clipless or not?

SWC123

I'm sure this is a topic that has been covered in detail before but I couldn't see it anywhere on the forum so sorry in advance.
I am looking to start doing some more serious mountain biking (thinking of going to Wales for a weekend soon) and am wondering what to do about my pedals. I currently use SPDs on both my road and my mountain bike and have done for years so am completely used to using them. The off-roading I've done previously has been mainly paths in forests etc and so I haven't had too many SPD moments. But now I'm planning on doing some more challenging stuff I'm wondering whether I should switch to flat pedals, or maybe those cage ones with SPDs that you can also stand on? At least at first? What do you guys do and what do you recommend?

xtreem

Buy flats and see how they feel. For £20 you can buy decent ones.
And then if you don't like them sell it.

But for more serious mtb-ing I would recomend flats, because many times my foot saved
me from falling.

spongtastic

If you're that used to SPD's carry on using them.

I cahnged from flats about 2 years ago and there's no way I'd be able to go through the mud or climb like I do on flats.

ellieb

You'll get conflicting advice from both sides.
Personally I use spds on the road, but I don't have the bottle to use them off road on technical stuff. You have to ask yourself can you imagine a scenario where you might want to dab a foot but are clipped in. Some people manage this with no worries... I found it made me bottle it & I got off and pushed when I had spuds. With flats I am far more likely to give it a go without fear of falling off in a cliplless moment.

sniper68

SPDS without a doubt.I just can't ride flats.On the really tecnical stuff i feel more secure clipped in,but a lot of people feel the opposite.If you're comfortable using them anyway you should be ok

Banned!

flats on techy stuff. you cant hop on spuds and you cant lift a foot off to balance in a split second if you need too (and you will). besides that, you will need to constantly change position on the rooty/rocky stuff and you cant do that with spuds

plus walking in cleats is impossible in the slippery mud..

BlackSpur

Jesus_Christ wrote:

you cant hop on spuds

I'm sorry but that's rubbish.

Banned!

oh, dont apologise. its quite all right.

Ok, you can hop, but when you hit a really rough and rooty dh section you might need to hop and jump quite a lot and thats not really feasible with spds on.

Whytepeak

besides that, you will need to constantly change position on the rooty/rocky stuff and you cant do that with spuds

Thats only because your feet slip when using flats

xtreem

[b]Whytepeak[/b] wrote:

Thats only because your feet slip when using flats.

That would happen more on a hardtail and less on a fullsuser.
And when it happens that, the seat enters the stage.

-liam-

Jesus_Christ wrote:

oh, dont apologise. its quite all right.

Ok, you can hop, but when you hit a really rough and rooty dh section you might need to hop and jump quite a lot and thats not really feasible with spds on.

I'm sorry but that is still rubbish.

The main problem people have when they run with spd's is that they try to have them adjusted so tight that their feet feel completely locked to the pedals, and here's a surprise, when they need to get their feet out in a panic, it doesn't happen so they lose confidence straight away.

Plenty of slack and a bit of practice and they are unclipped as fast as you can get your feet off flat pedals.....imo

stumpyjon

Jesus_Christ wrote:

flats on techy stuff.

- personal preference, I prefer SPDs on most techy stuff

you cant hop on spuds

- can't comment, I can't hop very easily either way.

and you cant lift a foot off to balance in a split second if you need too (and you will).

- not true, means you haven't adjusted the spring tension correctly / haven't practiced enough. I very rarely have problems clipping out, seems to happen automatically.

besides that, you will need to constantly change position on the rooty/rocky stuff and you cant do that with spuds

- don't need to if you've set the cleat position up properly, that's the point they hold the ball of your foot in the optimum position.

plus walking in cleats is impossible in the slippery mud..

- depends on the shoes, Shimano MW02 winter boots have deep treads that recess the cleat and give good grip in the mud.

SPDs are a personal preference and all the arguments for aren't going to convince someone who prefers flats (as the OP said we've had that discussion many times). If you already ride with SPDs I'd try the more techy stuff with them too. I wouldn't advise going to the caged SPDs personally, they clog with mud more easily and con sometimes make clipping in more difficult and definitely avoid the ones with the cleat interface on one side and a cage on the other, worst of both worlds IMHO.

Despite being a life long SPD fan I will admit to buying some flats recently for use on a particularly tricky black run local to me. The SPDs let me down, not because I couldn't unclip but more to the point I couldn't clip back in and maintain momentum so stopped every 2 ft.

Whytepeak

I've ridden clipless on my roadbike, butwould not on my mtb, too much fun with flats, like to take my inside foot of the pedal on greasy corners with a semi slick tyre out back

Bluestoesonnose

I dont feel safe if I'm not in my SPuD's, I've done most of the trails in Wales over the past few years with no issues on a hard tail bike, if you're happy in SPuD's then try them, take a pair of flats if your not too sure, but I couldn't ride a bike very far with only flats on it.

toasty

SPDs everywhere for me, even going off drops and over jumps now. Much like it's quite scary using them for the first time, flats can be equally scary when you're used to being clipped in.

Love the feeling of floating over really rough stuff without having to clench my feet onto the pedals to stop them bouncing off. As for:

But for more serious mtb-ing I would recomend flats, because many times my foot saved
me from falling.

SPDs get used for everything,the vast majority of XC and marathon racers will be clipped in along with a decent amount of DHers.

The only time I don't feel safe is when I'm moving veeery slowly, on a techy northshore or something. How often does your average trail rider wave his leg around in the air anyway? If you want to use it to corner you still can, just unclip before the corner.

switchback18

I switched from SPDs to flats about 3 years ago - will never go back! If you try flats, make sure you use decent shoes like 5-10s though. I've not found anything rough enough to be a problem not clipped in. If your technique is causing you feet slippage on flats, you're also at risk of crashing with SPDs - good technique works with either style, suspect technique causes problems with either style. Think about it, you can bunnyhop on flats everytime without losing the pedals, so why should you lose them any other time?
Reason I use flats though, is that if you're pushing it a bit, or a lot, you avoid the 'not being able to unclip in a crash' situation. I've met very few who can unclip in time in a real sudden emergency. Many who say it's easy don't ride anything that extreme!

When it comes down to it, SPDs big advantage is efficiency, flats are better for learning tech stuff, if you do it right.

Reason DH racers do OK on SPDs is that obviously they aren't planning to make any mistakes on a run, they are hoping to have the run sussed, so they're not planning to get into a situation where they'll need to unclip! The ones that use flats are often using a foot out cornering style.

I found with all 3 sets of spuds I had (all different) that if I loosened the release mech enough to give a comfortable & quick release, they would unclip themselves occasionally on their own in rough stuff!

teacherman

I made the switch from SPD's to flats. I persevered for a couple of months and on shorter/more technical rides I liked them.

However, really pushing the pace around DalbyI got horrible pains in my hip. Pushed it again next ride out and got the same pain.

Went back to SPD's and it hasn't happened since! A different pedallng action might be to blame. It's a shame 'cos the white V8's looked pimpy

stumpyjon

switchback18 wrote:

IMany who say it's easy don't ride anything that extreme!!

I wouldn't say I was an extreme rider but have fallen off enough times, never had a problem unclipping in that micro second before hitting the floor.

Thermo1

Why not buy a cheap set of flats and a pedal spanner and take them with you on a few rides in a backpack? That way you could change pedals mid-ride and even try sections in both modes to see which you prefer.

One thing I have read about flats is that 510 shoes seem to be mandatory.

Personally I use SPDs for the connected feeling I get with the bike.

Northwind

Don't believe the hype on 5 10s, all they give you is more grip than you need. My vans give less grip, but still more than I need, so the only difference is the lower quality of the 5 10s shoe, and the higher price.

Anyway... You seem comfortable with SPDs, most of the arguments against them just come down to that, and the risk of not unclipping quite fast enough if, some time, you really have to get it spot on. Neither type of pedal is better or worse overall, you just need to go with the one that suits you, and it seems like you've made that decision long ago.

sniper68

switchback18 wrote:

. Many who say it's easy don't ride anything that extreme!

When it comes down to it, SPDs big advantage is efficiency, flats are better for learning tech stuff, if you do it right.

I ride Mainly natural technical stuff and ride clipped in.In all the crashes i've had i've unclipped without thinking about it.It just becomes second nature after a while.I use Crank Bros pedals though,SPDs IMO clog up/freeze and unclipping is harder then with eggbeaters.
Some people can ride with spds,some can't.

llamafarmer

I have a set of M324s

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Shimano_M324_Combination_Pedals/4000000039/

Which I'm thinking of teaming with some MP66 shoes

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Shimano_MP66W_Cycling_Shoes/5360038673/

Reason being, I love my SPDs, but on the occasional really tricky, steep descent I feel uncomfortable being clipped in and not being able to put a foot down. I'm thinking this might be a good compromise....

sniper68

I've started to use these:-
LINKY
Give a bit of grip if you have to "dab"then restart on a techy climb 8)Also confidence if you want to unclip on techy DH stuff.

Bikerbaboon

I made the switch back from spd to flats and i pushed my self to learn how to lift the back on flats and can now bunny hop well enough. How to hold traction over the rough rooty sections.
Now 4 months on i have moved back to spd, The reason is It just feels better I would say its kinda like sandwedge fillings some like ham some like cheese and some like both dependant on the day. I would also be silly to try to have a debate about the better of the 2. Also you dont know if you are a ham or a cheese till you have tryed them both.


Yes it is lunch time and yes i do have a ham sandwedge.

sarah123

Ok thanks guys! Seems like opinion is fairly evenly split. I've still got the flats that my bike came with so I'll probably switch them back and have a go with them and see which I prefer. The issue I have had is that sometimes when doing something a bit tricky - and particularly something slow like going through a very muddy patch - I haven't felt confident clipped in. Will give it a go with the flats anyhow and see what happens. Thanks

llamafarmer

sarah123 wrote:

Ok thanks guys! Seems like opinion is fairly evenly split. I've still got the flats that my bike came with so I'll probably switch them back and have a go with them and see which I prefer. The issue I have had is that sometimes when doing something a bit tricky - and particularly something slow like going through a very muddy patch - I haven't felt confident clipped in. Will give it a go with the flats anyhow and see what happens. Thanks

I like my SPDs in the gloopy mud because they make it easier to apply the power really smoothly and not spin the rear wheel out. Obviously not so good when you get stuck, but falling off at that speed is pretty painless

jrab

Interesting debate this, I have the same dilemma coming from road bikes with SPDs. Just starting to get into MTBing, I've been looking at some beginners skills courses, and they all say that bikes used on the course should be fitted with flatties and specifically NOT SPDs. Any suggestions as to why this is? I'm guessing it's better to learn good technique on flatties? If so, what aspects?

Having been out a few times with SPDs with no real issues (just a couple of times tricky clipping in and once clipping out due to mud in cleats & pedals (VERY muddy ride that one though), I tried flatties at the weekend and couldn't really get on with them, found my feet sliding to ends of pedals and didn't feel secure when pedalling.

Richard.

pete higham

i have had my spds 2 weeks and i couldnt give them up now

ive not long got into mtbing but come from a moto x background so i love the feeling of being attached to the bike especially when jumping! plus i can ride so much quicker too, i noticed it on my very first ride with them

pete higham

JRAB wrote:

Interesting debate this, I have the same dilemma coming from road bikes with SPDs. Just starting to get into MTBing, I've been looking at some beginners skills courses, and they all say that bikes used on the course should be fitted with flatties and specifically NOT SPDs. Any suggestions as to why this is? I'm guessing it's better to learn good technique on flatties? If so, what aspects?


Richard.

i would say it is probably because they are for beginners!?

what kind of a beginner are these aimed at? i suppose if it is one of your first times off road then people will panic in spds when the back/front end slides out!

more accidents/higher insurance

jrab

Yeah, except the comment about fitting flat pedals for their courses also seems to apply to the advanced courses too.

I'm thinking they ask this maybe because clipless pedals may mask poor technique and it's easier to teach correct technique with flats? ie no problem using SPDs once you've learned the correct techniques but a bad idea to start with?

Being a complete (MTB) novice I'm just curious as to what sort of manouvers this would apply to - this is coming from a road background where it's all about efficient power transmission, smoothness and consistent cadence.

Richard.

LordBanks

The trick is is not to think about being clipped in, if you get into a sticky situation and your first thought is 'i need to clip out' you'll most probably crash still clipped in.

When riding flats and you're gonna bail, you don't think 'i need to put my foot down', its a natural instinct, same with SPDs, you've just got to get used to them so that it becomes instinct, thats what a lot of people get put of by, it does take a while until you stop thinking about you're pedals when riding.

SPDs all the way.