Team Sky

GroupOfOne MkII

A development squad would be very good, kind of like the current Halfords set up, just competing in Premier Calendar (haha if it still exists) and other domestic events would be a very good idea. You never know, maybe plans for such a thing will emerge.

Wouldn't particularly want the full Sky team turning up and dominating the domestic scene, but then again I'd hope BC wouldn't want to potentially damage their own calendar with their own team!

Euskatel receive funding from the Basque government, but I'm not sure if you could say they're controlled by a federation. Though I suppose it is closer to this than say Iles Baleras sponsoring Caisse. Probably closer is the relationship between Gianni Savio's team and Venezuela, though I'm still not sure it's a national federation actually owning and running a pro team.

graeme_s-2

I really can't understand why people think that Sky sponsoring a cycling team would lead to them gaining exclusive rights to broadcast cycling in the UK. Why would they bother? Why pay millions of pounds to have your logo on a bunch of cyclists, and then pay millions more to make sure that the only people who get to see those logos are your existing customers?

If they wanted to televise cycling, then surely they would just buy the television rights to broadcast and not bother with the sponsorship. If they're going to the expense of sponsoring a team, then surely it's worth making sure that prospective customers rather than only existing customers get to see their logos.

This exact same discussion came up when Sky sponsored the track team, and it didn't make any sense then either!

andyp

FJS wrote:

Rabobank also sponsors the Dutch cycling federation, and there's definitely some cooperation, with the pro-team profiling itself as a 'national team'.
In that respect I find it very surprising that the Team Sky proposal doesn't mention an U23/continental development squad, like Rabobank and some other teams have; you would think it would be a necessary part of a federation-managed project....

British Cycling have been running an under-23 development squad, under Rod Ellingworth, for some time and the first graduates of that program turned pro this year. Cavendish was part of this setup.

These guys have been based in Italy riding the Italian under-23 calendar and have been doing very well. Both Ben Swift (neo-pro with Katusha) and Peter Kennaugh won established Italian semi-classics last year.

I find the high levels of cynicism on this thread very depressing. The least we can do is wish BC well on this venture. It's a tough task but I'm sure they are aware of that.

GroupOfOne MkII

Ah yes Andy, and very successful the GB Academy has been (when you think Swift, Stannard, Cav etc have all gone onto greater things in just a short space of time), also probably not getting quite the recognition they deserve. I know Rod's now moved up and Darren Tudor is the new Academy boss, but I'm sure things will continue especially with the likes of both Kennaugh's, Fenn, Rowsell etc.

Also the 100% ME is basically an academy team on the track isn't it?

I think though what I was getting at is it would be nice to see a small, say 5 or 6 rider U23, professional academy squad (Continental registered maybe), run as a separate team, competing domestically in Britain (also as a way to help boost the domestic scene), in for example the SKY kit. Much like a situation with the Rabobank U23 or the old CA Espoirs etc.

markwalker

andyp wrote:

FJS wrote:

Rabobank also sponsors the Dutch cycling federation, and there's definitely some cooperation, with the pro-team profiling itself as a 'national team'.
In that respect I find it very surprising that the Team Sky proposal doesn't mention an U23/continental development squad, like Rabobank and some other teams have; you would think it would be a necessary part of a federation-managed project....

British Cycling have been running an under-23 development squad, under Rod Ellingworth, for some time and the first graduates of that program turned pro this year. Cavendish was part of this setup.

These guys have been based in Italy riding the Italian under-23 calendar and have been doing very well. Both Ben Swift (neo-pro with Katusha) and Peter Kennaugh won established Italian semi-classics last year.

I find the high levels of cynicism on this thread very depressing. The least we can do is wish BC well on this venture. It's a tough task but I'm sure they are aware of tha t.

O here we go again, disparaging comments about other posters views. Youre like gandalf talking to the hobbits. Why is the least we can do to wish BC well on this venture? People have laughed and are cynical because amongst other things BC wont hit their targets unless theyre willing to embrace the very things that damage sport and lead to loss of sponsorship.

stagehopper

andyp beat me to the answer on the U23 thing - with Sky's sponsorship of British Cycling (and not just through the Sky+HD track team) they are in effect sponsoring the U23 development squad.

On national feds/pro teams - Cofidis sponsor the best French track riders (Sireau, Bourgain etc) as well as running the pro-team.

Not to be overlooked in all this - Nicole Cooke's new team which seems to be struggling to get off the ground, and needs far less resources for a much smaller team and a smaller programme. And that's for a current Olympic and World Champion and double tour winner. No "pie in the sky" dreams there.

carbonfiend

a development squad, for what?? Bollox to that I say lets go for it. Brailsford has shown he is a man with high ambitions and aspirations and has clearly proven he can deliver, so why not a tour winner in 5 years -who had Contador down as the force he has turned out to be, even Bruyneel admits he was taken back by what AC has turned into. My only gripe would be seeing cycling on Sky but hey if thats what it takes to elevate british cycling further up the ladder then I see it as a small price to pay. This might also be the final nail in the coffin for that race series that ironically calls itself 'the premier calender' Lets face it as well a tour winner is no more pie in the sky than beliveing those over paid jokers who wear 3 lions on their chest are gonna win the world cup and how many of us fall for that one '....this time on paper....'

FransJacques

Ah - I knew these very names would come up, much like the proverbial termite in the woodpile:
Contador, Riis (who saw that coming), Landis, Ulrich, etc. This is what Brasilford is up against. This is what he'll wonder if his highly technical apporach can beat. The unknown of drugs.

As VBD recently said, it was easier in the mid 90s when the playing field was level because everyone was on 55-60 using the same stuff.

Will our sense of fair play prevent us from playing to win?

Enough silly comments for now, let's at least let the man publish a white paper or announce his plans in more detail before further conjecture on outcomes.

In my field, this is called trading on rumour, I'd rather read the bond prospectus first.

eh

I don't think it is as stupid as some are suggesting a team albeit Top 10 might be a more realistic suggestion, but why not aim high.

I'd really like Geraint Thomas to have proper crack on the road for the next couple of seasons, as for me he has the most talent out of the current crop to be an all rounder certainly to become a rider in the style of David Millar.

alfablue

Brailsford is no fool, and neither is he in the business of second best. It's a tall order but "he who dares, wins....Rodders".

squired

Nicholas Roche managed 13th in the Vuelta last year, which was a huge surprise for many and he is only in his early 20s. Who knows what some of our young guys like Swift, Bellis, Stannard, etc, could do if given the right opportunities and coaching.

If a British cyclist could get into the top 10 in any grand tour in the next 5 years, let along the TDF, I'd be happy. However, I like it that they are thinking big. Do we want to be like British atheletes, who are happy to make it to the Olympics, or to get as far as the semi-final in their track event? I'd rather we aimed high and didn't quite achieve it rather than aiming for something mediocre and succeeding.

mrushton

carbonfiend wrote:

a development squad, for what?? Bollox to that I say lets go for it. Brailsford has shown he is a man with high ambitions and aspirations and has clearly proven he can deliver, so why not a tour winner in 5 years -who had Contador down as the force he has turned out to be, even Bruyneel admits he was taken back by what AC has turned into. My only gripe would be seeing cycling on Sky but hey if thats what it takes to elevate british cycling further up the ladder then I see it as a small price to pay. This might also be the final nail in the coffin for that race series that ironically calls itself 'the premier calender' Lets face it as well a tour winner is no more pie in the sky than beliveing those over paid jokers who wear 3 lions on their chest are gonna win the world cup and how many of us fall for that one '....this time on paper....'

+1

We have some excellent riders - Chris Newton,the Downing Bros etc who had they had the opportunity might have been contenders. Malc. Elliott is still dishing it out at 50. we've managed to produce Barry Hoban/Max sciandri/Malcolm Elliott with nothing and suddenly with some money and effort we've got a British rider beating the worlds best on the road (who would have thought that 3 years ago)and other British riders winning on the track. Surely it follows that there is prob. an untapped pool of talent out there. The only way to find out is to offer the chance and see what we can do.

andyp

markwalker wrote:

O here we go again, disparaging comments about other posters views. Youre like gandalf talking to the hobbits. Why is the least we can do to wish BC well on this venture? People have laughed and are cynical because amongst other things BC wont hit their targets unless theyre willing to embrace the very things that damage sport and lead to loss of sponsorship.

This is a forum where people express their views. So far I've made no disparaging comments about other people's views on this thread, rather I said I found the cynicism depressing.

You clearly bear a grudge because I spoke up against your puerile thread yesterday. Get over it.

ridgerider

I hope they set a good British example and don't use race radios.

I can imagine a scenario whereby they might produce a contender to wn the TdF within 5 years. Let's not be too blinkered with the recent template for tour winners.

DaveyL

if you read Richard Moore's "Heroes, Villains and Velodromes", it's clear from what Peter Keen says that, when a huge chunk of National Lottery money was dropped on British Cycling, they chose to spend it on developing track success because (amongst other reasons of controllability etc.) they would not have been competitive on the road due to the doping issue, and those options were non-starters for British Cycling for various moral reasons, if not at least the threat it would pose to the Lottery funding should there be a doping scandal.

Perhaps this suggests Keen and Brailsford think that road cycling is now cleaned up enough (or will be in 5 - 10 years time) that they can be competitive without doping? Otherwise why would they bother - track dominance and a slew of gold medals are pretty much guaranteed (Taylor Phinnet notwithstanding) at the next couple of Olympics.

The Greg

I assume that the directeur sportif's team car will be a white van.

skavanagh.bikeradar

When this was last mooted in 2008 there was a lot of negativity on here about it. I don't subscribe to this at all. Sure, it isn't like the track and so the BC team will need new approaches and skills to succeed. BUT Braislford and his existing team are already very, very good at certain things and the track success and increasing road success with young riders is a testament to that. What they don't have experience of and where they are weak they are getting in expert help - Sunderland, Legay, and I'm sure there will be others.

Given the length of the deal, the budget they will have, it isn't unreasonable to expect that the Sky team might be able to sign non-British but top, top drawer foreign riders to bring immediate success and develop the younger riders.

I'm as interested in this aspect of the signings as anything else. I for one am excited and with them well.

Kléber

I'm excited too, any new team is great and one closer to home is even more interesting. I just think the "Tour win in five years" quote can strain their credibility a bit but it'll be interesting to see who they sign, certainly they can cherry pick several Barloworld riders and a lot of team sponsors are pulling out at the end of 2009 and 2010, so there will be easy signings. In the middle of a recession, it's a coup for cycling as a whole.

moray_gub

Kléber wrote:

Andy Schleck, Roman Kreuziger, Maxime Monfort, Pierre Rolland, Thomas Lovkvist, Taylor Phinney, Dan Martin to name but a few.

Mmmm a few of them are just a tad older than 21 indeed one of them is 26 ! At what point does he stop being up and coming ?


MG

skavanagh.bikeradar

I suspect the UCI will be wishing them too.

jamesag

Let's not talk about what they can't do, but what they can do. They could have Cavendish and Wiggins in their 2nd year, coming in after a first development year. That'd provide the backstop of results to allow the rest of the riders time to develop without immediate pressure from Sky for results. Armstrong had Cancer 3 years before his first victory, Contador wasn't a professional 5 years before his victory. If Team Sky or whatever they call themselves can rival the organisation of USPS/Discovery in their heyday they can beat anyone at whichever game they choose to play.

Maybe they will find a British winner within 5 years and maybe they won't, but by trying and being in the race they stand a bigger chance than anyone else has, and personally I think that's enough.

Yellow Peril

It is great news indeed

It is my understanding that part of the track success in recent years is that Brailsford is able to rule the riders with a fairly firm hand. Does the forum think that he will be able to control foreign guys, who he may recruit to strengthen the squad in depth and who are already professionals ,in quite the same way?

moray_gub

[quote="andyp"

comments about other people's views on this thread, rather I said I found the cynicism depressing.

.[/quote]

Did i hear someone say irony ?

MG

Kléber

jamesag wrote:

If Team Sky or whatever they call themselves can rival the organisation of USPS/Discovery in their heyday they can beat anyone at whichever game they choose to play.

No thank-you, I don't want that kind of organisation and preparation.

markwalker

Moray Gub wrote:

[quote="andyp"

comments about other people's views on this thread, rather I said I found the cynicism depressing.

.

Did i hear someone say irony ?

MG[/quote]

ha he wont get it though MG . But yes Andy i do wonder why you got so upset about a thread yet kept coming back to it over and over telling us all how childish we were yet it was only you that mentioned s ex or w**ing, so as i understand it your complaints meant the thread was reviewed but it was your disgusting innuendo and foul language that got it removed. Now thats ironic as well isnt it.

andyp

Moray Gub wrote:

Did i hear someone say irony ?

MG

You by the sounds of it.

What's your point? That my views on Armstrong are cynical? Maybe.

I don't see what that has to do at all with this new venture.

Moomaloid

I'm with Andy on this, can't believe there are any negative comments at all. I think its the most exciting thing to happen for British cycling in years. 5 years? Why not? Just look at Cervelo, already making waves in the sport. I bet they'll be in a position to win it before then. yes i know they have a tour winner already, but why can't this team attract riders like that. I think some riders might actually want to work with Brailsford.

I for one am excited, and happy that we'll have a home team to shout about!

kourou

As far as I can tell noone involved has used the words guaranteed alongside their aim to get a British Tour winner in 5 years. Its been just that, aim, objective, dream etc.

This is surely completely normal - a rider will outline with his coach exactly the same sort of aims - some short-, some long-term, some that he'd be annoyed not to achieve and some that are a stretch.

Its seems to me completely achievable for reasons others have put forward in this thread, so what is wrong with this aim? If you don't think they can do it fine, but clearly they have more belief, which is part of the battle.

I'm excited - good luck to them - I really can't see many negatives* in this at all (except perhaps for other teams, and the fact that someone could copy them, or poach staff etc.), and I don't lack cynicism when it is required - see footnote below...

* I'm sure someone will now oblige

Yellow Peril

Theo Bos to be approached to ride?

disgruntledgoat

Yellow Peril wrote:

It is great news indeed

It is my understanding that part of the track success in recent years is that Brailsford is able to rule the riders with a fairly firm hand. Does the forum think that he will be able to control foreign guys, who he may recruit to strengthen the squad in depth and who are already professionals ,in quite the same way?

Well... Feretti managed it.