Titanium bike with mudguard provision

sweep

Hi all,

I am hitting the big 40 in May and will hopefully have up to £2.5k to spend on a new roadbike.

The majority of my cycling is non-competitive riding in the Cotswolds with approx one audax/sportive ride per month of up to 300km.

I currently have a Klein Q-Pro road bike and a Thorn Brevet with a 520 steel frame. Both these have triples.

I am looking for something faster than the Thorn but which is able to take mudguards as these are required for many audax rides. I plan to keep the bike for the foreseeable future and so a Ti bike seems like a good choice. In componentry terms Ultegra would be the level I would be looking at.

I am attracted by the Planet X Sportive Ti mainly because of the Made in the US frame. I am a little dubious about having a double given the 25% gradients around here but I guess it is a compact.

Other options would include the Enigma Etape, Condor Gran Fondo and Van Nicholas Yukon. These all seem to have Chinese/Taiwan frames. I am sure that they are ok but they seem to lack the cachet of the Lynskey frame of the Planet X.

In terms of showroom appeal I like the look of the Condor although they did not respond to my email about lead times which puts me off a little.

I am also wondering whether it would be worth going with a manufacturer who offers a custom build. I am not sure how much I would benefit from this as I am of fairly standard dimensions (5'11").

Whatever I choose in the end I would ideally like to have it by May 30th.

Any thoughts most welcome.

toontra

I've had a Yukon for over a year and am delighted with it. Fitted with Ultegra triple so I never have to worry about gearing. Have used it for sportives, audaxes, about 4k of training and a 6-day LEJoG. The more I ride it the more I like it. It can also take a rack for light touring.

When I bought it was a good £400 cheaper than anything comparable (I got lots of quotes on all the frames you mentioned, plus a couple of other), but I think the VN prices have risen since then so I'm not sure how it compares at the moment.

alfablue

I am sure the Planet-X is a fine bike (and indeed I have an SL Carbon myself), but I wouldn't be overly persuaded by the USA build over Van Nicholas Yukon or Amazon designs, which I am sure will be built to a very high quality. Also, you might consider Sabath bikes.

Slow Downcp

I built an Enigma Etape in Oct/Nov last year - also looked at Sabbath, VN etc - superb frame, excellent service, don't regret my decision for one minute.

See thread here:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... ght=enigma

giant_man

I have checked all these out so I know where you're coming from. FWIW I thought the Condor Gran Fondo was overpriced for what it was.

Out of the ones you have listed my choice would be the Enigma or the Planet X because as you rightly say, it is actually built by Lynskey.

For custom you could look at crisptitanium.com or burls.co.uk

Pork Sword

I've got a Planet-X tI Sportive and although the frame does take mudguards the headtube angle is 72.5 so there is a fair amount of foot/front wheel overlap so I wouldn't recommend it... it was built in the States and they havn't got a clue what 'fenders' are for, so...

If I were you, I'd go for a custom Burls ti Audax frame - I've dealt with Justin Burls and he knows his stuff... You should be able to get a full custom frame for about £980.

Failing that, go for an Enigma Etape, or Sabbath September as these are designed for UK conditions and have the required 71.5 degree head tube angle.

Pork Sword

P.S. I find the Lynskey built Planet-X Ti Sportive to be heavy - great welds etc but all this 'built in the States' nonsense is just that! IMHO... Nothing wrong with frames built by Russians, Taiwanese, Chinese etc

Monty Dog

FWIW Enigmas are built in Russia along with Burls and Sabbaths are of Eastern origin too - I have a Xacd / Xi'an Chinese titanium frame and the quality of construction is excellent for what it cost - it's about $500-600 for custom titanium from them and they can do virtually anything you like - frame angles, mudguards, rack mounts, disc brake tabs - your only limit is you imagination and your wallet!.

toontra

So much of this is snobbery IMO. The build quality of my Yukon is superb. I think people are willing to pay a premium for certain names - the Condor effect!

Pork Sword

Snobbery does play a big part in a lot of peoples buying choices... But if you can afford to support British companies then I'm all for that! I've done business with XI'AN/XACD and can't recommend them even - though Porter (the guy you deal with in China) can communicate effectively - as if there are any problems its practically impossible to have them rectified. :oops:

They are well-constructed, and despatched really fast but I see them as a tool rather than an object to be desired....

A wise man would use a company that is able to accomodate any possible return issue etc - which is why I recommend Burls, Enigma et al because even though there is a price premium - the end service and end-product would be superior. IMO

GeorgeShaw

I'd recommend Sabbath. I've got a Silk Road, but they also do the September which takes mudguards. Greg and Gareth are top guys and give a very personal service.

wjws

I second the above comment re customer service at Sabbath (ex Sunday). Greg is very helpful and will go out of his way to ensure that you get what you want. I have a Monday's Child which I use for CAT 4 racing and sportives. Pleased as punch with it.

Slow Downcp

Monty Dog wrote:

FWIW Enigmas are built in Russia along with Burls and Sabbaths are of Eastern origin too - I have a Xacd / Xi'an Chinese titanium frame and the quality of construction is excellent for what it cost - it's about $500-600 for custom titanium from them and they can do virtually anything you like - frame angles, mudguards, rack mounts, disc brake tabs - your only limit is you imagination and your wallet!.

I thought Enigma are made in the Far East, not Russia (according to Jim Walker).

Slow Downcp

toontra wrote:

So much of this is snobbery IMO. The build quality of my Yukon is superb. I think people are willing to pay a premium for certain names - the Condor effect!

I bought my Enigma on what I thought were it's merits.

I have since had no reason to regret my choice - the bike rides even better and smooter than I expected Ti to be. The service and advice received from Jim and Mark at Enigma was second to none, from the point where Jim Walker PM'ed me after seeing a post I made on this forum, to Mark advising on size/stem length etc, to delivery. I did have to wait a week or so for the stem as they were waiting for the new stock to be delivered - Jim did offer to send a Pro stem in it's place but I decided to wait. In the meantime I realised that I'd forgot to order spacers and there were no bar plugs in the bar tape - I asked Jim how much it would be to drop some in as the stem was due to me the following day and he posted some FOC. Even after delivery I had an e-mail checking all was okay and that I was happy with my purchase.

To be fair Greg @ Sabbath also offered sound advice and went out his way to help, but the matt finish of the Sabbaths wasn't to my taste.

The VN may be an excellent bike, but I preferred the feel and finish of the Enigma.

Nothing to do with snobbery.

careful

From what you say about your needs, you cant go wrong with a Yukon. Excellent finish and a very comfortable ride but definately no slouch. I agree that they don't seem to appeal so much to the bike snobs but I think that is only because the price is low for a titanium frame. I have had various steel, aluminium and carbon frames over the years but I would say that the yukon is the best all rounder. I would not underestimate the benefit of unpainted titanium from a longevity point of view either. After 2 years of not very careful use and air travel etc it still looks just like new.

toontra

careful wrote:

From what you say about your needs, you cant go wrong with a Yukon. Excellent finish and a very comfortable ride but definately no slouch. I agree that they don't seem to appeal so much to the bike snobs but I think that is only because the price is low for a titanium frame. I have had various steel, aluminium and carbon frames over the years but I would say that the yukon is the best all rounder. I would not underestimate the benefit of unpainted titanium from a longevity point of view either. After 2 years of not very careful use and air travel etc it still looks just like new.

Couldn't agree more. Raw titanium means no more paranoia about scrapes, scratches and chips. Lean it wherever you like. No need to nervously examine for stone chips every time you clean.

To be fair the VN decals do come off quite easily - that doesn't bother me as I've actually removed most of mine with thinners already, so being quite anonymous there's less chance of falling foul of the ti snobs!

karlmoreton

+1 for the Van Nicolas Yukon, had mine over three years and was an absolute bargain. Didn't have the choice that is available today, do like the planet X and enigma. The Yukon does have larger clearance for mudguards/large profile tyres and rack mounts.
Have completed the Raid Pyrenean in four days on mine, testament in itself to the comfort of titanium frames.

karlmoreton

+1 for the Van Nicolas Yukon, had mine over three years and was an absolute bargain. Didn't have the choice that is available today, do like the planet X and enigma. The Yukon does have larger clearance for mudguards/large profile tyres and rack mounts.
Have completed the Raid Pyrenean in four days on mine, testament in itself to the comfort of titanium frames.

karlmoreton

+1 for the Van Nicolas Yukon, had mine over three years and was an absolute bargain. Didn't have the choice that is available today, do like the planet X and enigma. The Yukon does have larger clearance for mudguards/large profile tyres and rack mounts.
Have completed the Raid Pyrenean in four days on mine, testament in itself to the comfort of titanium frames.

lfcquin

wjws wrote:

I second the above comment re customer service at Sabbath (ex Sunday). Greg is very helpful and will go out of his way to ensure that you get what you want. I have a Monday's Child which I use for CAT 4 racing and sportives. Pleased as punch with it.

Agree with the Sabbath comments. I also have a Monday's Child and I am extremelly happy with it. Can't fault the service from these guys. The September is worth a look.

sweep

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Very interesting about the Planet X geometry - I guess this rules it out of contention. I was a little disappointed in their custom bike build option - an Ultegra groupset came to £833!

I will have a long, hard think about the Yukon and the Etape.

Thanks all

Chocolatebike

I'm also delighted with my Enigma (Excel with discs). It was custom made for me and, although it took ages to arrive, it was worth it.
If you can run to a custom made frame, it will be made in the UK I believe. Certainly with the custom route they'll be able to fit it with a triple, if that's what you want.

giant_man

sweep wrote:

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Very interesting about the Planet X geometry - I guess this rules it out of contention. I was a little disappointed in their custom bike build option - an Ultegra groupset came to £833!

I will have a long, hard think about the Yukon and the Etape.

Thanks all

Best thing imo is to give Jim or Mark at Enigma a ring and talk it through with them, very helpful in all respects.

daveplanetx

I think the best bet wherever possible is to go try the bike , Im not aware of any severe toe overlap issues on the sportive certainly on the frames we have in stock , though to be fair most people wouldnt put guards on. Especially using the lovely true temper fork , I ll check next week , if you want to know drop me a mail
dave@planet-x-bikes.com.

As for a US frame vs a Chinese frame , we have some experience in dealing with both and weve had virtually zero issues with Lynskey , any problems with chinese production normally comes down to tubing quality , I know of one UK brand who had a production made by Taiwanese company Ora and had over a 50% breakage rate , and turned out it was simply down to the factory received a very large order from another company , that meant they ended u buying a larger batch of tubing from another tubing supplier and the quality wasnt there .

Lyskey really are the worlds most experienced titanium frame manufacturers (welders) and have a very long pedigree , the ti road and sportive have been very well received , the ti road in particular blew away other ti bikes mentioned in a 220 bike test last year .

Anyway - anyone thinking about buying anything titanium , Id suggest keeping an eye on , or registering for Planet X April fools day promo . Theres a bit of a BOGOF April fools day promotion involving titanium frames / bikes and carbon superlight team road frames, its going to be a very short offer ! .