Stabbing (tv programme)

Tranced

I have my ideas, but what should be done in cases like this. A point needs to be made that this behavious is utterly unacceptable in society.... no point in blaming society in general for not giving the criminal help before hand etc etc.
If you want to be part of society, play within the rules.

"The suspect in a gruesome knife attack at a …. creche last week was accused on Monday of the "abominable" murder of an elderly lady and planning attacks on other nurseries. Three days after the deaths of two babies and a day-care worker, prosecutor …. said that 20-year-old unemployed man …. was probably also the murderer of a former farmwoman earlier this month. "The author of the deeds is also the author of an abominable crime committed against a 73-year-old woman on January 16," …. told journalists.

A 14-year-old boy was arrested on Monday for allegedly raping his two-year-old stepsister. "When she asked him what had happened to her child, the teenager allegedly told his stepmother that he raped her in revenge." The teenager was apparently angry at his stepmother because she had accused him of stealing money from the house.

Two police officers were shot and wounded while on a Sunday morning routine patrol. "They spotted two suspicious-looking males in …. Street at 02:45 and when they approached, the two suspects opened fire," he said. The female reservist was shot in the head while the constable was shot in his head and chest. "The suspects then disarmed both members and fled with the police patrol vehicle, taking the two 9mm firearms with," he said.

A man has told how he held his friend's hand for 45 minutes while waiting for the police to arrive, after the friend was shot while helping him with his broken down car. While …. was lying under the car to try and find the problem, he heard …. call out for help, followed by the sound of a shot.

… found a dead woman tied to a tree… the woman was raped and then strangled to death.

A 19-year-old man was arrested for burning his girlfriend, 16, to death. An argument started between the two teenagers after the girl received a call on her mobile from a private number. He beat her up with fists until she collapsed. "He then doused his girlfriend with petrol and set her alight.

man murdered his estranged wife after becoming "enraged" when she changed her marital status on Facebook to "single",.... was found guilty of stabbing 26-year-old ... to death.....in her bedroom and subjected her to a frenzied and brutal attack with a knife and then attempted to take his own life."

I don't have the answers, just my opinions.

spen666

Tranced wrote:

I have my ideas, but what should be done in cases like this. A point needs to be made that this behavious is utterly unacceptable in society....

I agree with you on this part

no point in blaming society in general for not giving the criminal help before hand etc etc.
If you want to be part of society, play within the rules.

....

I don't totally agree with the latter part- especially with youngsters- if they have not been taught the rules, can you expect them to play by the rules

don key

If everyone takes them on they will all retire very quickly, last night at 12:30 a.m. I was the only person at the lane that connects Shaftsbury avenue with the Haymarket. A Nepalese army vet was being mugged heavy handedly by three 30 year olds and he shouted to me to get them, I shouted which one but he didn't answer quick enough, I wanted the one with the money, due to their speed , the pillar and my lethargy they got away, I gave full on chase with "muggers" and " police" as well as some well aimed insults spewing forth , I was to full and badly dressed to catch any of the three, all of whom split up on que, when the Muggee caught up to me with the CPSOs he had got the wallet back as they had thrown it away on being challenged by my" which one" question, that wasn't my intention but a great result as the £400 was still in there along with loads of other stuff. Take them on and they will all go down, I suspect we may have a few retirements after last night.


Nobody helped me by the way, my success rate is 100 per cent five mugging stopped and no profit for the muggers, potential muggings are just that so are not included.

I also had four Portugese muggers on mopeds trying to do me in Faro 12 years ago just outside the airport at 3 am and I took a lift on the bonnet of the first car to arrive, wuggers are mankers, last nights beefiest one had on him a big white jacket with a four inch black stripe from collar to assos, it was like a light house.

Frank the tank

spen666 wrote:

Tranced wrote:

.....
And yes, people are wrongly convicted. It has happened. But where there is ANY doubt, the sentence should reflect that too. That is such a blatantly obvious point I didn’t think it even needed mentioning.…

.....

To be convicted, a jury has to be "sure as to be certain" that accused is guilty or put another way- beyond all reasonable doubt.

Here in a 2 second internet search is a list of a few of those wrongly convicted and cleared later


Sheila Bowler
4 years
Carol Hanson
27 years
Peter Fell
17 years
Birmingham Six
16 years
M25 Three
10 years
Ryan James
3 years
Bridgewater Four
17 years
Judith Ward
18 years


Danny McNamee
11 years
Guildford Four
15 years
Patrick Nicholls
23 years
Derek Bentley
Hanged in 1953
Stefan Kiszko
16 years

Robert Haughton
6 years
Ashley King
14 years
Trevor Campbell
14 years
Kevin Callan
4 years



Derek Treadaway
9 years
Johnny Kamara
20 years
Keith Twitchell
12 years
George Long
16 years

Mary Druhan
10 years
Andrew Evans
25 years
Jonathan Jones
2 1/2 years
Andrew Smith
22 years



Gurnos Three
3-4 years
Eddie Browning
6 years
Maguire Seven
10 years
John Roberts
15 years

George Lewis
5 years
Patricia Bass
3 years
Cardiff Newsagent
Three
11 years
Mark Cleary
9 years
Iain Hay Gordon
7 years
Trevor McCalla
18 mths + remand
Roy Burnett
15 years
Timothy Evans
Hanged in 1950
Cardiff Three
4 years
John McGranaghan
10 years
Richard Karling
6 years
Alexander Hall
11 years
James Hanratty
Hanged in 1962
Colin Wallace
6 years
Wayne & Paul
Darvell
7 years
Hussein Mattan
Hanged in 1952


Terry Pinfold / Harry Mackenney
22-year wait for redemption
Christopher Hagans / John Wilson
Spent nine years in prison as a consequence of wrongdoing by police officers
Gary Mills / Tony Poole
Served 14 years before convictions overturned
Mark Dallagher
Served 7 years before charges formally dropped following re-trial
Angela Cannings
Served nearly 2 years before convictions quashed
Trevor Wickens
Incarcerated for thirteen and a half years before conviction declared unsafe
George Kelly
Hanged in 1950
Reg Dudley / Bob Maynard
Both served around twenty-five years before being released and later saw their convictions quashed
Michael McMahon / David Cooper
Both men served 10 years in prison before being released; sadly neither lived to see his name cleared.
Michael Shirley
Spent 16 years in prison for a crime the court of appeal admitted he could not have committed.
Sally Clark
Conviction quashed after 3 years in jail.
Erkin Guney
Conviction quashed after 7 years in jail.
Michael Lawson / Basil Rigby-Williams
The two men spent three years in prison after being convicted of sexual abuse - crimes it later transpired had never happened.
Hasham Shah
Spent 18 months in prison. Found guilty of committing a gay sex attack although he (a hererosexual) had been attacked at knifepoint by his supposed victim.
Robert Brown
Conviction quashed after 25 years in jail.
Frank Johnson
Conviction quashed after 26 years in jail.
Dudley Higgins
Conviction quashed on appeal.
Patrick Irvine
Conviction quashed after serving 11 years and 9 years after his release on licence.
John Brannan/Bernard Murphy
Convictions quashed after ten years.
Stephen Downing
Spent 27 years (!) in prison before his conviction was finally quashed.
Roger Beardmore
Conviction quashed three years after false rape accusations.
Donald Pendleton
Conviction quashed by the law lords after 15 years.
Alex Allan
Conviction quashed after student lawyers took up his case.
John Hemphill
Conviction quashed by the Scottish court of appeal after he had served six years.
Joseph Otoo
Aged 17 when convicted, Joseph Otoo served three years of a 7-year sentence before his conviction was quashed.
Kevin Martin, Michael Brown, Anthony Taylor
Cleared by the Court of Appeal 5 years into a ten-year sentence for armed robbery after being convicted on the basis of evidence planted by corrupt police officers.
Serena Kayretli
Cleared by the Court of Appeal after spending one and a half years in prison.
Mohammed Yusef Patel
Cleared by the Court of Appeal 13 years after serving 28 months of a 4-year sentence.
James Reith
Two years for "rape".
Michelle & Lisa Taylor
Convictions quashed following "sensationalist" reporting.
John Woodruff and William Hickson
Served two years in prison after having a gun "planted" on them by corrupt police officers.
John McLoughlin
Cleared by the Court of Appeal almost 10 years after being convicted of sex offences.
Gary Shaffi, David Noble, Craig Lane, Michael Beadle
Acquitted on appeal of the murder, nearly three years earlier, of a pensioner. Michael Beadle died while serving his life sentence.
Philip English
Philip English, whose conviction for the murder of Sergeant Bill Forth in Gateshead was later overturned by the Court of Appeal. Mr English was 100 yards away in handcuffs when a police officer was stabbed by Paul Weddle, but he was sentenced to life imprisonment under the law of 'joint enterprise'.
George McPhee

Cleared after serving 16 years for murder



Bentley, Evans, Hanratty, Mattan & Kelly were actually executed but were not guilty of the crimes they were accused of and have been cleared in a court of law since then.

What do you say to all these people's familes- whooops mistakes happen?

Spen666, your objection to the death penalty seems to be based purely on innocent people being executed by the authorities, rather than any real moral issue.

If it's just about the deaths of the innocent which is the issue,I would venture that the government "kill" fewer innocent people than the thugs in society currently are; therefore fewer innocent people are killed.

That's if it's just a figures game. Of course I, like you wouldn't wish to see any innocent people executed, BTW the time line over which your list was compiled how big of list would a list of the rightly convicted be. I would suggest the percentage of wrongful convictions is %age wise realatively small.

spen666

Frank the tank wrote:

....

Spen666, your objection to the death penalty seems to be based purely on innocent people being executed by the authorities, rather than any real moral issue.

When have I said I have no moral issues re the death penalty? I don't think I has used the word moral have I?

Is not the killing of innocent people by the state somewhat immoral?

If it's just about the deaths of the innocent which is the issue,I would venture that the government "kill" fewer innocent people than the thugs in society currently are; therefore fewer innocent people are killed.

Thats all right then- those innocent people killed by the state will die happy as will their families

That's if it's just a figures game. Of course I, like you wouldn't wish to see any innocent people executed, BTW the time line over which your list was compiled how big of list would a list of the rightly convicted be. I would suggest the percentage of wrongful convictions is %age wise realatively small.

The % of wrongful convictions in the criminal justice sysstem is frightingly high. However most people are either not imprisonerd or are freed before any appeal is heard and it is not worth their continuing protestations of innocence.

I have been involved in cases myself where I know innocent people have been convicted ( not of capital offences obviously)

heftyrider

Spen, I agree the thought of innocennt people being wrongly convicted never mind executed is abhorrent.

On the assumtion that the current system does not work as well as society would like, what would your suggestion be to prevent previously convicted offenders re-offending?

spen666

heftyrider wrote:

Spen, I agree the thought of innocennt people being wrongly convicted never mind executed is abhorrent.

On the assumtion that the current system does not work as well as society would like, what would your suggestion be to prevent previously convicted offenders re-offending?

That is a different debate to the death penalty one- I'm quite happy to debate that, but I do think it should be in a different thread.


Can I suggest you start a new thread re how to stop repeat offending. I will post on it when I get home later this evening - it is a complex subject with no simple ansers - except this - if we legalized everything, then there will be no crime, so no repeat offenders.
I'm not saying it would be a world I'd like to live in though

Frank the tank

I must reiterate I too am against the execution of the innocent (crikey what sort of person do you think I am) but I am in favour of both corporal and capital punishment. Spen666, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one my owd. But debating is what forums are all about, be dead boring if we all agreed.

One thing I am sure of though is we'd all like to live in a more peaceful world.

Tranced

"A 26-year-old man was stabbed to death as he travelled to hospital with his young daughter to visit his wife who had just given birth to a boy.
He became involved in an argument with a second man and died "in front of his daughter's eyes" in Croydon, south London, police said.
A 22-year-old man was arrested and is in custody at a south London police station. "
"The victim's three year-old daughter was with him when he was attacked, though fortunately she wasn't physically injured."
A family devastated. Could have been anyone of your brother, son, father. A 3 yr old watching her Daddy stabbed to death in the street.
Oh, I’m not surprised or shocked. I’ve seen it happen in front of me all too often. But here, in the UK…. the rate at which this is increasingly happening…..
There can not possibly be any merciful feelings towards the stabber. He's out there with a knife and MUST know full well that he shouldn't have one on him in the first place.
Although I believe there are very valid reasons to carry a knife other than protection/ malicious intent, the rules in UK & in particular London are clear. Don’t. Can’t be simpler.
I fear, in years to come, despite/ due to good intentions, this is going to happen more & more…

Frank the tank

Tranced wrote:

"A 26-year-old man was stabbed to death as he travelled to hospital with his young daughter to visit his wife who had just given birth to a boy.
He became involved in an argument with a second man and died "in front of his daughter's eyes" in Croydon, south London, police said.
A 22-year-old man was arrested and is in custody at a south London police station. "
"The victim's three year-old daughter was with him when he was attacked, though fortunately she wasn't physically injured."
A family devastated. Could have been anyone of your brother, son, father. A 3 yr old watching her Daddy stabbed to death in the street.
Oh, I’m not surprised or shocked. I’ve seen it happen in front of me all too often. But here, in the UK…. the rate at which this is increasingly happening…..
There can not possibly be any merciful feelings towards the stabber. He's out there with a knife and MUST know full well that he shouldn't have one on him in the first place.
Although I believe there are very valid reasons to carry a knife other than protection/ malicious intent, the rules in UK & in particular London are clear. Don’t. Can’t be simpler.
I fear, in years to come, despite/ due to good intentions, this is going to happen more & more…

Best not hang the culprit, incase we get the wrong bloke.