touring on 16/20 spoke wheels

newbie79

I'm planning to do the coast and castles route in May on my specialized sirrus elite hybrid. I upgraded the wheels to Shimano RS20 last year after breaking a couple of spokes on the original wheels (crappy Alex AT-400 28/32 spokes)

I've had no issues with the wheels (done about 1000 miles on them, much superior to the originals and they remain true), but would they be able to take the extra weight on a tour? I weigh about 80kg and would be carrying an extra 12-15kg including rack, panniers etc. Tyres are 28mm.

andrew_s

It will probably be OK, but if a spoke does go, the wheel will go far enough out of true that you likely won't be able to ride.

synchronicity

I wouldn't tour on RS20s. I've had 100kg riders use them and after 1-2 weeks they go out of true. They also use unusual spokes... have a search of this forum for people who tried to find replacements. I believe they gave up.

Better to get a higher spoke count wheel in my opinion. The aksiums can take a lot of punishment, but you're probably better off with 28 / 32 spoke wheels with standard J bend spokes for touring.

dilemna

newbie79 wrote:

I'm planning to do the coast and castles route in May on my specialized sirrus elite hybrid. I upgraded the wheels to Shimano RS20 last year after breaking a couple of spokes on the original wheels (crappy Alex AT-400 28/32 spokes)

I've had no issues with the wheels (done about 1000 miles on them, much superior to the originals and they remain true), but would they be able to take the extra weight on a tour? I weigh about 80kg and would be carrying an extra 12-15kg including rack, panniers etc. Tyres are 28mm.

I would go for 32h front rims and 36h rears given the weights you have given. I don't quite weigh 80kg more like 75kg, but have been known to carry quite a weight in my Vaude panniers. I don't know how as I always carry only the absolute essentials....
One of my touring bikes is also a Specialised Sirrus but a Sport which I bought in 2002/2003. It had a cheap and cheerful Alesia V rim factory built wheel set on it. Spokes kept breaking in the rear wheel so Evans Holborn eventually rebuilt it with Sapim spokes and then it was fine - a really strong good and true wheel which remained so despite alot of abuse. I used an All condition Armadillo 28mm on it. Still use it occasionally when I know the weather is going to be foul or I'm going to carry a washing machine or like on the back. Now the bike is set up for touring normally it has Mavic Open Pro Cd 36H rim with Armadillo 25c tyre on rear with Campag Chorus hub and same rim on front but 32h and 23c tyre. I do have a 32h rear Mavic Open Pro Cd wheel that I had built first but wasn't overly impressed as it didn't feel that strong, but I think that was due more to the wheel builder than the 32 hole spoke count. It's still a good wheel but I use the 36hole built by Monty at Condor for seroius touring as it is feels pretty strong and stays true.

I would suggest you use a 36 hole rim for the rear obviously you will need a 36 hole rear hub as well and get the wheel hand built. It will be worth it as hand builts are always stronger then factory wheels. Also I wouldn't go below a 25c tyre on the rear. 28c for piece of mind. You could go 32c or even 35c but I think that's unnecessary TBH and IMHO far too heavy. Plus they might be too big for your frame anyway as clearance would be an issue. I think 28c might be the largest you can go with mudguards. I can't remember now and also Specialised might have made changes to the frame since I bought mine. Don't forget the mudguards as my Sirrus came without unless you don't mind getting covered. Get SKS the only alternative and best. You did get your Specialised Sirrus because it is basically a light manoevrable road bike so presumably you don't want to turn it into a heavy cumbersome tourer. If your budget is tight just focus on the rear as this will carry most of the weight.
Hope this has helped.
Alex

newbie79

Thanks for the advice. Yes the specialized was bought as a lightish commuter/weekend road bike not as a tourer. Has the 28c Armadillo tyres which are superb (never had a puncture) I've also put sks mudguards on! The other issue is it's only 18 speed, but the newcastle - edinburgh route is pretty flat so won't be a problem.

I take your point on the RS20s, but I'm reluctant to buy more wheels which may not get much use. I could just get a new 36 spoke rear built I guess, as that is where the extra weight is going. I don't really want to spend too much converting it as it will never make a great touring bike, not least because of the gearing. I also find aluminium a harsh ride.

I've an old scott hardtail mtb which I could convert for touring (only 24 spoke 26" Mavic Crossride wheels with Schwalbe Marathon tyres - but i'm confident they're stong enough). I've also got a Giant NRS FS - but that's not really suitable.

I've also got an old Peugeot Super Vitus 980 tubed bike, which I could build up (originally bought to convert to fixed).
Would you recomend hub gears for touring? Or will they just leave me stranded, with no hope of a quick fix? I was thinking of an alfine or nexus hub (though understand that the shifter doesn't suit drop bars).

Also how much does the labour cost to get a wheel built up? - is it feasable for someone with no experience of wheel building (but reasonably mechanically minded ie me!) to built a front and rear hub geared wheels? Or is that an accident waiting to happen!? I wouldn't attempt rear derailleur.

andymiller

newbie79 wrote:

I take your point on the RS20s, but I'm reluctant to buy more wheels which may not get much use. I could just get a new 36 spoke rear built I guess, as that is where the extra weight is going. I don't really want to spend too much converting it as it will never make a great touring bike, not least because of the gearing. I also find aluminium a harsh ride.

I've an old scott hardtail mtb which I could convert for touring (only 24 spoke 26" Mavic Crossride wheels with Schwalbe Marathon tyres - but i'm confident they're stong enough). I've also got a Giant NRS FS - but that's not really suitable.

I've also got an old Peugeot Super Vitus 980 tubed bike, which I could build up (originally bought to convert to fixed).
Would you recomend hub gears for touring? Or will they just leave me stranded, with no hope of a quick fix? I was thinking of an alfine or nexus hub (though understand that the shifter doesn't suit drop bars).

Also how much does the labour cost to get a wheel built up? - is it feasable for someone with no experience of wheel building (but reasonably mechanically minded ie me!) to built a front and rear hub geared wheels? Or is that an accident waiting to happen!? I wouldn't attempt rear derailleur.

The simplest solution would be to build, or get some wheels built, for the Specialized - and then transfer them to the next bike.

Yes it is feasible to build your own wheels, but you would need to invest in some tools including a jig (unless you make one yourself) so you probably wouldn't save much if anything. Spa Cycles build excellent wheels and they are pretty good value.

Hub gears have their fans. They have advantages - you can put on a heaver chain and expect it to last longer. Also the gears are protected from muck. But if they fail then they are much more difficult to repair than derailleurs. Don't believe anyone who tells you that hub gears never go wrong. The Alfine may prove to be a lot more reliable than the Nexus but they are very new to the market so the jury is still out - my advice would be to wait and see.

dilemna

Most wheel builld prices were about £30 including spokes at my local LBS about a year ago. Then they hit £40. Condor London were charging £40 including spokes double or single butted what ever you wanted but if unusual then slighlty more to reflect their increased cost. Wheel truing £10. Don't forget with wheels you can put them on any bike providing they are compatible. Well built hand built wheels are a joy to ride on.

I have just bought a Minoura Wheel truning jig (£70) as I have quite a few wheels now and fancy trying my hand. It is not easy and am fully prepared for total disaster having to take my butchered wheel to a pro to put right.

Yes the Armadillos are good if a bit heavy but they roll along nicely. They are bullit and last for ages. I only had one puncture, well not really a puncture. I was distracted and rode though a load of broken glass, she was worth staring at, and unfortunately one particularly sharp piece sliced clean into the tyre. Normally nothing penetrates the Armadillos. First flat in about 12 years and 75,000 miles. Fortunately had a spare tube and a piece of thick card to line the tyre from the inside to get me home.

dennisn

andrew_s wrote:

It will probably be OK, but if a spoke does go, the wheel will go far enough out of true that you likely won't be able to ride.

+1 Break ONE spoke and you're done. Bad idea.

Dennis Noward

mz__jo

i would go for a 36h rear and just take care with the front.
There is nothing wrong with 18speeds if they are the right ones. Some of us grew up touring with speds from one to five.
You can build your own wheels without a jig, I have for over 35 years. You use the frame and forks to hold the wheel for lining up. These days there is little financial advantage in building your own, its more for when you want something odd or if it gives you pleasure (it does me). If you don't know how to build wheels a jig won't help you; if you do its not absolutely necessary but it makes the job easier.
For touring I would prefer stainless spokes and 13/14g single butted but that's a debatable point.
Cheers Jo

newbie79

I relatively cheap solution would be to keep with the current front RS20 wheel and get the original specialized rear rebuilt using the existing 32h hub, but new spokes and rim. Is this a good idea? Could someone recommend a rim? I'll be sticking with 28c tyres.

andymiller

newbie79 wrote:

I relatively cheap solution would be to keep with the current front RS20 wheel and get the original specialized rear rebuilt using the existing 32h hub, but new spokes and rim. Is this a good idea? Could someone recommend a rim? I'll be sticking with 28c tyres.

If it's a reasonable quality hub (eg Shimano Deore) then it would be a good solution, but if it's not decent quality it could be a false economy. I'd compare prices for the two options. [EDIT: bear in mind as well that you can sell the existing wheel on eBay - which could cover a good part of the the cost of a new hub].

As far as rims are concerned, probbaly most wheelbuilders would be using Mavic Open Pros. Spa build with Rigida Chrinas which are as good but a bit narrower.