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expensive locked out carbonfibre on slicks v £1000 road bik

scottgeniusltd2005scottgeniusltd2005 Posts: 575
edited February 2009 in Commuting chat
hi guys,

starting to commute a 13mile there 13mile back trip to work on 2nd feb. i have a scott genius lts 2005, its a fantastic xc machine and i have used it for leisure riding on the mary townley loop for 3 yrs now, my question is, would i gain any massive advantages on a road bike of about £1000 i can get on c2w scheme over my slicked up locked out bike? the weights on paper are very similar but geometry is totally different (plus i can put mudguards on a road bike). there is one huge 1 mile climb to work, the rest is pretty much undulating country rd. if not then i could use the c2s for buying a trailer and endura waterproof kit.

cheers

ps i'm a currently a 100kg bloke but this will drop off easily as it does every summer so i would be about 15 stone maybe 14 if i tried, i don't know if weight makes a difference to your advice.

cheers again
Cotic Soul rider.

Posts

  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I believe that a bike must be part of the stuff you buy with the scheme.
  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,600
    The road bike will be faster, though not by such a huge margin over a Genius than if you were upgrading from a Halfords special. Mudguards are a fantastic help too, as well as the ability to take panniers.

    I'd go for the road bike (speaking as someone with 3 road bikes and 2 mountain bikes!)
  • thanx, i wasn't sure and didn't want to waste £5 to £600 ( after savings)on an average bike that wasn't as good to ride, it's a long long time since i had a road bike, but when i go out on tar with the genius i always have it locked out and the rc41 fighters pushed all the way to the bottom and locked out as it adds 2 mph to my average speed which is currently 11 to 11.5 mph on tar, staying inside my 70% mhr. (don't want to get that over training syndrome which i have had in the past when commuting and isn't much fun and does take a long time to recover when commuting)

    cheers
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • don_dondon_don Posts: 1,007
    Can't help thinking you'ld get fed up with the position on the mtb after a few miles on the road, since you can't quite move your hands around on the bars as much and you'll be a bit more upright.

    Not to mention the idea of leaving a (presumably £5k's worth) mtb locked up at work, unless you can bring it into the office and leave it right next to your desk!!

    Plus, if you've not owned a road-bike before, it could open up a whole new world of cycling opportunities for you. Although mtb'ing will obviously remain at the top of the tree :wink:
  • hi dondon,

    i have been doing 15 to 20 mile road runs on the bike, because i can push the forks to the bottom and lock out the rear high it is like a road bike position. the hands point is a fair one but i was thinking that gel pads may help, but to be honest its something i have become used to, i wouldn't want to do more than 2hrs on it tho, would be way too uncomfortable. i once did try to put end bars on the carbon bars as even when mtbing as i like to stand up and pull, but i completely buggered up the bar ends and had to put on some odi grips (worked out cheaper than a new bar).

    cheers
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • hi alfa,

    i may be wrong, but i have read that some accessories are allowed, like safety, security, trailers, waterproofs, lights. the endura stealth kit has hi vis piping all way round, so i thought this could be sneaked under the radar (and i could save a bundle as its not cheap kit either). do you think this would come into the scheme as visibility kit?
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    I've done commuting on a slicked out mtb over 17.5 miles. It'll be slower, but perfectly achievable.
  • hi ride,

    i know its achievable, but the scheme is a good one. if i can gain 15 mins each way, be more comfortable, not as dirty, drier feet, then using the scheme makes sense. BUT, if i can't gain time by staying in the same heart rate zone, i could spend money (on the scheme if i can) on endura event / stealth kit and get some overshoes for the really wet days (currently use shimano winter boots, which let in water on wet days) coz on tar with slicks there is a lot, i mean a lot of water to contend with. how have you managed with regards to the weather, i woz thinking of getting an old tube zip tied between the stanchions to limit blow back spray to the face and a crud catcher for the down tube. the biggest advantage i like about my mtb is the ability to take the lumps n bumps of the rd with out worrying about the wheel constantly being trued (i know i'm no lightweight)

    cheers
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • girv73girv73 Posts: 842
    I've just bought an £800 road bike (for £500 :)) and compared to my slicked / rigid £500 (for £250 :)) MTB it feels a lot faster.

    My MTB is around 13Kg I think (Commencal Normal Disc 2008) and the road bike is around 9Kg (BeOne Storm 1.0 2008) so there is quite a difference in weight in my case.
    Today is a good day to ride
  • hi girv,

    thanx, maybe what i need is an answer from someone who commuted long term on an mtb then went over to a roadie and commuted some more, perhaps they can offer advice as they are in a position of "bin there, dun that". i'm lucky that i have a high end mtb and appreciate and luv it, but, i would be stupid not to find out if a low to mid range roadie is a better commuter than a high end mtb on slicks. so maybe i should write a pro con list and people can add to either then it maybe clearer to me. here goes (please bear in mind this a hi end mtb on the pro's n con's, not like for like, i sound snobby don't i, believe me i'm not, i just don't want to waste money)

    pro's:

    disk brakes - more power, less dirt n grunge to clean
    xtr chainset,xtr cassette,xtr front mech - better / slicker gear changes, more reliable
    hope pro hubs,on mavic xc rims sealed bearings - more robust for rough rds not constantly having to true the rims
    thumb shifting rapid fire shifters - less stress on gear changing thumb / wrist
    lighter than a mid range roadie (with rack / mudguards)
    can put suspension into mid lock to make tar feel smoother (better on the bum as well)
    had the bike years and tuned it to what i like

    con's:

    no mudguards - wetter / dirtier commutes
    no rack - have to carry load on back or trailer
    wrong geometry for rd - not sure how much of a con this is tho for a commuter
    short flat bar - only a few hand positions
    have to change tyres when i wanna go playing on mary townley loop
    parts dearer to replace - may balance out as xtr are bullet proof - opinions
    more desirable to thieves, whilst not at work, but regularly on same unlit country rd's at same time every day. (is this being overly paranoid tho, do people really get bike jacked?)

    any other suggestions

    cheers
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    To me, any decent road bike upwards of £500 fitted with rack, mudguards and decent 25c tyres would be a better ride. You don't really need all the "comforts" of an mtb on the road, just unnecessary stuff to slow you down.
  • You definitely have to buy a bike as a part of your C2W package; you can't just buy accessories on their own.

    Hope that helps.
  • I used to commute on my MTB which with slicks, lights etc weighed about 26lbs. I now commute on an old British Eagle touring bike which weighs about 24.75 lbs with lights, mudguards etc.

    It is so much easier on a road bike especially in the wet. Crudcatchers are next to useless once you pick up any speed and the spray from the road hits your face making sight very difficult. With full 'guards on it's a different world, no spray at all.

    I use 700 x 23 tyres on the road bike and they roll so much faster than 26 x 1.5 slicks. With the MTB I seem to have to pedal all the time where as there is a lot of freewheeling on the road bike.

    Personally I would go for the road bike, my commute is only 8 miles across Cardiff, I'm sure you will see the benefit on a 13 miler :lol:
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,426
    Looking at your average speed you should definately see an advantage on a road bike. I've just got one and I've not ridden for years and my average jumped from about 9-10mph to 17mph. (over 20 miles)

    I was riding a Saracen Dirttrax on nobbies with no fork lockout though (not a patch on the genius), now on a 19.7(ish)lb 2008 Boardman road comp on 700cx23s. loverly! :D

    Also the brakes on the roadie were a surprise, much better than caliper brakes of yore.
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • Clever PunClever Pun Posts: 6,778
    you can have clothing, lights etc on the c2w scheme but a bike needs to be there as well... there's nothing stopping you spending more than 1k but you obviously have to make up the shortfall.

    think about how you want to carry your stuff and if you'd plan to use the road bike at weekends... if so don't put panniers on imo.

    if you want it solely for a commute a touring bike might be what you want with more space for proper mudguards and the ability to host a proper rack.
    Purveyor of sonic doom

    Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
    Fixed Pista- FCN 5
    Beared Bromptonite - FCN 14
  • cheers guys,

    all good answers and it's obvious i misunderstood the c2w scheme, cheers for putting me straight. i'm intrigued by the big jump in average speed, 8ish mph average speed, on a like for like weight. so i could be looking at gaining 15 mins on my commute one way and probably be fresher....now that's worth thinking about!!!!!!!!
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,426
    I was thinking about this thread on the way home tonight, are you looking for reasons to buy another bike? Or are you looking for reasons to tell the other half why you're buying another bike?

    Obviously the answer to the above makes a huge difference :wink:
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • other half isn't bothered...i've saved her a minimum of £1000 per month (£700 diesel rest payments on hp) it's me, don't wanna waste money for no reason.

    cheers
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,426
    Buying a bike 'no reason' blasphemy!!! :shock:

    Burn him!

    Seriously though I love mine, what cycle scheme are you on is it the halfords one or one of the others?

    The Halfords one is doing a LTD edition full carbon Viner for a grand v. sexy.
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • If you are averaging 11.5 mph then a road bike won't give you much of an advantage in terms of speed gain. You stand more to gain at higher speeds when position, aerodynamics and rolling resistance (although you are already slicked up) have more of an impact.

    However not to say it worth getting a road bike to be more comfortable, take advantage of panniers and mudguards etc
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Overmy 13.5 mile commute (each way) to work i went from 1hr to 44mins when changing from a MTB (33lb) to an oldish road bike (unknown weight) with 700x23c tyres......significantly faster!
    Cheers, Stu
  • duckson wrote:
    Overmy 13.5 mile commute (each way) to work i went from 1hr to 44mins when changing from a MTB (33lb) to an oldish road bike (unknown weight) with 700x23c tyres......significantly faster!

    That is interesting, but the OP says he weighs 100kg at the moment, he's already got slicks and there's only going to be a few lbs difference between the lightweight Scott and a road bike. There's nothing to gain on the weight side and nothing on the aerodynamics or rolling resistance at that average speed...unless he ditches riding at 70% of MHR and starts giving it the full beans
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,426
    If you are averaging 11.5 mph then a road bike won't give you much of an advantage in terms of speed gain.

    Really you sure? I'm not bein picky but I came in on my roadie today in the howling wind and rain, I couldn't see because my glasses were soaked so I was taking it a bit steadier than usual and I still averaged over 15mph (20 miles 700ft of climbing) and I'm fairly sure i'm nowhere near as fit as the op.

    Please don't take this the wrong way tho I hate it when people fight on here :cry:
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,426
    Apologies cannonfodder you just reminded of the 70% hr I dont have an HRM so I'm giving it the beans on both bikes!
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • blorgblorg Posts: 1,169
    I would suspect you would be a fair bit faster on the road bike. More the position than the weight issue. Even with lockout there is still a bit of movement, the road bike will feel stiffer I reckon. For £1,000 you could get something pretty nice too, like a carbon Planet X with Ultegra. I'd say go for it, and it opens up a whole new type of cycling to you.
  • hi prawney,

    tried giving it full beans for about a week and half(15 mile circular hilly route, every day), got the over training symptoms, mouth ulcers, fatigued, sleepy, cranky, so at 70% mhr (i do go over on long climbs coz i prefer out of saddle) i don't get ill or rundown. i'm not fit but not entirely unfit. it does seem to bring up a few points tho. i think i will try it on my mtb at first, just to see what the huge climb is like, if it proves to much of a drag (the undulating 'old haslingden rd' won't be a problem), then a road bike it will have to be. but looking at some other posts on here, once it's bitten i will probably become a 2 bike bloke (maybe even a trike recumbent coz they look fun).

    thanx guys....
    Cotic Soul rider.
  • jam1ejam1e Posts: 1,065
    Could you not borrow/hire a bike of similar quality to the one you're thinking of buying and then see how you get on?
  • I commute 18.5miles each way on a slicked out MTB after being smacked off my road bike! The MTB is not as fast but the ride position is comfortable enough.....the bike is a tank and never goes wrong.....in Spring Summer I will get out my Trek 1500 and give it a whirl...problem on a road bike is I hate stopping when I am tanking it so will probably get smacked off again!

    BTW.....much better workout on the MTB and I keep up with most roadies and couriers...
  • I mostly ride mtb, and i've commuted 17 miles each way on it in the past. I'd say a roadie will be much faster for a given MHR plus you'll arrive so much fresher.

    TBH, why not get a bike to add to the stable...
  • System_1System_1 Posts: 513
    hi guys,
    the weights on paper are very similar but geometry is totally different (plus i can put mudguards on a road bike).
    cheers guys,
    i'm intrigued by the big jump in average speed, 8ish mph average speed, on a like for like weight. so i could be looking at gaining 15 mins on my commute one way and probably be fresher....now that's worth thinking about!!!!!!!!

    Are you sure the weights are similar? £1000 will get you a road bike that'll weigh about 18lbs. I have trouble believing your Scott is that light. 23lbs is super light for a full susser even these days never mind a 2005 bike.

    Although the weight weenie sceptics would have you believe that 5lbs of your body weight would be better (which is true to an extent), losing 5lbs or more off the bike will make a big difference, especially in handling and climbing hills. Coupled with the bigger wheels, skinny tyres and higher gearing you'll be faster, and noticably so. I used to commute on a slicked up hardtail and bought a cheap road bike to commute on. The difference really was night and day.
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