Amnesty for Asylum seekers

TheBoyBilly

In my view there's no point in it. How many Eastern Europeans are escapimg from tyranny? And what's our responsibility to Somalia? I suppose in Leftie-world this makes me a Nazi.

teagar

TheBoyBilly wrote:

I suppose in Leftie-world this makes me a Nazi.

Pretty much.

TheBoyBilly

So, Teagar, where am I going wrong?

teagar

*sighs*

Where to start?

What's your objection to people wanting to live in the UK?

TheBoyBilly

Why the "sighs"?

I've have no objection to people wanting to live in the UK, but I do question some of their motives. I have concerns that (I use Somalia as an example) that some people are coming here for purely economic reasons and are using the Asylum card for their own purposes. This country of ours is now being crippled by debt yet we still take an influx of folk who seem to have no relationship with the UK. I am willing to learn, I have an open mind, but, as yet, I can't see it. Where does it end? We have recently seen the deaths of two of our soldiers by people that hold similar beliefs and values to our own. What chance that far worse is to come from people that hold our culture in contempt.
Without the "easy" platitudes, explain to me where my concerns are unfounded.

teagar

The concern rests on the basis that you believe that by being "British" (whatever that identity actaully entails), you have more right to live in the UK that someone who is not "British".

As far as I am concerned, that is discriminatory. Simply because someone has another idenity, say, "Somalian" (though you must remember than national identities in post-colonial nations are in fact appropriated western identities and as such is a tricky issue), that shouldn't reduce their right to live in the UK.

As for people who hold "our" or really "your" culture (whatever that possesive identity actually means!) in contempt - I fear, by implication that you too hold their (whoever they is...) culture in similar contempt, or else you wouldn't be so hostile to that culture existing within the UK. It's that mutual hostility that causes problems.


When you say "this country of ours", who actually owns the country? If it is British citizens, which presumably includes ex-asylum seekers, then that is similarly descriminatory. If I am born in, say, Brazil, with Brazilian parents, do I not have a right to live in the UK? My place of birth and my parents are not my choice, so why be descriminated for it?

It's that kind of thing I have an objection to.

TheBoyBilly

A fair point , Teagar-well put. But the thing is, for me, that some of those seeking asylum don't have the UK's interests at heart and are looking to promote, indeed incite trouble. I hate to use a football managers' analogy but Arsene Wenger of Arsenal seems convinced that there will a terrorist attack a la Lahore. Multiculturism just isnt working - on both sides, but moreso for the indigenous population, who are understandably afraid. Yet "liberal" Governments have this thing about letting vast swathes of folk into an ever overcrowded island for the sake of a vote or two. The UK is in the grip of a recession but that doesn't seem to mean a thing to this deluded Government. Who pays the piper?

Eau Rouge

TheBoyBilly wrote:

I have concerns that (I use Somalia as an example) that some people are coming here for purely economic reasons and are using the Asylum card for their own purposes.

I have little doubt of it, especially since they would otherwise not be allowed to live here, claiming asylum becomes a last resort. That's not the asylum systems fault, thats the immigration laws fault. Your targeting to wrong problem there, and targeting genuine asylum seekers in that way (the ones mixed in with the economic migrants) is not a good thing.

TheBoyBilly wrote:

This country of ours

So many things wrong with that phrase....
What country? Britian isn't an ethnic country, it's not even a real country. Scotland and Wales are ethnic countries, but England certainly isn't, it's about the most mongrel country you can imagine. Then there are these fictional "ours" people. Even the Welsh and Scots are a mixed lot when you get down to it, but this huge mix of Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Celts, Carribeans, Sub-continental Asians etc etc that is the general UK population is a long way short of being an "us". Us, in Britain, and especially in England, is about the people actually living here, rather than any notion of ancestry. For over 1000 years, if not longer, this has been the greatest thing about these Islands. Don't throw it away.

TheBoyBilly wrote:

is now being crippled by debt yet we still take an influx of folk who seem to have no relationship with the UK.

They're here, which is about as much a relationship as anyone else has with the place.
It's well documented that economic immigrants in the UK as a whole are, and have long been, a net economic benefit to the country. If they were not here, the place would be worse off. They generate money for the country as well as consume it, just like everyone else does.
And again, for 1000 of years folks who have no relationship with the UK have been coming here and making the place one of the best countries in the world. But let me guess, who don't actually think the UK is one of the best countries in the world to live in either, do you?

TheBoyBilly wrote:

We have recently seen the deaths of two of our soldiers by people that hold similar beliefs and values to our own.

The murderers would no doubt disagree. This idea that there are some core values that most British people have that are somehow different to anyone else is rubbish, you can see that? This place is made up of millions of different values, just like everywhere is. Migrants into the place are no different to those already here in that regard. They will share some values with some people, not share other values with others, and no doubt bring new values and prespectives on values with them that may or may not make the place better....just like everyone else does.

"Us" and "Them" are too very dangerous words. There is no "Us" and there is no "them", there are just people. Some you will like, some you will tolerate, others you will dislike. Where they are from is irrelevant in who those people are.

TheBoyBilly wrote:

What chance that far worse is to come from people that hold our culture in contempt.

Maybe bits of our culture should be held in contempt. Our treatment of the elderly, and our treatment of teenager, spring to mind.

teagar

Sorry to respond with questions, but I think it will take the discussion further.

What are the UK's interests exactly? If they are in some how neo-imperial, aiming to dominate the world, or at least, make "progress" and become more "modern", then I think we have reached the crux of the problem.

When you say " The UK is in the grip of a recession but that doesn't seem to mean a thing to this deluded Government. Who pays the piper?", are you making an assumption about asylum seekers regarding their propensity to work? I'd suggest that if idea of the state supporting new people in the UK is problematic in the grip of recession, why not just stop people giving birth in the UK?

What exactly is the local UK population afraid of?

I think if you were a culturally dominated minority in the UK you certainly would not consider yourself better off than the locals.

teagar

Eau Rouge.

If you don't like the terms "us" and "them" don't use them in your response.

As for racially defining a nation, I would STRONGLY suggest refraining from that, for what I hope are obvious reasons.

STEFANOS4784

All i will say is this.........















Bloody foreigners

Stewie Griffin

Im not too sure that many Eastern Europeans claim Asylum here anymore*. Most are allowed to come here and work, NONE are entitled to Benefits unless they have been here and supported themselves for 2 Years.

*I dont keep up with the figures anymore as I no longer House Asylum Seekers as the legislation changed.

Finally, Eastern European burds are on the whole quite lovely and more are welcome, by me anyway.