Why is cycle to work scheme so popular?

amaferanga

andy_wrx wrote:

Instead, if you can find yourself a bike at your LBS or on the web which is last-years-model or similar and is being sold at significantly less than RRP, that might actually be cheaper than buying a bike at full RRP through cycle-to-work and getting the tax&NI savings...

Some bike shops will sell you bikes at sale prices on C2W schemes. I'm about to get a £1200 Kuota for a little over a grand which will only actually cost me about £600.

Squaggles

Does it really encourage people to cycle to work who wouldn't have done otherwise ? I'm not sure about that at all .

Cheshley

amaferanga wrote:

andy_wrx wrote:

Instead, if you can find yourself a bike at your LBS or on the web which is last-years-model or similar and is being sold at significantly less than RRP, that might actually be cheaper than buying a bike at full RRP through cycle-to-work and getting the tax&NI savings...

Some bike shops will sell you bikes at sale prices on C2W schemes. I'm about to get a £1200 Kuota for a little over a grand which will only actually cost me about £600.

Our scheme allowed you to use the Wheelies.co.uk website (all at full retail) or a selection of local bike shops. At the time JE James cycles in Rotherham were selling Felt Virtue 4 MTB's at half price and I know of a couple of people who got these (unfortunately they didn't have one big enough for my 6ft 5 bulk).

Pip13

Squaggles wrote:

Does it really encourage people to cycle to work who wouldn't have done otherwise ? I'm not sure about that at all .

It did me, I did not want to fork out a load of cash for a bike at the beginning. The introduction of the scheme at my company was the kick up the a**e for me to ditch the car and get a bike. Have been cycling to work since April and haven't given up yet!

It has also encouraged at least 10 others in my office building as the bike rack these days is pretty much full whereas a year ago you were lucky to see one bike there.

rolf_f

Squaggles wrote:

Does it really encourage people to cycle to work who wouldn't have done otherwise ? I'm not sure about that at all .

As I said before, it did me. I doubt I would have bothered had it not been for the scheme. Infact, it helped encourage me to restore my old touring bike as well.

Rhods

After touring in France on an MTB I was desperate to get into road cycling. This has allowed me to buy a more expensive road bike than I could have afforded otherwise. If I enjoy it, I'll spend more money. But, £1k is enough to get me started, and I think it's enough to commute.

However, I am doubtful of how many people have taken to commuting as a result of the scheme. But I suppose cyclists can think of it as a reward - keep going!

Eau Rouge

Encouraging people to cycle to work is a nice side benefit of the scheme, nothing more. It may help tick some boxes in the DfT but thats about it.
Helping bike shops sell more bikes is a nice side benefit of the scheme, especially now there is a recession on.
Reducing the National Insurance bill of large employers, especially multinationals who could just as easily open their new EU factory/offices in Slovakia as Sheffield is the main driver of this, and all the other, salary sacrifice schemes. Your employers pays a larger amount of NI than you do, and this country has been actively competing with the rest of the EU for foreign investment for years now. Cutting the cost of employing people (as this scheme does) is a part of it.

My employers have decided to increase their savings even further by keeping the claimed-back VAT for "admin". They do let us go to £1500 though, and let us top that up if we so wish.

dazzawazza

doyler78 wrote:

Personally it is current cyclists buying themselves new bikes that they probably wouldn't have bought in the first place without the scheme.

I disagree. A mate of mine purchased a bike on the scheme having never commuted by bike in his life. Actually a few months before he had basically laughed at me saying, “I used to ride a bike when I was 12”.
At the time he was actually excited about the purchase knowing the savings he would make. Since then he has moved in with his girlfriend (no previous experience) who also purchased a bike on the scheme. Both of them are now committed cycle commuters.
I also think £1000 is plenty. When I started out I was commuting on a £50 second hand MTB and made do with cloths I already had. Of course I spent some £ on some necessities, but f-all really. It was a year and a half before I really started to get into cycling as a hobby, at which point the spending became out of control.
I know several people at work who commute to work using the bare basics.
A lot of the accessory cost can be for bad winter weather and if a commuter just doesn’t cycle in during those times it doesn’t make the scheme a failure for them.

doyler78

dazzawazza wrote:

doyler78 wrote:

Personally it is current cyclists buying themselves new bikes that they probably wouldn't have bought in the first place without the scheme.

I disagree. A mate of mine purchased a bike on the scheme having never commuted by bike in his life. Actually a few months before he had basically laughed at me saying, “I used to ride a bike when I was 12”.
At the time he was actually excited about the purchase knowing the savings he would make. Since then he has moved in with his girlfriend (no previous experience) who also purchased a bike on the scheme. Both of them are now committed cycle commuters.
I also think £1000 is plenty. When I started out I was commuting on a £50 second hand MTB and made do with cloths I already had. Of course I spent some £ on some necessities, but f-all really. It was a year and a half before I really started to get into cycling as a hobby, at which point the spending became out of control.
I know several people at work who commute to work using the bare basics.
A lot of the accessory cost can be for bad winter weather and if a commuter just doesn’t cycle in during those times it doesn’t make the scheme a failure for them.

Dazzawazza people seem to confuse what I'm saying by taking what I say as a though it something much more rigid than I have actually said.

Nowhere have I argued that no bikes are being bought on the scheme by people who never previously commuted however I am of the opinion that the vast majority of bikes on the scheme are for bikes being bought for people who already ride a bike (don't forget all those that buy bikes for their teenage and adult family members - yes I know people who have done this). I am also of the belief that quite a few of these bikes being bought by existing cyclists are probably for additional or replacement bikes which they would not have otherwise bought. Just search these threads on cycle to work and you will find many examples of such

As regards the £1000 limit I am not saying either that you can't muddle by on this sum what I did say that if people new cycle commuting were to buy properly fitting clothing and proper equipment which helps to encourage them to cycle more particularly if they intend to cycle through the dark nights and bad weather then the £1000 will not be enough for some. It certainly wouldn't be enough for me. I suspect part of the problem that people have with this is that they don't understand the demands of cycle commuting when you aren't talking about a 3 mile trip to the office. I do 14 or 18 miles on my commute and a lot of that is on unlit roads. I'm sorry I can't find comfortable gear cheaply which allows me to do that. If you don't want people to give up then give them proper advice regarding clothing equipment necessary for their commute and not just the cheapest because how many give up because there commute was just plain unpleasant. Easy for us here in a forum where people come on and say "oh I commute with just this or that and you just get on with it and buy things when you can afford them". They like me are the ones that stick with things there are many who will never find their way here to get the advice and will have given thinking that cycling is just about the worst thing they can spend their time doing. If you can prove to me that these assumptions that I have made are grossly inaccurate then I will perhaps reconsider but I doubt there is anyone that can that for certain.

dazzawazza

True, but for some of the people taking advantage of the scheme it's probably just slightly balancing out some of the many tax inequities. For example Stamp Duty!

rolf_f

doyler78 wrote:

As regards the £1000 limit I am not saying either that you can't muddle by on this sum what I did say that if people new cycle commuting were to buy properly fitting clothing and proper equipment which helps to encourage them to cycle more particularly if they intend to cycle through the dark nights and bad weather then the £1000 will not be enough for some. It certainly wouldn't be enough for me. I suspect part of the problem that people have with this is that they don't understand the demands of cycle commuting when you aren't talking about a 3 mile trip to the office. I do 14 or 18 miles on my commute and a lot of that is on unlit roads. I'm sorry I can't find comfortable gear cheaply which allows me to do that.

Some people consider a cheap bike one that costs £200. Others consider it to be one that costs £2000 and I dare say the same is the case with clothing. You can get kitted up for well under £500, as a beginner, without buying 'cheap' (ie poor quality) clothing and safety gear; the reviews on this website prove that. I suspect you might consider such gear cheap but it certainly does the job for me. In no way is £1000 only enough to 'muddle by' IMO. I'd say that any beginner who just wants a commuting hack would be being quite extravagent in blowing the whole £1000.

In any case, why shouldn't people be talking about a 3 mile trip to the office? My ride is 7.5 miles each way and the stuff I've bought is quite comfy enough for that. Probably most peoples commutes would be of that order so their needs wouldn't be that dissimilar to mine. I suspect that most people that live 15 miles from work are going to need more than the bike to work scheme to convince them to abandon the car anyway! I know I wouldn't be prepared to cycle that far each day.

mikey_748

amaferanga wrote:

andy_wrx wrote:

Instead, if you can find yourself a bike at your LBS or on the web which is last-years-model or similar and is being sold at significantly less than RRP, that might actually be cheaper than buying a bike at full RRP through cycle-to-work and getting the tax&NI savings...

Some bike shops will sell you bikes at sale prices on C2W schemes. I'm about to get a £1200 Kuota for a little over a grand which will only actually cost me about £600.

Agreed - went into my LBS and offered £1000 for a Giant SCR C4 that was £1250 and they let me have it - costs me about £500 on the scheme so cant complain

mikey_748

Squaggles wrote:

Does it really encourage people to cycle to work who wouldn't have done otherwise ? I'm not sure about that at all .

Cant talk for every company but at mine, there was an increase from 5/6 regular cyclists to 15/16 - this is expected to go up when the scheme reopens next month as lots of others fancy getting in on it

simon_e

For anyone dealing with cyclescheme.co.uk, check the contract carefully. I recommended a colleague go to the LBS and via them and we found a clause that states the ownership goes back to Cyclescheme at the end of the hire period and the end user can buy it from them. Odd, as it's not mentioned on their website. Another member of staff bought hers through Leisure Lakes and had no such issues. There was another point we raised but I forget what it was exactly. I'm not saying Cyclescheme are pulling a fast one, just thought I'd mention it. I believe they are going to send another version of the contract without the offending clauses.

I don't understand all this complaining over whether £1,000 is enough. Goodness me, talk about wanting your cake and eating it!
<shakes head>
C2W is a tax incentive scheme and not intended as a bling-acquisition excuse for people who already have 4 decent bikes and want another 2k carbon bike to add to the collection.

And to anyone who complains that self-employed people don't benefit from the scheme then let's compare NI monthly contributions, income tax and deductibles. That might change the perspective somewhat.

doyler78

Simon E wrote:

For anyone dealing with cyclescheme.co.uk, check the contract carefully. I recommended a colleague go to the LBS and via them and we found a clause that states the ownership goes back to Cyclescheme at the end of the hire period and the end user can buy it from them. Odd, as it's not mentioned on their website. Another member of staff bought hers through Leisure Lakes and had no such issues. There was another point we raised but I forget what it was exactly. I'm not saying Cyclescheme are pulling a fast one, just thought I'd mention it. I believe they are going to send another version of the contract without the offending clauses.

I don't understand all this complaining over whether £1,000 is enough. Goodness me, talk about wanting your cake and eating it!
<shakes head>
C2W is a tax incentive scheme and not intended as a bling-acquisition excuse for people who already have 4 decent bikes and want another 2k carbon bike to add to the collection.

And to anyone who complains that self-employed people don't benefit from the scheme then let's compare NI monthly contributions, income tax and deductibles. That might change the perspective somewhat.

:roll: :roll:

I'm the only person arguing £1k may not be enough for all new commuters and it has nothing to do with your assumption above :roll: :roll:

simon_e

doyler78 wrote:

I'm the only person arguing £1k may not be enough for all new commuters and it has nothing to do with your assumption above :roll: :roll:

.... in this single thread.

My comments were a generalisation as I've seen that stated previously. And perhaps you only have 2 bikes and 1 old nail ;-)