The system stinks.

AndyManc

I consider myself to be a bit of an activist, I look after my commute route and generally push for better facilities and a change in attitude from the authorities.

Well here's an example of what the reality is for most of us.

A recent contra-flow cycle lane has been built in Stockport and is part of my commute , so when local vans and private cars decided to wilfully park in it causing a serious hazard to all cyclists I decide to take action.

I contacted Stockport council, initially they tried to fob me off saying it was the responsibility of the police , so I e-mailed them back threatening to inform local councillors, MP's and the media.

The next day they sent a warden who booked one vehicle and forced builders to move a skip......, the next day the same vehicles were blocking the lane.

This time I phoned the police, they sent a patrol vehicle round and they forced the owners to move their vehicles ...... the next day the same vehicles were blocking the lane.

I phoned the police again .... no response, instead a few days later a 'community police officer' phoned me , OH F***.

As soon as you are contacted by a 'community police officer' you know full well the police are going to do f*** all.

This CPO commented that "we have all got to live together" and he even said shop owners had a right to park in the cycle lane, he's a total useless tosser.

So, on Friday I emailed local councillors and I noticed yesterday the lane was clear for the first time ever ..... I'll keep you posted.









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OldSkoolKona

Keep up the good work - its through people like yourself, your perseverance and persistance that gets things changed. So often, the authorities rely on apathy and that is why things remain as they are or get worse.

Yes, it feels like banging your head against a brick wall a lot of the time, but if everyone who posts on here highlighting their annoyance about an issue on their commute (and I think forums provide a good outlet for discussion on these issues) then took the next step and followed up on it outside the forum, slowly things change. Not everything and not all at once, but every little 'elps.

downfader

They'd have been better to out a contraflow on the wrong side of the road and let the cars and so on deal with all that broken crap on the deck. :?

Looks like to me that they havent considered the local businesses there either. What distance does this lane go on for? What does the local cycling campaign and the CTC think of this?

seataltea

From first hand experience you just need to hit the right buttons, the right people and mention the right things to get what you need when dealing with councils and the Police.

Forget phone calls they will not sort the problem long term, write a letter to the local Neighbourhood Police Inspector marked private and confidential. You'll get their name from the local Police website. In the letter highlight the problem, identify it is a road safety problem and find an example of when you and the others with whom you commute were nearly killed by having to move out into the road due to the obstruction.

Keep names of all persons you speak to, send a copy of the letter to the local councilor, local MP and the paper. Tell the Inspector you have done this and believe me you will get a massively better service.

NPT Inspectors are often in that role for promotion and the last thing they want is calls from MPs, councilors and local papers.

downfader

seataltea wrote:

From first hand experience you just need to hit the right buttons, the right people and mention the right things to get what you need when dealing with councils and the Police.

Forget phone calls they will not sort the problem long term, write a letter to the local Neighbourhood Police Inspector marked private and confidential. You'll get their name from the local Police website. In the letter highlight the problem, identify it is a road safety problem and find an example of when you and the others with whom you commute were nearly killed by having to move out into the road due to the obstruction.

Keep names of all persons you speak to, send a copy of the letter to the local councilor, local MP and the paper. Tell the Inspector you have done this and believe me you will get a massively better service.

NPT Inspectors are often in that role for promotion and the last thing they want is calls from MPs, councilors and local papers.

You'd need to be careful how you'd phrase that, as obviously we shouldnt be swerving into oncoming traffic (we would expect the same from drivers).

I would say a good tact would be to state how dangerous it is to avoid obstacles such as skips and debris at night when they can be harder to see.

AndyManc

I think the council has put the cycle lane there to try and prevent vehicles turning right at the junction, nothing to do with cycle safety or provision.

The lane is less than 100yds long and there is a blind bend (where the skip was situated) where vans also park causing cyclists into oncoming traffic.

I've had 2 near misses when oncoming vehicles have had to veer into a school boundary fence in order to avoid me, of course I get all the abuse for not being in the cycle lane.

In addition to this , the 2 street lights that cover the lane are not working ( I have reported it ), the lane is a death trap .

Also pedestrians walk in the cycle lane on the blind bend because there is no pavement for them to use.

I agree, the lane should have been on the opposite side of the road and raised with a kerb, but that would have encouraged vehicles to turn right at the junction, which is signed as 'no right turn'.

I've told Stockport council that I want the parking restrictions enforced or the lane to be immediately closed on safety grounds.




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downfader

AndyManc wrote:

I think the council has put the cycle lane there to try and prevent vehicles turning right at the junction, nothing to do with cycle safety or provision.

The lane is less than 100yds long and there is a blind bend (where the skip was situated) where vans also park causing cyclists into oncoming traffic.

I've had 2 near misses when oncoming vehicles have had to veer into a school boundary fence in order to avoid me, of course I get all the abuse for not being in the cycle lane.

In addition to this , the 2 street lights that cover the lane are not working ( I have reported it ), the lane is a death trap .

Also pedestrians walk in the cycle lane on the blind bend because there is no pavement for them to use.

I agree, the lane should have been on the opposite side of the road and raised with a kerb, but that would have encouraged vehicles to turn right at the junction, which is signed as 'no right turn'.

I've told Stockport council that I want the parking restrictions enforced or the lane to be immediately closed on safety grounds.




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I think you're doing the right thing tbh. It sounds to me as if this lane is a fob-off to keep cyclists away from traffic elsewhere. :? Have you got a multimap link to said lane?

If you get nowhere you might try contacting the press and perhaps film a video for them showing the difficulty in navigating the area?

BoardinBob

Regardless of the cycle lane, they shouldn't be parking on the double yellow lines. This is an issue for the council, as their traffic wardens should be ticketing the offending cars!

AndyManc

BoardinBob wrote:

Regardless of the cycle lane, they shouldn't be parking on the double yellow lines. This is an issue for the council, as their traffic wardens should be ticketing the offending cars!

Council's issue tickets but the police deal with vehicles causing an obstruction and or danger to other road users.

They both have a responsibility here and as usual both are denying that responsibility.



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Throlkim

There's an awful road on my commuting route with one of your problems. It's a long stretch of about 1 mile, with a dedicated red painted cycling lane.

Great!

Except that there are cars, and vans, and lorries parked in it every 10 yards, all the time. It's a double yellow line too. Never seen any traffic wardens or police down that way sorting it out. I think it's time I take some photos and take them in to the local plod. :?

Saw a line of stereotypical cars too.
Taxi -> White van -> MPV

AndyManc

downfader wrote:

Have you got a multimap link to said lane?

Will google do ? Moseley Street btw

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=moseley+road+edgeley&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.484393,34.716797&ie=UTF8&ll=53.402695,-2.163293&spn=0.001781,0.004238&t=h&z=18




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AndyManc

Throlkim wrote:

There's an awful road on my commuting route with one of your problems. It's a long stretch of about 1 mile, with a dedicated red painted cycling lane.

Great!

Except that there are cars, and vans, and lorries parked in it every 10 yards, all the time. It's a double yellow line too. Never seen any traffic wardens or police down that way sorting it out. I think it's time I take some photos and take them in to the local plod. :?

Saw a line of stereotypical cars too.
Taxi -> White van -> MPV

Same all over the UK , they spend millions on cycle lanes and fail to enforce regulations making them useless at best and a death trap at worst.


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downfader

AndyManc wrote:

downfader wrote:

Have you got a multimap link to said lane?

Will google do ? Moseley Street btw

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=moseley+road+edgeley&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.484393,34.716797&ie=UTF8&ll=53.402695,-2.163293&spn=0.001781,0.004238&t=h&z=18

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Cheers for that. Looks to me that a better strategy would have been for the council to close the road off for all traffic except access to the local businesses and make them use the B road/roundabout. :? Obviously I dont know if this is practical but it might be worth while encouraging this idea should you encounter further problems.

Any local cycling campaign might be able to back you up on this:
http://www.gmcc.org.uk/ Not sure how local they are as Manchester is massive compared to southampton, lol!

Konan

AndyManc wrote:

This CPO commented that "we have all got to live together" and he even said shop owners had a right to park in the cycle lane, he's a total useless tosser.

Sounds it! Parked on the pavement and over a double yellow line. That's BEFORE you consider the cycle lane.

Not only that but there is no right to park anywhere on the public highway anywhere.

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

I don't know. I can't help wondering whether cycle lanes in places like this are effectively unworkable. Just look at all the cr*p that's accumulated in it. And I'm not sure that more forceful regulation is the answer. If the lanes are poorly designed or ill-placed in the first place then no amount of regulation is going to sort out their problems.

If it was me I'd just avoid it altogether and ride in the road. In fact, that's my general approach to cycle lanes full stop. 9 times out of ten the damn things are menace in my experience.

downfader

Cyclelanes in general are completely impractical in a good handful of cases and unless you're getting complete segregation from all other traffic, and that traffic cannot or doesnt need to access the lane, then there is little point.

As said before on this forum there arent any Police to deal with these problems most of the damn time.

AndyManc

Sea_Green_Incorruptible wrote:

I don't know. I can't help wondering whether cycle lanes in places like this are effectively unworkable. Just look at all the cr*p that's accumulated in it. And I'm not sure that more forceful regulation is the answer. If the lanes are poorly designed or ill-placed in the first place then no amount of regulation is going to sort out their problems.

If it was me I'd just avoid it altogether and ride in the road. In fact, that's my general approach to cycle lanes full stop. 9 times out of ten the damn things are menace in my experience.

It should never have been built on that lane, as I said earlier, I think its been constructed to solve other issues not related to the provision of cycling.

It's negligence of behalf of the council, I'm thinking about the bigger picture here not just my own safety.

If a cyclist , young kid or adult gets killed on that lane (the chances are someone will be run down) then I wouldn't be happy that I could have done something about it and didn't.

Plus, if they get away with this act of wilful neglect, they will do it elsewhere.

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

And TBH the police's time is probably better spent elsewhere in any case.

I think the answer for cyclists is not actually cycle lanes or special facilities. As noted, these can be problematic (and I wouldn't use kerbed off ones either) and don't really fit in UK streets. They also stem from a 'segregate them' attitude that is the understandable but ultimately misplaced solution of people who rarely cycle in traffic.

Instead, we need to focus on roadcraft - i.e. how to move confidently and safely in traffic, as legitimate fellow road users with cars. These are skills that can be learnt and I wish more of the government's cycle money went into this kind of training rather than well-intentioned but impractical infrastructure.

Secondly, car driver's need training too. There should be a part of the driving test that specifically addresses negotiating cyclists. Incidently, and while there remains an awful lot of atrocious behaviour out there, I think attitudes are actually changing slowly, simply because urban cyclists are a much more familiar site now than even three years ago.

I've been commuting by bike since 2000 and I can feel the change. Certainly in Bristol it is now increasingly difficult to ignore us on any urban journey. There are bikes EVERYWHERE. Over time, drivers get used to this and subconsciously get more used to seeing us and dealing with us. The more of us get on two wheels, the more this will happen.

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

EDIT: double post

AndyManc

Just to add, I've received this piece of info on another forum;

I think, but cannot be sure, that there are guidelines saying that a contraflow cycle lane lane should not be installed if it cannot be protected from parking or loading. The obvious reason for that is that if a cyclist is forced to ride out of the lane they are both being placed in danger and breaking the law by riding the wrong way down a one-way street. (They won't allow cyclists into a contraflow bus lane unless it is wide enough to allow buses to overtake cyclists without leaving the lane.) It could be argued that leaving a vehicle in a position which forces a cyclist into danger is an offence of leaving a vehicle in a dangerous position. I've no experience of a prosecution for that offence and I cannot think of any decided cases. One to mention to the police if you intend raising it with them again - but I'd not hold my breath.


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andy jackson

if i remember the area correctly, isnt there also a cycle lane accross the rail line, then behind the armoury onto greek street?

it seems that they want cyclists to avoid the roundabout.

its the same with all things stockport, they try so hard but fail miserably!

andy

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downfader

AndyManc wrote:

Just to add, I've received this piece of info on another forum;

I think, but cannot be sure, that there are guidelines saying that a contraflow cycle lane lane should not be installed if it cannot be protected from parking or loading. The obvious reason for that is that if a cyclist is forced to ride out of the lane they are both being placed in danger and breaking the law by riding the wrong way down a one-way street. (They won't allow cyclists into a contraflow bus lane unless it is wide enough to allow buses to overtake cyclists without leaving the lane.) It could be argued that leaving a vehicle in a position which forces a cyclist into danger is an offence of leaving a vehicle in a dangerous position. I've no experience of a prosecution for that offence and I cannot think of any decided cases. One to mention to the police if you intend raising it with them again - but I'd not hold my breath.


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Would be reasonably easy to check. The guidelines were up on the DFT's website. :? If it is indeed illegal you need to tell the local press about this.

How was the lane this morning?

AndyManc

andy jackson wrote:

if i remember the area correctly, isnt there also a cycle lane accross the rail line, then behind the armoury onto greek street?

it seems that they want cyclists to avoid the roundabout.

its the same with all things stockport, they try so hard but fail miserably!

andy

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The roundabout is a nightmare, but there is no need to replace it with a guarenteed death trap. :shock:

AndyManc

downfader wrote:

Would be reasonably easy to check. The guidelines were up on the DFT's website. :? If it is indeed illegal you need to tell the local press about this.

How was the lane this morning?

I'm on lates, just got in now.

The lane was totally blocked with about 5 private vehicles.

The more I think about it, the more it seems they may have installed the lane in an attempt to stop vehicles parking behind the shops rear access.

They will have to remove it A.S.A.P


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downfader

AndyManc wrote:

downfader wrote:

Would be reasonably easy to check. The guidelines were up on the DFT's website. :? If it is indeed illegal you need to tell the local press about this.

How was the lane this morning?

I'm on lates, just got in now.

The lane was totally blocked with about 5 private vehicles.

The more I think about it, the more it seems they may have installed the lane in an attempt to stop vehicles parking behind the shops rear access.

They will have to remove it A.S.A.P


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I should imagine the shops are pee'd off at losing some area for parking.