Equipment used in racing

Bhima

I've just been reading about the extreme lengths people go to to get as aerodynamic and lightweight as possible during time trials and it makes me wonder - why, if the difference is worth all that effort, do they not use the special bikes/skinsuits/helmets/wheels/etc ALL the time and not just in time trials?

calvjones

I believe one of the Garmin boys did this in one of the GTs last year? Not mad Dave Z though? The reckoned it was worth a second or two per KM, but he had nowhere to keep his cereal bars. Was in the break but didn't win the stage IIRC.

Who the frig was it now...?

calvjones

Oh, yeah and the UCI wont let you use a TT bike on a road stage because you couldn't steer or brake properly in the bunch with Aero bars.

Kléber

calvjones wrote:

I believe one of the Garmin boys did this in one of the GTs last year? Not mad Dave Z though? The reckoned it was worth a second or two per KM, but he had nowhere to keep his cereal bars. Was in the break but didn't win the stage IIRC.

Who the frig was it now...?

It was Zabriskie in Paris-Tours

schlepcycling

Also there's more to winning a road stage than just aerodynamics, there's all the tactics, sprints, breaks, you've got team mates to help you or block for you, whereas at TT'ing is you against the clock so how fast you can go is over the required distance is ALL that matters.

Some people do wear skinsuits for road racing didn't Nicole Cook wear one last year when she won the World Championships?.

Tempestas

Rob Hayles wore a skin suit in the national road champs last year too

I am off to buy a skinsuit now

Bronzie

Bhima wrote:

why do they not use the special bikes/skinsuits/helmets/wheels/etc ALL the time and not just in time trials?

Because it makes little difference when you are riding in someone elses slipstream (which during a road race stage is most of the time).

Also TT bars etc are not allowed in bunch racing as you can't reach the brakes quickly. They would also be pretty uncomfortable to ride for long distances due to the extreme position.

Increasingly, wheels used in flat stages are fairly aero now, but deep section aero wheels (and disc wheels) come with a weight disadvantage so you rarely see them if a race includes substantial climbing.

Tom Butcher

I noticed all three in the break last night in California had deep sections on - as did Cav - Boonen didn't - presumably because he thinks they accelerate slower than a lighter shallow rim? It was quite a long sprint though and given how close he was at the end - maybe an inch or two - could that have cost him the race.

16simon

People are recognising the importance of aerodynamics in road racing - this is why aero road frames (Felt, Time, etc), aero road bars (Oval - the tops are an aero shape), deep section rims, and aero clothing (Pearl Izumi) are increasingly popular.

Monty Dog

The reasons for 'aero' kit coming into RR's is that the marketing people have to find new products and ideas to bring to a relatively mature market. There are so many other deciding factors in a roadrace - the marketing people will tell you otherwise - that the incremental benefits are extremely marginal. I laugh at some of the claims made about the latest aero road frames being worth a 1-minute gain over 40km? When you read the testing protocol, it doesn't tell you that they test the bike only and not with a rider aboard with whirring legs disrupting their carefully designed airflow - aerodynamics counts for very little beyond the front wheel and two riders working well on 1960's steel bikes are going to have a greater advantage over 2 guys riding badly on modern bikes - simply put, the right training and race craft is a far more deciding factor in a race than any amount of money spent on kit

eh

Also don't over look comfort, a 30km TT is very different from repeated days of 160km+. At the end of the day if you end up with cramp or back pains of whatever you won't be performing at anywhere near your best.

Monty good point. I bet a 1960's road bike is hardly any different to a modern road bike in aero terms, not much has changed maybe a few less spokes and errr thats about it (deep sections excluded). If anything the big fat tubes used now are possibly worse than the skinny steel ones popular till the late 80's.

nick hanson

eh wrote:

Also don't over look comfort, a 30km TT is very different from repeated days of 160km+. At the end of the day if you end up with cramp or back pains of whatever you won't be performing at anywhere near your best.

Monty good point. I bet a 1960's road bike is hardly any different to a modern road bike in aero terms, not much has changed maybe a few less spokes and errr thats about it (deep sections excluded). If anything the big fat tubes used now are possibly worse than the skinny steel ones popular till the late 80's.

Yep,i seem to recall that a road bike on it's own,threading the cables along the bars (ie under the bar tape),the bike was more aero....
However,put a rider on the bike,& the 'old' style,cables coming out of the top of the brake levers comes out more aero,as the cables marginally break up the air before it hits the rider!

Bhima

Right! Ok, I understand now!

I was thinking more along the lines of if you were in a breakaway group, where every second counted - forgot completely about the safety issues when in the pelloton! Surely you could have some kind of compromise for a flat/short stage though? Maybe a TT bike without aero bars...?

Just been speaking to some guys down the local bike shop about this and one of them once tried a TT bike on hilly terrain - he said that disk wheels combined with aero bars were a nightmare on the descents because of the 50mph crosswinds you can get! I guess he's right! :!:

teagar

Bhima wrote:

Right! Ok, I understand now!

I was thinking more along the lines of if you were in a breakaway group, where every second counted - forgot completely about the safety issues when in the pelloton! Surely you could have some kind of compromise for a flat/short stage though? Maybe a TT bike without aero bars...?

Just been speaking to some guys down the local bike shop about this and one of them once tried a TT bike on hilly terrain - he said that disk wheels combined with aero bars were a nightmare on the descents because of the 50mph crosswinds you can get! I guess he's right! :!:

The UCI also has different rules for bicycle geometry for road bikes vs TT bikes as well.
You can't have one of those seat tubes that wraps around the rear wheel in road races for example.

jibberjim

Bhima wrote:

Right! Ok, I understand now!

I was thinking more along the lines of if you were in a breakaway group, where every second counted - forgot completely about the safety issues when in the pelloton! Surely you could have some kind of compromise for a flat/short stage though? Maybe a TT bike without aero bars...?

That's pretty much what the Cervelo S3/S2 (old Soloists) are, aero road bikes.

If you note that last year Sastre wouldn't ride a Soloist, because it wasn't comfortable enough, and that's without even thinking about the front position. He does ride one this year though, supposedly the S3 is a lot more comfortable, due to the rear triangle being more like an R3.

Jim.