25,000 - £30,000 a year (though, I'm told people do live on less).[/quote]

Christ, I earn close to 40 grand and I struggle!!!

gabriel959

Good thing is house prices are crashing and are probably going to go down around 60% to 70% down from peak 2007 so affordability shouldnt be a problem. That is probably the best thing of this depression (see I didn't call it a recession).

That's of course if you can find a job, things are going to get very tough, we haven't seen anything.

P.S: Cambridge is a nice place to live, plenty of bike shops and clubs, loads of lovely places to ride to and not as expensive as london

Smokin Joe

What the Eff do you want to come back to this dump for? If I was younger I'd be off like a shot.

pottssteve

Thanks for the "information", guys. I forgot to mention that I wouldn't touch London with a barge pole. It's a world class dump. Last time I was there it took me close to 2 hours to go from Tottenham Court Rd to King's Rd by bus! It's a hole.
Possibly thinking South coast as the wife has family there.
Cheers,
Steve

Anonymous

Sand Banks?

Headhuunter

drewfromrisca wrote:

In terms of salary I think to begin to live comfortably in London you need to be earning between £25,000 - £30,000 a year (though, I'm told people do live on less).

Christ, I earn close to 40 grand and I struggle!!![/quote]

I'm not surprised, that wouldn't even keep me in shoes, daaaaahlinks...

chuckcork

All depends on where you live, how big and fancy a property you want, which will also affect the Council tax you pay. In Surbiton we're paying £1200 a month for an older style 2 bed house with no garden that attracts another £160 pcm in council tax.

We're thinking of moving out to Woking, which will be actually more convenient for my and my missus work, where a larger, more modern property with a bigger garden would be instead closer to £1050 a month.

Shopping can be pricey as well, Waitrose if you have the cash is expensive, Lidl and Aldi are at the other, budget end of things and more affordable but no help if there is none near you. Difference in shopping there isn't much different to Sainsbury's, but is substantial compared to more expensive supermarkets.

As noted getting a job could be difficult, it has taken me over 3 months to get one sorted, and thats not counting the 2 months I was looking in Ireland before giving up and moving back over here. And now I have a job sorted, and then on a reduced salary from what I would normally expect to get (back to what I was earning something like 8 years ago) they tell me they have been needing someone since September and couldn't find anyone! Mutter mutter....

While I'm quite experienced in my field that is no help if every firm you could have expected to get a job with even a year ago is laying off equally experienced staff as seems to be happening with frightening regularity. My brother-in-law has the same problem, he would rather be working in Ireland and near family but is in Singapore as there are no jobs going at the moment, his colleagues he was at college with are in the same boat, as are my former co-workers in their search for work post-redundancy.

Its just all depends, but your estimate as to living costs seems on the highly optimistic side of the balance sheet, so good luck with finding a job that will pay.

pottssteve

Thanks all.
Especially to Chuckcork for taking the time to type.

I'd prefer mainland Europe (for the culture, the weather, the lifestyle and the cycling!), but I'm open to options. I teach, so my work's not really been affected by the economy so much. As long as people keep breeding I'll keep knocking the ignorance out of them...

gkerr4

pottssteve wrote:

Thanks all.
Especially to Chuckcork for taking the time to type.

I'd prefer mainland Europe (for the culture, the weather, the lifestyle and the cycling!), but I'm open to options. I teach, so my work's not really been affected by the economy so much. As long as people keep breeding I'll keep knocking the ignorance out of them...

well then as a teacher your wage requirement is kind of set out for you (excluding supply / contractor rates and private school contracts)

the teacher scales are set out nationally with a london weighting where applicable. A UK teacher with no additional responsibility points earns between 20,627 (25,000 london) and 30,148 (34,768) across 6 points which reflect experience. TLR (teaching and learning responsibility) points are added for being, for example, head of department / faculty or some appropriate leadership function.

drewfromrisca

pottsteve - don't move to South Wales if your looking at getting into teaching!!! My sister can't find anything permanent only supply days a few here and there. A mate of mine travels all the way to Forest Of Dean everyday from the valleys as it was only place he could get and an ex-girlfriend is looking at losing her job at a Comprehensive school in Newport and can't find anything else around.

Special K

If you earn more than 40K you will be in the top 10% of earners in the UK

If you earn less than 40K and live on the south coast without a mortgage/rent then you might find it difficult to enjoy the same standard of living as you do in Hong Kong.

It will feel like a different world, trust me. Even with a 100K a year, getting decent service, lifestyle, insurance and savings, it is pretty hard to match what you can enjoy in Hong Kong on a lot less.

Coming back from HK you will end up spending on stuff you either don't have to worry about or are much cheaper there than in the UK: sending the kids to a decent school, fitting a burglar alarm, buying and running a car, eating out, cleaners and childcare, paying tax, paying some more tax, paying and then paying some more.

cjcp

I live close to Chuckcork. Council tax is a real kicker. And the schools situation is appalling. Before you move anywhere, you need to check whether your child will get into the school - don't assume that just because you're in the catchment area, your child will get in.

Out of date, but may be informative: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4796075.stm

How about Geneva? Lots of ex-pats with children who need teaching and, obviously, great cycling close by.

Captain Fagor

On the assumption that those near the top end of the following salary scales are happy with their lot, you can gain a feel for what salary would provide a comfortable living standard from these links:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/P ... vlnk=13101

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

Going back to an earlier comment on £41k gross getting you into the top 10% of earning power, that is correct when considering both male and female employees. Considering men only, that figure is nearer £50k. See: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/ ... ab1_1a.xls

chuckcork

Interesting, one of those links places me and the missus in the "higher than 94% of the UK" area. I would not have thought that to be the case....I certainly don't feel rich, just getting by with a less than lavish lifestyle in fact, e.g. have thought about getting another bike on the cycle to work scheme but don't think we can afford it at present.

ColinJ

I'm single, no kids and I don't drive so I obviously don't need as much money as most of you. I could get by nicely on £14k and I would feel really well off if I was earning £18k+. I can hardly even imagine earning £40k..!

pottssteve

Hi Folks,
Interesting stuff, and I appreciate the time people have taken to pass on info and links.

I have taught in the UK before so know about the pay scales etc. I've also lived in S Wales and don't fancy teaching there (I'll leave it at that... ).

As for Geneva, well, it's on my "places to live and work" list. The wife has lived in Switzerland and she says that we would be poor in Geneva, even pulling in 100,000 euros or so a year! :shock: I tell her I know, but THINK OF THE CYCLING.

I think I'll stay here for a bit longer, save up, and then go to the Continent!

chuckcork

Switzerland isn't in the Eurozone AFIK

cjcp

pottssteve wrote:

As for Geneva, well, it's on my "places to live and work" list. The wife has lived in Switzerland and she says that we would be poor in Geneva, even pulling in 100,000 euros or so a year! :shock: I tell her I know, but THINK OF THE CYCLING.

Exactly! Think of the cycling!

I understand that a lot of people live an hour or more's drive out of Geneva, some even in France because it was cheaper than living in Geneva.

And, yep, Swiss Francs.

nwallace

A mate was looking at IT contracting fees in London,

In Dundee he gets paid around 35k, for what he does it's around 50k in London.
We worked out that the equivalent of 35k in Dundee us probably nearer 70k in London.
Even Edinburgh you need a significant increase in salary to make it worthwhile moving.

cjcp

Potts - for house and rent prices, have a look on www.rightmove.co.uk.

RB1260

I lived 25km east of Geneva for three years and it was superb. Top quality cycling on my front door step plus the added bonus of some of the best skiing in the world. However Switzerland is very expensive and unless you're mega rich the tax breaks are non exsistent!

Due to work opportunities my wife and I decided to move back. We relocated to Sevenoaks (Kent) and can highly recommend the area for anyone moving back to the UK, the perfect blend of suburbia and countryside all rolled in to one. Not sure about the teaching opportunities but there seem to be some very good private schools which I'm sure would welcome a decent teacher with open arms.

N4PALM

Single bloke in a cheap flat (£80 per week), theres no point in getting out of bed for less than £13k pa.

Most peoples rent is way more expensive than that. Its damn near impossible to live on minimum wage.

pottssteve

Thanks once again, folks, especially for the links and info.

RB1260 - out of interest, do you mind if I ask what you were paid and how that panned out financially? La Suisse is certainly high on the list!
Cheers,
Steve

finchy

Have you considered some of the new EU countries? Places like Czech Republic and Slovenia have a high standard of living, house prices are OK, especially if you've got some savings and they have a very good education system. Teachers are respected and you won't have to put with some of the shyte you'd get in a school in the UK. The countries I've mentioned are also spectacularly beautiful and getting ever wealthier.

I'm assuming you teach English anyway, obviously if you teach maths then this is no good to you, unless you're willing to learn a very difficult language.

My Mum and stepdad are teachers, and I really wouldn't recommend coming back to work in our education system. The profession, especially "leadership" (read twats), is becoming filled up with self-important morons, who know a bit of jargon and how to do a presentation to get a job, but f-all about education. I'm not going to go into details - as I'm sure you've guessed from my sweary post, I get rather angry when I think about what's happening to our schools at the moment.

pottssteve

Hi johnfinch,
I'm actually a Science teacher, currently working in an international school. There are a lot of int schools around the world - I've worked in NZ, Germany and Malaysia, but I want to find somewhere acceptable for the whole family. I wouldn't consider living in the places you mention as it's just quite hard on a daily basis. I've been to Slovenia, for example, it's beautiful, but living there is a different ball game. I think we're down to a couple of countries where we would consider, one being Switzerland and the other being the UK!

I would have to agree with you on the quality of "management" in the education sector. Add to that a new "initiative" introduced each week, an erosion of teaching as a profession and the lack of basic respect which people seem to have for each other, then I'm not over-enthusiastic about the UK myself!

However, it's really refreshing to have people give time, thought and effort to answer my posting, so thank you for that.

Steve