Why roadie and not MTB clipless pedals?

jam1e

Everytime a question about clipless pedals is asked somebody usually states that proper roadie clipless pedals are "more efficient" than their mtb equivalent (XTR spds, Ti eggbeaters etc) - so what makes the average roadie design more efficient than it's off road counterpart?

redddraggon

Road pedals feel more secure at least they do to me, but I'm happy using both road and MTB pedals.

softlad

dunno about more efficient, but MTB pedals generally have a single contact point with the shoe/cleat, whereas road pedals generally have two (I'm talking mainly about the Look & Time style pedals) - but the differences are marginal...

jam1e

See I understand if people have a personal preference but it's normally stated as some kind of fact - roadie tyres roll faster than knobblies and roadie clipless pedals are more efficient than mtb clipless pedals...

softlad

jam1e wrote:

See I understand if people have a personal preference but it's normally stated as some kind of fact - roadie tyres roll faster than knobblies and roadie clipless pedals are more efficient than mtb clipless pedals...

I haven't seen it stated as 'fact' anywhere - probably because it isn't. Efficiency will have more to do with power transfer through your foot/shoe. Having said that, I can't see there being much of a contest between knobblies and slicks on tarmac...

jam1e

Oh yeah slicks versus knobblies no contest drag etc etc - but like I say, it's more the way the pedals are claimed to be more efficient without any reasoning to back it up.

Nack

Road clipless shoes have got a much larger shoe contact area which results in a more efficient transfer of power. I've got both systems - SPD on the mountain bike, SPD SL on the road bike - and they've both got their own advantage: the SPD system is more flexible and allows for shoes to be easily released, whereas the Shimano SPD SL pedals / shoes (as well as other roadie systems) definitely 'feel' faster but can be slightly more awkward to release! I'm not convinced myself, but I've heard that the roadie pedals (ie, SPD SL, Look Keo, etc...) are lighter than the MTB pedals (as they've got a one-sided design) which constitutes in itself a good 'selling" point.

I think that it really depends on how you ride - if you're likely to take breaks regularly (when touring for instance), then go for SPDs otherwise roadie systems might be more suitable for you. Another thing to bear in mind, in my experience, the SPD cleats last much longer than the SPD SL's, which I"ve had to replace about twice as frequently!

jam1e

Nack wrote:

Road clipless shoes have got a much larger shoe contact area which results in a more efficient transfer of power. I've got both systems - SPD on the mountain bike, SPD SL on the road bike - and they've both got their own advantage: the SPD system is more flexible and allows for shoes to be easily released, whereas the Shimano SPD SL pedals / shoes (as well as other roadie systems) definitely 'feel' faster but can be slightly more awkward to release! I'm not convinced myself, but I've heard that the roadie pedals (ie, SPD SL, Look Keo, etc...) are lighter than the MTB pedals (as they've got a one-sided design) which constitutes in itself a good 'selling" point.

I think that it really depends on how you ride - if you're likely to take breaks regularly (when touring for instance), then go for SPDs otherwise roadie systems might be more suitable for you. Another thing to bear in mind, in my experience, the SPD cleats last much longer than the SPD SL's, which I"ve had to replace about twice as frequently!

But why would the size of the pedals contact patch make any difference? You push down with say 100kgs worth of pressure, 99kgs makes it through the shoes into the pedals regardless of the size of the pedal contact patch. The lbs per square inch is different obviously and may affect comfort (hotspots etc) but the total force making the pedal head groundwards is the same - unless the pedals are somehow more efficient.

Weight sounds plausible but Ti eggbeaters for example weigh sod-all...

Wappygixer

The big plus for road pedals is float.SPD's in my experience only have a bit of movement which is mostly dueto wear.
At least with most road pedals you can decide or even adjust your float.
I do ride SPD's in winter though as I ride in Shimano Goretex boots which I also share with my mountain bike.

fluff.

I think the `larger contact point more efficient transfer of power' is a bit of old wives tale too, if you have stiff enough shoes it won't make any difference, apart from a mental one.

dombo6

fluff. wrote:

I think the `larger contact point more efficient transfer of power' is a bit of old wives tale too, if you have stiff enough shoes it won't make any difference, apart from a mental one.

Second that. Utter nonsense.

Monty Dog

I use both SPDs and Time road pedals - road pedals have both the advantage of a big contact area, making engagement more positive, better 'free float' and a closer spindle distance which feel more natural. On the other hand, because of the small clamping distance, SPDs have a tendency to 'rock' side to side and never feel quite as secure - I have 'pulled' my foot from SPDs but it never happens with road pedals IME. For convenience e.g. commuting or winter riding, I use SPDs, but when it comes to performance, I'd choose road pedals - the lighter weight makes a big difference too - the weight of a cleated rubber sole is quite significant.

jamieh5463

The whole 'power transfer' issue is so marginal i wouldnt let that influence your choice, with mtb spd pedals and road spd pedals if you find two the same price the road ones will most likely be lighter as they do not need to be made as strong as mtb pedals, and plus mtb spds are double sided (which adds weight), i use mtb spds on my road bike with the tension adjustment quite high, this is because i use mtb ones on all my other bike so it is easier for me to stick with what i know.

zenzinnia

I think road pedals do have a greater area of contact and they also tend to be coupled with much stiffer soles. This should give a slightly better power transfer as more of your effort is going into moving the crank round rather than bending the sole around the pedal. It might not be much of an advantage but just think of how many times you push down on that pedal in a ride and it soon mounts up. Road pedals can also be pulled on the 'up stroke' much more than SPDs which tend to release more easily.

maddog 2

it's all about ergonomics, rather than efficiency, in my opinion.

roadie pedals and spuds are different in relation to:

- pedal weight (although there's not that much in it these days)

- shoe weight (roadie shoes = a bit less, generally)

- shoe stiffness (a bit of a myth, as you can get plenty of carbon-soled MTB shoes)

- float characteristics (depends what you prefer)

- secure-ness (some prefer roadie, some don't like it)

- walking about, obviously

- ease of use (spuds slightly easier to clip into, and double sided in most cases)

- and of course, culture. Many tend to use what their mates use, or what they've used in the past eg. MTBers sticking with spuds.

pay yer money, make yer choice

Dunedin397

I'm sure there was an article, or a response to a letter, that stated there's no difference in power transfer between road pedals, ie SPD-SL, Look, etc, and mtb pedal, ie SPD, etc, it's down to the shoe.

There may be a perceived difference because road pedals are larger, but I would expect it's more down to the type of shoe used. I use SPD-SL on my road bike and SPD on my commute and mtb bike but I do use road shoes on the commute bike on the good weather days.

Most mtb or touring shoes tend to be less stiff than road shoes, apart from the top end mtb racing shoes, so I suspect the perception stems from there.

Dunedin

StrangelyBrown

I use MTB shoes/pedals on the road (C. Bros Quattro) and can't say I've ever noticed my shoes wobbling about, being lose or feeling anything other than connected to the pedals. If yours are doing this then I suggest they are worn, or you are pissed.

I've read that the principle gains from road pedals are because the foot is closer to the pedal axis (as a road shoe/pedal has a lower profile than an MTB equivalent), and this is slightly more efficient. It's the only thing I've heard that sounds feasible.

Although I suspect that for the vast majority of us it's a difference we will never notice. And I'm already so fast that nothing could make a difference.

jamieh5463

I use road shoes with MTB pedals, and i think if any1 has the better power transfer it's probable mtb ones because they are solid metal and i can't see how that has more flex in it than plastic ones!?

jam1e

Well spds it is then (it was going to be anyway though), makes you wonder how many other things are perceived to be true which are just old wives tales based on outdated equipment...

My initial thoughts were that if a roadie clipless was lighter, stiffer, had better bearings and less float (less wasted energy if the foot can't move about) than a mtb pedal, it may be ever so slightly more efficient. However the efficiency benefits would prob be balanced out by one "clipless moment" every few thousand miles!

Cheers guys

FSR_XC

I don't think the shoe arguement stands up much nowadays.

Most Shimano, Specialized etc al shoes are the same - MTB or Road - other than the fixings.

One thing that I learned over the last few weeks is that when your mtb cleats wear, they can be 'pulled' out of the pedal when putting a lot of effort in. I've had a couple of incidents where I've literally kicked my foot forwards because I pulled my foot out on the up stroke.

Is this the same with road cleats?

fluff.

The SPD-SL (road) pedals I used with worn cleats gave a less positive engangement, to the point where I stood on the pedal thinking it was enganged and found it wasn't and consequently nearly impaled myself on the crossbar.

El Gordo

Dunedin397 wrote:

I'm sure there was an article, or a response to a letter, that stated there's no difference in power transfer between road pedals, ie SPD-SL, Look, etc, and mtb pedal, ie SPD, etc, it's down to the shoe.

There may be a perceived difference because road pedals are larger, but I would expect it's more down to the type of shoe used. I use SPD-SL on my road bike and SPD on my commute and mtb bike but I do use road shoes on the commute bike on the good weather days.

I think that's true but for a given stiffness of shoe you'll get less flex with a big contact area versus a small one hence road systems are more efficient. It's not a big difference admittedly, but it all helps.

The Looks on my road bike definitely feel much more direct than the SPDs on my other bikes but they're rubbish for walking in which is why SPDs are used for commuting, touring and MTB'ing.

Gav888

There must be some performance advantage for SPD-SL over SPD otherwise all the professional racers would use SPD wouldn't they?

mididoctors

if you really putting the hammer down and throwing a load angles mtb spds can IME become disengaged... hard honking while climbing...

its happened to me...

for general riding touring etc mtb pedals are my choice.. i wouldn't race on them thou the difference is slight especially if using carbon soled mtb shoes

mididoctors

FSR_XC wrote:

I don't think the shoe arguement stands up much nowadays.

Most Shimano, Specialized etc al shoes are the same - MTB or Road - other than the fixings.

One thing that I learned over the last few weeks is that when your mtb cleats wear, they can be 'pulled' out of the pedal when putting a lot of effort in. I've had a couple of incidents where I've literally kicked my foot forwards because I pulled my foot out on the up stroke.

Is this the same with road cleats?

less so.. I have had this problem with mtb spuds on a road bike... however i still use them

jam1e

El Gordo wrote:

Dunedin397 wrote:

I'm sure there was an article, or a response to a letter, that stated there's no difference in power transfer between road pedals, ie SPD-SL, Look, etc, and mtb pedal, ie SPD, etc, it's down to the shoe.

There may be a perceived difference because road pedals are larger, but I would expect it's more down to the type of shoe used. I use SPD-SL on my road bike and SPD on my commute and mtb bike but I do use road shoes on the commute bike on the good weather days.

I think that's true but for a given stiffness of shoe you'll get less flex with a big contact area versus a small one hence road systems are more efficient. It's not a big difference admittedly, but it all helps..

Thats the first real advantage to the roadie design I've heard which sounds plausible. Whether this probably miniscule increase in the efficiency of the force transfer process (for want of a better term) is worth the disadvantages is, in my eyes, up for debate!

As for the fact that pro riders etc use them - you'd think that they'd use everything possible to get an advantage but it could be one of those situations where the build of the roadie pedal has been improved over time but no-one has really investigated if that actual concept of pedals is the best. A bit like the Boardman lotus bike - nobody built one (until they did, obviously ) because it wasn't just an update of a "normal" bike design, it was an almost entirely new design - somebody had to come in with a blank sheet of paper. Similar to Obrees riding position experiments - more efficient (in some cases) but so dissimilar they got banned.

Still don't know why this particular element of bike componentry has made me think to this level though...

nickwill

Road pedals are more comfortable to me. Admittedly its a long time since I wore SPDs but I found that the small contact area became very uncomfortable after 100 miles.

eh

Big advantages of road pedals for me are:

1) that they are more comfy when you are on the bike for hours on end.

2) Better cornering clearance.

This point makes no sense at all:

However the efficiency benefits would prob be balanced out by one "clipless moment" every few thousand miles!

A "clipless moment" has everything to do with your brain being thick and slow, nothing to do with the pedal system. Weirdly I think "clipless moments" were even more prevelant back in the days of clips and straps but there we go, I can't imagine "attached to the pedal moments" is going to take off :!:

Giant Phil

Use SPDs and they are fine. It is true that you can 'yank' them out, but I have only had this twice, and compared to the ease of walking with SPDs, and the little ware they sustain, I will stick with them.

Phil

nickwill

eh wrote:

Big advantages of road pedals for me are:

1) that they are more comfy when you are on the bike for hours on end.

2) Better cornering clearance.

This point makes no sense at all:

However the efficiency benefits would prob be balanced out by one "clipless moment" every few thousand miles!

A "clipless moment" has everything to do with your brain being thick and slow, nothing to do with the pedal system. Weirdly I think "clipless moments" were even more prevelant back in the days of clips and straps but there we go, I can't imagine "attached to the pedal moments" is going to take off :!:

I fell off on ice on Sunday. My bike went one way, and I went the other. If i had been using toeclips. My bike and I would have hit the ground together, and I might have been looking at far more serious injuries than a bruised thigh!
I ride between 5000 and 6000 miles per year, and my last clipless moment was about 6 years ago during my second week using clipless pedals.

jam1e

By "clipless moment" I didn't just mean a fall etc - I was also refering to the amount of people who have said that it's more difficult to clip in and out of a roadie clipless pedal. How far do you have to pedal before the alleged "increased efficiency" of the design makes up the time you lost clipping into them ?

As for cornering clearance - my mtb spds have a lower crank arm to edge of pedal distance (by about 1cm) but are marginally deeper (2-3mm) so I doubt this is an actual benefit, but I see how the wider platform might feel better through the corners.

Pretty much seems to be personal preference and the fact that it's the correct style of pedal for a road bike - However in the interests of science, personal interest, open mindedness and my development as a road cyclist I'm off to order myself some roadie spds...Any recommndations? (Cheapish ones in case I prefer my mtbing ones )

Just occured to me though - if you can have more flexible soles with roadie pedals due to the pressure being better distributed it seems a bit odd that tourers etc who would normally wear flexier soled shoes seem to be the ones most likely to use mtb spds...