Integrated Headset Woes....

Bmjboy

Guys, can someone shed some light on this issue for me..

Installed brand new FSA Orbit integrated headset on my (new build) Giant Trance - and just took it for its first test flight up the road.

This is the headset:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/FSA_Orbit_CC_Integrated_Aheadset/5360013188/

Steering was/is god awful - stiff.

Ive been tightening the headset compression screw adequalty (not too much) and any less results in the top cap and top spacer spinning indepently (not good) There is approx 4-5mm space between to of steerer and top of spacer - which is deemed correct amount.

Looking over an old Cane Creek instruction guide (The FSA Orbit is a CC compatible), there should be a shim washer which goes ontop of the split ring which sits inside the cartridge bearing.

Firstly, the FSA set didnt come with one, and therefore secondly, I never fitted one - Looks like Im getting no compression on the bearings, im simply "doing it up"

The height of the headtube shroud/cover is quite deep - am I supposed to put say a 5mm spacer ring UNDERNEATH this cover to provide compression down onto the split ring?

As it stands, NOTHING is pushing down on the internal split ring in the top bearing, am I right in thinking something should be?

Im a bit noob to this, but been following all the guides and instructions I can, but this is confusing me.

Please help.

nicklouse

have you swapped the crown race on the fork to the new one?

and IIRC no FSA headsets need any spacers between the locating ring and the cover.

is this a new build or a replacement?

there are also 3 versions of the Integrated headset (angles are different) do you have the correct one?

Bmjboy

Hi Nick - This is a "new" build but using SH fork and frame.

I have solved the issue by inserting an old Aheadset top tube cover which has a protruding base which presses on the split ring.

The FSA top tube over does not have such a protrusion, so therefore nothing would press against the split ring..

Either the FSA headset I have purchased was incomplete (missing something that presses on the ring) or its the wrong one, but I cant see how its wrong as all the bearing pieces match an "old" a tatty one which come with the frame.

It fixed now, but Ive had to cobble together 2 headset's to make it work.

Theres no play in it, and the steering is nice and loose.

stu8975

I'm pretty sure you need one of the zero stack models (ZS) for 50mm OD headtube. The frames normally come with the ZS3 if im correct.

Bmjboy

stu8975 wrote:

I'm pretty sure you need one of the zero stack models (ZS) for 50mm OD headtube. The frames normally come with the ZS3 if im correct.

I think you maybe right - just done a test ride today, and steering is still not 100% in my eyes.

How can I get this confirmed that I need a ZS3?

Theres not much info on the Cane Creek website or FSA that helps me (Im noob to this anyway!)

That FSA is a little pricy for me at the mo, are there any cheaper alternatives I could try?

stu8975

As long as its a zero stack job then it shouldnt be a prob, think FSA do a £25 one, the trance has the same headtube as the anthem (OD 50mm) as far as i know (ive got an anthem), and that uses a zero stack headset (got the ZS3). If in doubt contact you local giant dealer or drop giant a line or two, normally very helpful dudes, just quote model/year of frame.

nicklouse

have a read of the standard on Parktools.

But are there cups pressed into the frame?

Bmjboy

The cartirdge bearings simply drop into the headtube - really simple.

Obviously Im missing something, I may just drop Giant an email for clarification.

nicklouse

pictures?

Bmjboy

Here we go...

FSA Orbit Headset Cartridge Bearing and split ring device


FSA Headset Tube cover - Clearly wrong size(?)


Underneath of the above cover - Note, nothhing to press down on split ring.


Old Cane Creek Top Cover piece


Underneath of above - Note a protrusion to press againt split ring.


As mentioned, cobbled with the old Cane Creek to cover it works, but not greatly, there is still some slight stiffness, no play, but its not right.

What do I need to get this right..............?!?!?

nicklouse

just pull the bearing out and another pic please.

thanks.

nicklouse

Also do you have a pic of the old CC bearing?

Bmjboy

Cant do pics now, but old and new cartridge bearings are absolulty identical : TH Industries ACB 36 x 45 873

nicklouse

get it to a bike shop as something is not right.

it is like it is for the taller bearings 8.5mm rather than the 6.5mm as fitted.

the old one were 873 and not 873E or something else?

I am still surprised that it is an integrated headset and not a Zero stack.

Like i said pics of inside the head tube would be good.

nicklouse

ok I am almost 100% sure you have the wrong headset.


I see a bearing cup in this picture.
bottom cup.

nicklouse

right a better pic.

yes the frame does use a Zero stack/Internal headset,
you need to change the headset you have. I hope you have not mashed things up.

clicky for bigger and you can see the sliver tops of the cups-

Bmjboy

Thanks for your help so far Nick... pics as requested....

Feedback, suggestions welcome!!

SuperstarComponents.com

Arent you trying to fit an internal headset to a bike with an integrated headset....?

They are very different, and internal the bearings press directly into the frame, and integrated the bearings fit in a low cup which is pressed into the headtube.

They are not interchangeable.

Neil

supersonic

Wrong way round!

Integrated fit into the frame, internal (or zerostack) have the shallow cup.

But as you say, not interchangeable, however, his headset looks to me to be internal due to the cups.

Bmjboy

SuperstarComponents.com wrote:

Arent you trying to fit an internal headset to a bike with an integrated headset....?

They are very different, and internal the bearings press directly into the frame, and integrated the bearings fit in a low cup which is pressed into the headtube.

They are not interchangeable.

Neil

Hence why Im on here for advice, as my OP state Im noob and need advice on what I need to get this right - so far, everything on the old t'internet has confused the hell out of me - doesnt seem to be anything "standard" as many people/sites would suggest.

Ive now discovered that I need a ZERO STACK headset to fit a 50mm OD head tube.

Clearly the bearing cups are already in place - seem in good condition so I doubt I need to swap them out.

If Im wrong, please let me know!!

But from my findings, I did originally buy the wrong headset! :?

nicklouse

good to see you are now sorted.

the funny thing is that the bearings can be the same but the top caps and spacers make the difference.

in all probability you should be OK with the combo you ended up with, what i was concerned about was that there were no cups in there and the bearings would have been only just held there.

your first pics looked just like a nice faced headtube and there did not seem to be any cups.

the blue seal shows me that the bearings have the right angles 45 out and 36 inner the CC standard.

Bmjboy

nicklouse wrote:

good to see you are now sorted.

the funny thing is that the bearings can be the same but the top caps and spacers make the difference.

in all probability you should be OK with the combo you ended up with, what i was concerned about was that there were no cups in there and the bearings would have been only just held there.

your first pics looked just like a nice faced headtube and there did not seem to be any cups.

the blue seal shows me that the bearings have the right angles 45 out and 36 inner the CC standard.

I hope Im sorted(!) - Should get the Zero Stack tomorrow and fit - this "cobbled together" setup I currently have just pinches on more dramatic turns, which "will" catch me out - its not right anyway so needs addressing.