Road rage incident today

ben_davies66

I was out for a ride today with a friend but just as we were finishing it I experienced what I think was some really bad road rage. As we were coming onto Winchester Road in Southampton there was quite alot of rush hour traffic waiting at a traffic light, as there was space we went between the two lanes of queing cars and ended up at the front of the traffic lights. When we were pulling away from the lights the second car to pass us accelerated really close by and beeped his horn. To this I stuck up my middle finger (which I now realise was the wrong thing to do..) The guy pulled into the side and swung open his door which we had to swerve to avoid, he then got back in his car and accelerated past us, then swerved into the side again so that we couldnt move on. Then he got out of his car shouting and stuck his finger up right in my facing saying I shouldnt do it cos it really annoyed him, then he started shaking his fist in my face saying he could knock me out.. This went on for a few minutes holding up all the cars behind; I was in too much shock to do much! When he did drive off he had to stop at some more lights not far up, where I got his plate to which he got out and added a few more words of advice..

Sorry this is quite long winded, think im still in shock! The whole thing was very intimidating. Anyway I was wondering what if anything I should do about it, I mean I did swear at him but we hadnt done anything to make him so aggressive in the first place. Also if I call the police is it alot of hassle/ worth the effort?

MrHulot

No excuse - go see plod - they now seem to take that sort of thing more seriously now - the finger or not he shouldn't have driven or acted like that. I've reported a couple over the last few months including an artic that near wiped me out. Apparently with the registration number they can simply send a letter with the comment like we're watching you.

alfablue

Dreadful!

Yes, it is absolutely worth the effort to call the Police (fingers crossed they will be having a good day). If not for your direct benefit, then for the benefit of his future victims, who may not escape unscathed. By the way, he assaulted you if he put you in fear of harm with his threats.

cougie

Yes - worth a go. I do try and rise above the abuse from drivers now - as you find out - giving it back to them leads to potentially dangerous escalation.

Hope you get over it soon.

synchronicity

I sympathise.

Your story rings a bell... the only difference being that it involved a slightly stronger wanker-type wrist response on my part and two the driver doing two separate u-turns to try and intercept me. :shock:

Moral of the story. Don't give symbols to drivers. They can easily catch you. :x :evil:

ringo42

Definitely contact the Police. Not only was he aggressive and abusive to yourselves but he was also driving dangerously.
Did you get the plates of any "witness" cars as this would make any case against him easier to bring.
I've done this once before, not on the bike but in the car myself. The Police took a statement, visited the driver but were unable to do anything because i didn't have a witness and he of course denied it.
Never know, it might be caught on a CCTV camera if you're lucky.

Good luck

drewfromrisca

.

Slow Downcp

As everyone else says - report it to the police. It may be they have had previous similar complaints also in which case they will take it more seriously - if not, then they have record so if it happens again he'll be marked down as a repeat offender.

ben_davies66

Thanks guys for all of your advice. I've just talked to the police and reported the events, they were really helpful and by the sounds of it they will be taking it further.

snakehips

Please let us know if there is any follow up




Snakehips Bikes

teagar

Might be worth not sticking your finger up in future, however much of a wanker the guy is.

antfly

I got about 4 honks from one van as he passed me yesterday in similar circumstances,he looked in his mirror for a response ,I totally ignored it as I always do these days,just assumed he was honking at someone else.End of incident.Let them honk,who cares?

alfablue

forum playing up

alfablue

[duplicate post - forum playing up :roll: ]

alfablue

drewfromrisca wrote:

By the way, he assaulted you if he put you in fear of harm with his threats

Sorry but he hasn't. It's a public order offence. For assault you have to have hands/weapons on.

Sorry, but it is assault

Both in the common law and under statute, the actus reus of a common assault is committed when one person causes another to apprehend or fear that force is about to be used to cause some degree of personal contact and possible injury.

Note the key words: "fear" "about to be used"

If someone makes threats of physical attack ("...knock me out") whilst "..sticking finger in my face" and "waving fist in my face", I think it is reasonable to assume the victim was in fear that force was about to be used - hence an assault. Neither use of weapons or actual violence or even physical contact are necessary for it to be an assault.

If hands are laid on, this would be assault and battery, if harm was caused this could be assault occasioning actual bodily harm. 3 distinct offences.

drewfromrisca

..

Sirius631

drewfromrisca wrote:

Its a Sect 5 POA 1986 offence. No custody Sergeant/CPS lawyer/Magistrate would see it any other way. If someone reported this incident to me then they would be reported for Sect 5 Public Order as they have been done on many occasions in my 10 year career as a Police Officer.

In reality, common assault is only used in situations where a blow or another application of force is struck, but when no actual injury results.

The Public Order Act 1986, Section 5 states:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

Would the OP's original 'middle finger' be taken as abusive behaviour? Best to keep the digit down, to be on the safe side. IMHO.

alfablue

drewfromrisca wrote:

Its a Sect 5 POA 1986 offence. No custody Sergeant/CPS lawyer/Magistrate would see it any other way. If someone reported this incident to me then they would be reported for Sect 5 Public Order as they have been done on many occasions in my 10 year career as a Police Officer.

In reality, common assault is only used in situations where a blow or another application of force is struck, but when no actual injury results.

The Public Order Act 1986, Section 5 states:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

I don't doubt your knowledge on this, and clearly this is how such incidents may be treated, nevertheless it falls within a definition of assault.

Coincidently, Jose Mourinho is currently being investigated for "Common Assault" (Greater Manchester Police's own words) following an allegation that he punched a fan last night, so this is in keeping with your assertion of how this offence is regarded.

drewfromrisca

..

Tempestas

Definitely report it, if he continues to get away with it the next person may not be so lucky. If he swerves towards you with his car, that's dangerous driving and someone could get injured.

Out on a club run the other day we had a Merc driver swerve towards us, he had a clenched facial expression and was obviously in a foul mood, luckily one of the riders with us was a Policeman and just took the number down and when next on duty popped around his house and 'had a word'.

ben_davies66

I realise that sticking up my finger wasnt the best thing to do, however in some sort of defence it was in reaction to his original aggressive behaviour and I really dont think it warrented his later reaction. The fact that I had given him the finger was what made me think twice about calling the police, but then I realised I should report it in case he has done similar things in the past and might make him think again before acting in the same way in the future.

pneumatic

A good idea, if you have the presence of mind (which I did not the last time something like this happened to me) is to take not only the plate of the offending driver, but also the plate of the car behind you. They see what you see. That makes them a witness.

In my experience Police will follow up your report with a call to the owner of the vehicle involved but they are unable to do anything more without a third party witness statement. Give them two references to follow up and they have something to go on.

Aggieboy

alfablue wrote:

drewfromrisca wrote:

Its a Sect 5 POA 1986 offence. No custody Sergeant/CPS lawyer/Magistrate would see it any other way. If someone reported this incident to me then they would be reported for Sect 5 Public Order as they have been done on many occasions in my 10 year career as a Police Officer.

In reality, common assault is only used in situations where a blow or another application of force is struck, but when no actual injury results.

The Public Order Act 1986, Section 5 states:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

I don't doubt your knowledge on this, and clearly this is how such incidents may be treated, nevertheless it falls within a definition of assault.

Coincidently, Jose Mourinho is currently being investigated for "Common Assault" (Greater Manchester Police's own words) following an allegation that he punched a fan last night, so this is in keeping with your assertion of how this offence is regarded.

'Drewfromrisca' I'm afraid you are wrong. An arrest for s5 POA only applies after a warning is given and the person fails to desist. Therefore you (police) need to be present. This is an assault and should be reported as such if the OP wishes. 'Hands on/weapons' to use your parlance is irrelevant.

downfader

ben_davies66 wrote:

I was out for a ride today with a friend but just as we were finishing it I experienced what I think was some really bad road rage. As we were coming onto Winchester Road in Southampton there was quite alot of rush hour traffic waiting at a traffic light, as there was space we went between the two lanes of queing cars and ended up at the front of the traffic lights. When we were pulling away from the lights the second car to pass us accelerated really close by and beeped his horn. To this I stuck up my middle finger (which I now realise was the wrong thing to do..) The guy pulled into the side and swung open his door which we had to swerve to avoid, he then got back in his car and accelerated past us, then swerved into the side again so that we couldnt move on. Then he got out of his car shouting and stuck his finger up right in my facing saying I shouldnt do it cos it really annoyed him, then he started shaking his fist in my face saying he could knock me out.. This went on for a few minutes holding up all the cars behind; I was in too much shock to do much! When he did drive off he had to stop at some more lights not far up, where I got his plate to which he got out and added a few more words of advice..

Sorry this is quite long winded, think im still in shock! The whole thing was very intimidating. Anyway I was wondering what if anything I should do about it, I mean I did swear at him but we hadnt done anything to make him so aggressive in the first place. Also if I call the police is it alot of hassle/ worth the effort?

I know that road well and know the police will take it seriously (they took my accident seriously) so get down the civic. If they ask you obviously gave the finger out of reaction to the guys shocking behaviour.It is also perfectly legal to filter through the traffic as long as it was safe.

I know that road well. What time was this? I rode through there yesterday with the helmet camera on.Something I do everytime I ride now - seems to be a good deterrant to aggression as its pretty obvious.

Oops, sorry. I should have read the est of the thread before commenting. Glad to see the Police are looking into it.

drewfromrisca

...

Aggieboy

drewfromrisca wrote:

Aggieboy, sorry your wrong. You can still REPORT a person for summons not arrest. I've just checked my Blackstones manuals for a second opinion and ran the scenario through my housemate whose also a police officer for 7 years for a 3rd opinion.
A police officer doesn't need to be present to witness sect 5 for a person to report it as an offence.

But we weren't talking about summons were we? Otherwise why did you mention a custody officers opinion?
I assume you now agree it is within the definition of an assualt and 'hands on/weapons' are not necessary?

tebbit

My Mrs was once on the wrong end of a road rage attack, she was driving a patient transport ambulance at the time, with Greater Manchester Ambulance Service on it, and wearing an ambulance drivers uniform.

Strangley enough she was cut up by a driver and verbally abused.

When I've been on my big and scary motorbike, no car driver has ever given me gyp?

pedylan

Reporting an incident of such seriousness to the police is recommended.

1. The guy's out of control behind the wheel. Who's next and with what consequences? A police intervention at this stage might save someone's life.

2. The police will/can act. I got shouted at and had something thrown at me, hitting me in the back last year - unprovoked, I wasn't even impeding their progress. Got the reg as the idiots zoomed past. Repoted it to local police. They rang me back to get full details then a couple of hours later rang to say car was local, driver intrviewed at home, given verbal warning and told next incident and he would receive an ASBO.

I was happy with that a least the little inadequate hadn't avoided all consequencs of his thoughtless action.

dilemna

Well I'll be amazed if the police do anything. Maybe there are wide variations between police forces on how they deal with incidents such as these. Perhaps Sussex, it is Sussex your local force? If they take the matter seriously all to the good. If it had occurred in Cambridgeshire they would do bugger all, absolutely bugger all. They wouldn't even take any details. Infact they might even laugh at you for the privilege and tell you it's your word against the other party. I know as I have reported several vehicles. I don't bother now. I just keep my head down. Don't shout at anyone or make any gestures except a thank you waive every now and again. If anyone gets too close I give them a long learing deranged don't fcuk with me look. If it looks like getting serious I get my camera out which is attached to the brake and gear cables infront of the bars and headset and if that fails my D-lock Abus Granite X-Plus 300mm which on the odd occasion it's been out has worked very well.

You say you were cycling with a friend where was he/she?

This afternoon I was cycling home 22-25 mph not too slowly (13 miles ride) near Peterborough and a car behind was giving me lots of room hanging back whilst we travelled through a couple of dangerous tight bends right then left 30 mph tops jobs. Some dense trees and undergrowth on the adjacent land so drivers cannot see around the bends. However most drivers normally take them as fast as they can 50-60mph, the road is well worn smooth. Loads of cars go off, ..... haha... (Simpsons style). Anyway as we came out of the second bend onto the straight slightly up hill the car that was courteously hanging back indicated to pull out to pass me, but the car behind that suddenly screamed it's engine, blew it's horns, headlights on full, forcing the car overtaking me back in behind me narrowly missing me. This maniac car a black Vectra I think was being driven by a middle aged woman who looked like she was wearing one of those uniforms cashiers wear at Nationwide. There was another car a Honda saloon I think following her extremely closely also driven by another woman in a suit. Absolute fcuking headcases. I mean..........Some people. I saw it happen as I spend as much time glancing behind as looking forward. I eyeball all drivers in vehicles approaching from behind several times. Eyes and ears. Maybe they turned bad because it is Friday13th. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

As the car that had given me lots of space by hanging back eventually came past they again gave me lots of room so I gave them a friendly thank you waive.

It's reassuring to know that there are a small minority of drivers on the road who aren't nutters.

Colin2954

I don't usually comment on threads, however as a keen cyclist and plod from Southampton if you don't get a satisfactory result Ben let me know and as long as you and your mate are prepared to make statements and have the reg number of the vehicle (if its actually registered to the driver is a different matter) then I'll try to ensure that its dealt with for you. I've read the comments and whilst yes according to the law it is an assualt under common law due to the immediate fear of violence that you WOULD have felt..hint hint...an offence under Sec 5 public order offence is the offence that he would probably be dealt with for, which if eligable is an £80 PND (penalty notice for disorder). as a side note there is no longer the necessity to warn for an offence under Sec 5, as the offence is complete regardless of the warning.

Not intending to get into an argument about the law.....just a plod trying to help a fellow cyclist!!!!

wolleur

Just reading these posts is enough to raise one's ire.... it seems putting a human into a 100hp+ tin can on wheels is a quick way to transform someone into an inconsiderate moron.

It's difficult to remain cool in these situations, but taking the offenders reg number and reporting it to the constabulary without getting into an altercation is the only way to remain safe, the shame is that the tin can will always win when it comes to a confrontation. All we cyclists have is our wits, and the law.

The last two things that have happened to me I rode away without taking the drivers reg number, even though one did constitute a road accident (was on the bonnet of a rover 200 for a bit too much of my journey ). I was so full of adrenaline that it didn't occur that I might be hurt or that the police should be called. I was lucky, only a few bruises and a bent wheel. It really hurt the next day though.

My point, I guess, is that when the adrenaline kicks in the world gets very different, just best to avoid these situations (driver confrontations) if you have any choice in the matter.