Mash or Spin

always_tyred

biondino wrote:

Always Tyred, every time you posit an argument on here I'd like you also to back it up with video evidence if that's okay.

I'm just saying, 15% is a steep hill. If I took anyone up to a long hill of much more than 10%, they'd probably say, "Oh, that's a steep hill".

The sort of people who wouldn't are the sort of people who, if they trapped their testicles in a car door, would say, "That didn't hurt."


(Note: I do not in any way mean to investigate the require geometry that might result in testicular pinching within a car door).

(Also Note: Video evidence was offered. I'd accept photographic, time stamped evidence, from which we might back calculate cadence)

whyamihere

It's steep alright. To climb it that fast, I have to do it at the start of a ride after only warming up, and I still go anaerobic very very quickly. I've been sick at the top a couple of times from the effort. After that, I'm destroyed, and have to just spin home slowly, gently weeping from the pain.
So, it's not an everyday thing. But it's possible, and that was what I was pointing out.

always_tyred

whyamihere wrote:

It's steep alright. To climb it that fast, I have to do it at the start of a ride after only warming up, and I still go anaerobic very very quickly. I've been sick at the top a couple of times from the effort. After that, I'm destroyed, and have to just spin home slowly, gently weeping from the pain.
So, it's not an everyday thing. But it's possible, and that was what I was pointing out.

You claimed it wasn't that steep. I got all annoyed for no reason.

Where is it, just out of curiosity? I like finding hills in odd places in the UK, in case I visit.

whyamihere

Yeah, I meant that it's not unclimbably steep, rather than being easy as it probably sounded. Note to self: Read posts back properly before posting.

It's actually in South Staffordshire, near Cannock, hidden away on Cannock Chase. Called Stile Cop Road, approaching from the Rugeley side. Maximum gradient of around 21% for the really nasty bit, and used as a hill climb time trial course by a few local clubs. The area's downhill mountain bike tracks are built on the hill too...

always_tyred

whyamihere wrote:

Yeah, I meant that it's not unclimbably steep, rather than being easy as it probably sounded. Note to self: Read posts back properly before posting.

It's actually in South Staffordshire, near Cannock, hidden away on Cannock Chase. Called Stile Cop Road, approaching from the Rugeley side. Maximum gradient of around 21% for the really nasty bit, and used as a hill climb time trial course by a few local clubs. The area's downhill mountain bike tracks are built on the hill too...

If I'm looking at the right one, its about 1km long and you climb from 125m to about 205.

Looks like one of those ones that is straight so that you can see the pain all the way up. I prefer the twisty ones, physchologically speaking.

I have this 140-230m 1km stright line of pain near to me, which I've been able to add to my commute since the thaw.

http://www.multimap.com/s/S2S9HyfS

I do NOT spin up it. Spin about the first 50 yards, go steady for a while and then mash the rest of the way, especially in a head wind.

DonDaddyD

So much willy waving over one hill.

whyamihere, considering everything and the fact that I do struggle with bumbs in London, Chapeau!

Always Tyred:

The sort of people who wouldn't are the sort of people who, if they trapped their testicles in a car door, would say, "That didn't hurt."

Very freaking funny, chapeau to you to sir!

Chapeau to everyone. Now someone tell me what Chapeau actually means!?

jonginge

Hats off to you sir

cjcp

whyamihere wrote:

I've been sick at the top a couple of times from the effort.

:shock: 8) :shock:

greg66_tri_v2.0

Now this is funny.

whyamihere

Always Tyred wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

Yeah, I meant that it's not unclimbably steep, rather than being easy as it probably sounded. Note to self: Read posts back properly before posting.

It's actually in South Staffordshire, near Cannock, hidden away on Cannock Chase. Called Stile Cop Road, approaching from the Rugeley side. Maximum gradient of around 21% for the really nasty bit, and used as a hill climb time trial course by a few local clubs. The area's downhill mountain bike tracks are built on the hill too...

If I'm looking at the right one, its about 1km long and you climb from 125m to about 205.

Looks like one of those ones that is straight so that you can see the pain all the way up. I prefer the twisty ones, physchologically speaking.

I have this 140-230m 1km stright line of pain near to me, which I've been able to add to my commute since the thaw.

http://www.multimap.com/s/S2S9HyfS

I do NOT spin up it. Spin about the first 50 yards, go steady for a while and then mash the rest of the way, especially in a head wind.

Having checked an OS map that I found, you're right, and mapmyride lies (or I did something wrong). Average is around 10% over the 1.5km (there's a little extra bit of climbing that Google maps don't display properly), but the middle 400m or so is between 15 and 20%, peaking at 21%. So, we've conclusively proved that I'm a much worse rider than I thought the stats suggested. Hooray!

EDIT: It is a nasty climb psychologically. The first bit is fairly easy, with tall hedges on either side of the road blocking your view of the rest. You then go round a bend, and unless you crane your neck right up, all you can see is tarmac, because it gets steeper very quickly and goes on for a long way.

roger_merriman

na you've just proved that google maps data is imperfect to flog the dead horse.

but there is more to a hill than stats, sounds a fairly nasty climb and your fairly fast up it.

lost_in_thought

Greg66 wrote:

Now this is funny.

That really IS funny...

I need carbon fiber socks.

always_tyred

roger merriman wrote:

na you've just proved that google maps data is imperfect to flog the dead horse.

but there is more to a hill than stats, sounds a fairly nasty climb and your fairly fast up it.

I love people who closely follow threads and/or participate in threads and, at the end, declare the whole matter pointless.

jonginge

Greg66 wrote:

Now this is funny.

Snorted coffee when I read he left his timing chip behind...

il_principe

JonGinge wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Now this is funny.

Snorted coffee when I read he left his timing chip behind...

I want to feel sorry for the guy, but what a doofus. Gotta get the training in buddy!

itboffin

A proper hard man would have swallowed the sick and would never been seen lying down afterwards unless it was to knock-out a couple of 'cool-down' one handed press ups - MTFU! you lightweight

itboffin

I did 18 miles this afternoon using only the BIG RING which is something i've not done since Sept. In short it was bl**dy hard work, back to spinning tomorrow

jimmypippa

DonDaddyD wrote:

You are all confused. I'll ask my Dad if I have to...

Fast-twitch muscles are used for sprinting. If you are spinning at a high rate i.e. legs moving really quickly (less resistance due to lower gear inch but high speed due to the rpm) then you are using fast-twitch muscles.

Slow muscles utilise oxygen better and therefore are the muscle of choice for long distance runners. Given the extreme distances achieved by cyclists, all cyclists have to have a reasonable amount of highly developed slow-twitch muscles.

The term mash has more to do with physical strength not truly dependant on either fast or slow muscles. Cyclists that mash don't have to have exceptional fast twitch muscles because they aren't moving their legs fast enough. However due to the distance ridden by cyclists a masher is likely to have more developed slow-twitch muscles than the fast ones. Whereas a spinner is likely to have slow twitch muscles but more developed fast twitch muscles than the person who mashes. That's the comparison.

---

To be honest most cyclists have a combination of both, given the distance cyclists ride slow muscles are a must, while spinning the pedals really fast requires fast muscles. This also means short cyclists make for faster cyclists because of the distance information travels from the brain to the muscles and back - so everyone watch out for the vertically challenged Bassjunkie.

Someone like Sir Chris Hoy has good fast-twitch muscles combined with incredible physical strength. Chris Hoy is the 100m sprinter of the cycling world.

A Tour rider (who isn't the sprinter of the team) is likely to rely more on slow twitch muscles to handle the distance. He still needs good physical strength to handle those big gears. These are the long distance runners.

Mark Cavendish probably has a good combination of both fast and slow twitch muscles. Fast muscles because he is a sprinter/spinner of his team and slow muscles because he is still able to ride the extreme distances. He is like the 400m (which is basically a sprint around the track) 800m (same as the 400m but twice around the track) and longer distance runner of the cycling world.

Its a combination of muscles not one muscle for one person and the other type for another.

Yup, DonDaddyD

As you, AlwaysTyred, and the original article say, the slow twitch is endurance, whilst the fast twitch is explosive strength.

Surely, to keep at a particular road speed, you can use high-gear, low cadence and more effort per stroke (hence fast twitch), or low-gear, high cadence, and less effort per stroke, but more frequently, (hence slow-twitch).