Wheels...

StrangelyBrown

Chaps

General road racing and crits - what wheels do people on here use? And how much difference has a smoking pair of hoops really made?

dennisn

StrangelyBrown wrote:

Chaps

General road racing and crits - what wheels do people on here use? And how much difference has a smoking pair of hoops really made?

Knew a racer a few years back who had trashed his all carbon, everything, bike. He
was a really good racer and always placed well or won his fair share of things. His work had him traveling a lot and he had bought a Ritchey steel Breakaway bike so that he would have something to train on in his travels. Now, after he trashed his carbon rocket
he came to the races with his Breakaway, 32 spoke wheels, steely bike while waiting
and deciding what new bike to get. Guess what? He never missed a beat. Mostly it's the legs, lungs, and a few other things that really make the differences. I'll grant you that a good pair of wheels helps a bit but not like a great pair of legs. I see it as pretty much everyone who races has a good pair of race wheels, so it's somewhat of a level playing field in that respect, but not all legs and lungs are created equal and that's the difference.

Dennis Noward

softlad

got to agree with Dennis - wheels will not guarantee you even one place higher in the the overall. It's nice to spin along on a light set of hoops, but they will do sod all for your race results...

Yellow Peril

I don't think wheels will make that much difference unless it is a particularly hilly course where weight saving might make a difference but I guess you could be talking of very large climbs for that. I know of a few good guys over here who favour Mavic Kysriums but that can be £600 notes down the drain if you come off and bend them.

My bike came with Shimano 600 wheels which I really liked. At Christmas I was out on a ride and slotted the front wheel into a drain on the approach to a set of lights..RIP that wheel. I've replaced that with a pair of Ultegra wheels which were on sale at Merlin cycles until recently for £185 a pair. It seemed a lot of wheel for not too much cash.

Last year I built a timetrial bike using a cheap winter frame and have a 25miler on Saturday. I bought a pair of Fulcrum racing 3's for about £300 last year but haven't tried them yet so I'll let you know how I get on with those.

I've also got a pair of Mavic Aksiums which were £90 a pair including tyres and tubes a year or so ago from Ribble cycles. I use these for training and every day rides and they are super stiff even for a 92kg rider. Good bangs per buck with those.

I've just re-read this and it looks like I'm Imelda Marcos with wheels

StrangelyBrown

Thanks Imelda

Guys, do I know wheels won't make the difference, but I'm interested to know what people use and what they think.

I'm similar to Imelda in that I'm pretty fit but not light @ 95kgs (bulging muscles do that) and need a strong wheel.

Yellow Peril

I bought the Fulcrum 3's because they were rated by C+ as being suitable for heavier riders.

What's your budget?

StrangelyBrown

Don't have a budget yet. It will be one of those fluid things that depends on how much I convince myself, my mood, if the wife finds out etc.

Bronzie

Best wheels (only raced in the dry) - Bontrager X-lites with Michelin ProRace 2 tyres
Spare wheels (raced in damp/wet & training) - an old pair of Kysrium SLs with Conti 4 Seasons

There's not much in the weight (both around 1500g/pair) but the Bonty's do roll nicely although that's probably because they are still newish.

markwalker

Im fortunate and have been given dura ace clinchers to try, theyre nice and shiny
ive had 404s, the reynolds wheels, kyserium, and r-sys (my favourite) and theyre all good but mostly they feel good because they look cool. When youre on one youre on one and when im not i suffer it doesnt matter about the wheels

If i had to buy some wheels id buy the kyseriums, there are lighter wheels but theyre pretty light, thyre tuff as anything and you can ride them all through winter and theyll still go strong. Ive got a set wich i used for 2 seasons racing and training that went down the road numerous times and straightened perfectly. thyre showing their age slightly now but i never change them, go off road in places, ride oevr kirbs even some cyclocross ive stopped being precious about them thy just work theyre about 5 years old and all ive done is true a couple of times after massive crashes.

On that kind of use theyre probably the best value bit of kit ive bought.

BUT good tyres makes a massive difference and at less cost

Yellow Peril

I've not heard anyone say a bad word about ksyriums. If you can afford them they are worth a look.

Diversifying slightly, does anyone have an opinion or experience of the sram wheel range yet?

wildmoustache

ksyriums are overpriced IMO. I've owned two pairs and sold them both. they are very solid but are nothing special weight-wise, have draggy hubs, and aren't very aero. i would rate even fairly basic to mid-range Campag and Shimano wheels (say ultegra level) above them.

there's no one perfect wheel. ideally you want a training pair and then an all out race pair (which would be light, aero and tubular) and then maybe a sportif pair (light, clincher) ...

i have carbon 50mm gigantex tubulars which weight about 1400g and very aerodynamic ... more importantly with tubs they handle the corners very sweetly and look, feel, and sound nice. very nice.

i also have shamal ultras which are about the same weight but more durable and good for sportif type rides. i'd say they are a not bad compromise as a do it all wheel.

Mettan

For budget reasons, I use a WH-5600 front and an old Kysrium SL rear - the 5600 provides a low-ish spoke count (which I like) , ok-ish hub and ok-ish weight. the old Kysrium SL rear is quite light at 840 grams, and works well enough - no complaints really. Would love a pair of DuraAce 7850's though.

JesseD

I am 95kg, and ride Fulcrum R1's for everything, they are great wheels, they look great (aero spokes), they are pretty stiff (no brake rub as of yet), they are lightish (1550g) and they are clinchers. If you are after a pair of do it all wheels I would get these, the only down side is the price (£500 approx)

I am now saving for a pair of deep section carbon wheels as well, these wheels will not make me faster (though I have told my OH they will so I can buy some ) but they do look cool and that as we all know is THE most important thing to look for in a wheelset.

thiscocks

wildmoustache wrote:

ksyriums are overpriced IMO. I've owned two pairs and sold them both. they are very solid but are nothing special weight-wise, have draggy hubs, and aren't very aero. i would rate even fairly basic to mid-range Campag and Shimano wheels (say ultegra level) above them.

Yes but If you want aero you buy aero wheels, not krysiums!

redddraggon

markwalker wrote:

r-sys (my favourite)

heavy airbrakes that had a habit of exploding?

R-SYS are slower than aksiums.....

Tom Butcher

I've got some Ksyrium ES and they are OK, bombproof and light being the main virtues - I got them cheap when I bought the bike - but if was spending a lot on wheels again I'd go for deep section - that should get you more free speed than going for light weight. I think you can get decent shallow profile wheels for less than Ksyrium money.

eh

As I did most of my racing at 3/4 level I just ran Open Pros on 105 hubs, 32x with Sapim spokes. Great wheels they are pretty fast,and easy to repair, just the thing for lower level racing.

phil s

JesseD wrote:

I am 95kg, and ride Fulcrum R1's for everything, they are great wheels, they look great (aero spokes), they are pretty stiff (no brake rub as of yet), they are lightish (1550g) and they are clinchers. If you are after a pair of do it all wheels I would get these, the only down side is the price (£500 approx)

Please explain how the fat spokes on the Fulcrums are any more aero than an Open Pro laced with Sapims or DT Swiss aero spokes. Are you sure about the weight or do you actually believe the manufacturer's stated weight?

JesseD

phil s wrote:

JesseD wrote:

I am 95kg, and ride Fulcrum R1's for everything, they are great wheels, they look great (aero spokes), they are pretty stiff (no brake rub as of yet), they are lightish (1550g) and they are clinchers. If you are after a pair of do it all wheels I would get these, the only down side is the price (£500 approx)

Please explain how the fat spokes on the Fulcrums are any more aero than an Open Pro laced with Sapims or DT Swiss aero spokes. Are you sure about the weight or do you actually believe the manufacturer's stated weight?

I didn't say the Fulcrums were more aero than Open Pro's laced with Sapims or DT Swiss aero spokes, I said that the Fulcrums look great cos they have aero spokes. As for the weight I did weigh mine when I got them, on a pair of electronic scales and they weren't a million miles away from the Manufactoturers stated weight.

Phil, I take it your not a fan of Fulcrum wheels then?

terongi

Yellow Peril wrote:

I've just re-read this and it looks like I'm Imelda Marcos with wheels

Do you have a large collection of roller skates?

dennisn

eh wrote:

As I did most of my racing at 3/4 level I just ran Open Pros on 105 hubs, 32x with Sapim spokes. Great wheels they are pretty fast,and easy to repair, just the thing for lower level racing.

I'm with you. Way too much hype on wheels(and just about everything else). People buy into it though or they just have to have something that they think makes them look like a pro. I think a lot of people buy these things because you're "supposed to".

Dennis Noward

Yellow Peril

I agree that there is an element of hype and big budgets for wheels are proably best spent on aero hoops for TT's.

However, if you are "Sh1t but keen" as I am (and Kg90+) then a set of light and well shod wheels makes a hell of a difference when the pace of a race changes or you hit an incline.

StrangelyBrown

dennisn wrote:

eh wrote:

As I did most of my racing at 3/4 level I just ran Open Pros on 105 hubs, 32x with Sapim spokes. Great wheels they are pretty fast,and easy to repair, just the thing for lower level racing.

I'm with you. Way too much hype on wheels(and just about everything else). People buy into it though or they just have to have something that they think makes them look like a pro. I think a lot of people buy these things because you're "supposed to".

Dennis Noward

Which is part of why I asked the question. They aren't cheap. It would be nice to know if anyone can (or can't) genuinly say a wheel made a big difference. I'd be pretty hacked off if I splashed £500 on a set of wheels and couldn't tell the difference.

On the other hand, even it's only a placebo effect then it works. I know I have some riding clothing that makes me feel 'better' just because I like it more.

don key

StrangelyBrown wrote:

dennisn wrote:

eh wrote:

As I did most of my racing at 3/4 level I just ran Open Pros on 105 hubs, 32x with Sapim spokes. Great wheels they are pretty fast,and easy to repair, just the thing for lower level racing.

I'm with you. Way too much hype on wheels(and just about everything else). People buy into it though or they just have to have something that they think makes them look like a pro. I think a lot of people buy these things because you're "supposed to".

Dennis Noward

Which is part of why I asked the question. They aren't cheap. It would be nice to know if anyone can (or can't) genuinly say a wheel made a big difference. I'd be pretty hacked off if I splashed £500 on a set of wheels and couldn't tell the difference.

On the other hand, even it's only a placebo effect then it works. I know I have some riding clothing that makes me feel 'better' just because I like it more.

It's is the most obvious thing I have ever learned in cycling, go from shit to good or excellent wheels and it will show up in your performance, I won three weeks after buying Boras. Just buy them, Shamals or Eurus from NI for £560, Im getting the Shamal 2 way fit for £605 in Essex.

acorn_user

I race and train on the same wheels. Campagnolo Athena hubs laced to Rigida Chrina and FIR rims (I bent the rear Rigida in a crash). They are easy to service, not that they ever need any servicing, and strong. They are also pretty weighty but that's ok. I am a student, so I race what I can afford to sort of maybe replace. (Please don't break my wheels!)

andyrr

If you are the lower end of the racing scale (ie cat 3 or 4 , not some super Cat 1 / E, then by all means go for carbon deep-sections but there is a risk with these.
I have a pair of 50mm P-X wheels and after a good 5 years the front is still ok but the rear got pretty trashed when I was mid-bunch and it started lining-out at the start of a rough, pot-holed section and I smacked pretty hard into at least 1 nasty hole. It was either stick to the wheel in frontor get dropped from the pace-line and in doing so I had poor sight of the road surface.
The rim has sections of carbon that have broken away - rim is reasonably true but not safe to use.
Ali rim would probably just have needed trued but the tub never punctured - a clincher would have I'm sure.
Doubt a 50mm ali rim would get close to the weight of the P-Xs and I still use the front for TT'ing.
Commonly a carbon rimmed wheel will also be for tubular tyres so it also depends a bit of you want tubs or clinchers. I personally prefer tubs as I feel they roll a bit better and corner nicer too but that is a bit of s separate argument to the OP's query.
If I was buying a pair of decent RR wheels then there is a lot of choice at varying price levels : Easton wheels seem to be pretty light for the money and they do some deep section ones too.
Kysiriums are mega popular : most people seem to have positive experiences of them, lightish and strong. Alternative is maybe to consider a handbuilt pair, really nice hubs (Hope, Tune, Campag Record, Dura Ace etc) and team with the rim of your choice (simple Open Pros or fancier deep-section,clincher or tub) and nice spokes will give a strong light pair of wheels that can be repaired simply, no waiting for ages for parts for factory wheels. If you do then move upwards then these can easily become good trainign wheels and your carbon wheels can be your good pair.

wildmoustache

StrangelyBrown wrote:

dennisn wrote:

eh wrote:

As I did most of my racing at 3/4 level I just ran Open Pros on 105 hubs, 32x with Sapim spokes. Great wheels they are pretty fast,and easy to repair, just the thing for lower level racing.

I'm with you. Way too much hype on wheels(and just about everything else). People buy into it though or they just have to have something that they think makes them look like a pro. I think a lot of people buy these things because you're "supposed to".

Dennis Noward

Which is part of why I asked the question. They aren't cheap. It would be nice to know if anyone can (or can't) genuinly say a wheel made a big difference. I'd be pretty hacked off if I splashed £500 on a set of wheels and couldn't tell the difference.

On the other hand, even it's only a placebo effect then it works. I know I have some riding clothing that makes me feel 'better' just because I like it more.

Yes. Aksiums do feel more sliuggish than say, Shamals. At cruising speed it makes no difference, but the Shamals feel a little bit faster when accelerating and a bit better when climbing. The difference is very small however (but I do think it is within the range of perception.