Tour de San Luis 2.1

dave_1

looks like a decent field too. And 4km per hours faster than its rival TDU

Basso for the win

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id= ... sanluis091

iainf72

It looks like a great race. 3 mountain top finishes and a TT

Nibali could be the man for it. But I reckon Basso will put in a showing.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

It looks like a great race. 3 mountain top finishes and a TT

Nibali could be the man for it. But I reckon Basso will put in a showing.

yes, I think Basso, judging by his form against Cunego 3 months a back, will definitely not be treating this race as training given he's hardly raced since the 06 Giro..2 1/2 years...I hope the race throws the spotlight on up and coming riders from South America too...the Columbians vs Basso would be a great battle

blazing_saddles

Yes, certainly a bit more of an early season leg warmer than the TDU.

afx237vi

JJ Haedo must have taken a winter course at the Robbie McEwen School of Sprinting:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?i ... 239_1_full

dave_1

looks like Ivan got his arse felt today...lost time on the climb...love seeing the euro guys get shown how good they are in Latin America

blazing_saddles

Not too far off the pace, though.
The field was spread out all over the place.
Seems Gibo's domestiques are in fine, early season form.
Not much news to be found, other than the stage report.

iainf72

It's the TT tomorrow so I suppose we'll get a good idea how he's going.

Nibali is off the pace a bit.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

It's the TT tomorrow so I suppose we'll get a good idea how he's going.

Nibali is off the pace a bit.

6th today...not quite the man he used to be...not sure his peaking theory works in practice without doping products...in truth physical fitness varies very little on a consistent training regimen , disproves that lot in their talk of "peaking" when infact is an increase in doping on the end of a drug fueled training block...there is no "peaking" without doping...only slight improvements when training is increased in duration and intensity. Without drugs Basso will only be slightly stronger in June based in increases in training..one assumes he is not on 200 miles a week all winter but more like 500 miles a week IMO but forced to recover naturally and therefor has very little margin of improvement naturally

iainf72

You'd not expect him to be completely flying in January, would you? I thought the TT result was very good considering.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

You'd not expect him to be completely flying in January, would you? I thought the TT result was very good considering.

yes and no...he seemed very strong in Japan in October...a match for Cunego. I think being more mentally prepared and increases in training duration/intensity lead for most normal humans to slight improvements...not huge peaks sp will be interested to see what he does...as with LA

blazing_saddles

In all fairness, the Japan Cup was his peak for 2008, being his only race. Then you would assume he resumed normal, closed season training.

PED's obviously boost peaks, but I would also assume that what goes for Basso, goes for his rivals, if they are all riding clean.

I don't think I'll be rushing down the bookies to place my Giro and Tour bets, based upon results, here, Australia, California and Castilla y Leon......

dave_1

Blazing Saddles wrote:

In all fairness, the Japan Cup was his peak for 2008, being his only race. Then you would assume he resumed normal, closed season training.

PED's obviously boost peaks, but I would also assume that what goes for Basso, goes for his rivals, if they are all riding clean.

I don't think I'll be rushing down the bookies to place my Giro and Tour bets, based upon results, here, Australia, California and Castilla y Leon......

Blaze,
I reckon going from 400 miles a week to 500 miles a week with more climbs or with blocks of high intensity work bring small improvements...all the peaking talk from the big names in the past we must remember was probably not down training variations alone as the top guys always train hard so can't explain huge jumps from training alone

But fair enough re Basso...he is posting his blood profiles so he must be willing to accept scrutiny ...LA won't it seems

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

You'd not expect him to be completely flying in January, would you? I thought the TT result was very good considering.

I agree ,as he said himself most of the guys who finished ahead of him were placing a great deal of importance on the race particulary the two Argentinians. I am expecting big things from Basso this year.

MG

dave_1

thank goodness they were ok...must have been some finish

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?i ... 367_1_full

drenkrom

Dave_1 wrote:

there is no "peaking" without doping...

Oh please go read an exercise physiology book or 10! Absolutely 100% false.

dave_1

drenkrom wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

there is no "peaking" without doping...

Oh please go read an exercise physiology book or 10! Absolutely 100% false.

I meant at that level...donkey to race horse in 3 months and back to crap again in August...it's bullshit and the texbooks don't predict it-you go read them again...only an idiot would deny what has gone on over the last 15 years,,,they were in near prime phsyical condition on 400 or 500 miles a week , not fat and with high V02, Savoldelli knocking out 4 mins 29 in disco track tests -all those TDF , giro athletes in March are still very fit yet find huge margins of improvement by May-June, july...only a naive type would trust those sorts of peaks in form...you appear to be one at times...face facts son

stagehopper

But it's not really donkey to racehorse is it? It's non-trier to trier + an improvement to physical condition. Let's move away from men's cycling .... would you say Nicole Cooke had to be on drugs because she didn't show much form all season and specifically chose to build to a peak in August/September last year for the Olympics and Worlds?

DaveyL

Or the British track team... they certainly plan training blocks to peak for certain events.

dave_1

the jump in performance would be someting I could believe if they had doubled their training when infact they have varied it, fractionally changed things as the top guys never slack off much...they are not down at 100 miles a week, they are training non stop week in week out...therefore hughe jumps in form are to be questioned.....I am ONLY talking about the case of European professional cycling...track and womens racing, i don't follow enough to comment. The doping scandals of the past 15 years....

stagehopper

Dave - but how much do you attribute to motivation, quality of team mates and specific goals? Can a 5-10% improvement in condition be enough with those factors added in? How has the psychology of targetting certain races rather than trying to win every race changed the way riders participate in certain races? How does this skew your baselines?

I'm not defending a single doper here, just pointing out that there's a vast array of influences which can have an effect on a rider and allow him to peak if he so chooses.

moray_gub

Dave_1 wrote:

...

..face facts son[/quote]

son ?

MG

RichN95.

Dave_1 wrote:

the jump in performance would be someting I could believe if they had doubled their training when infact they have varied it, fractionally changed things as the top guys never slack off much...they are not down at 100 miles a week, they are training non stop week in week out...therefore hughe jumps in form are to be questioned.....I am ONLY talking about the case of European professional cycling...track and womens racing, i don't follow enough to comment. The doping scandals of the past 15 years....

You say you're only talking about road cycling but you say that there is no peaking without doping. Well in every other sport (even darts) the competitors train and compete so that they peak at a certain time. So why is cycling any different.

As a teenager I was a good hurdler** - I trained to peak for certain races. Now I'm involved at a fairly high level in hockey - our first team trains to peak for certain events.

Neither the teenage me or my hockey team dope - so is our peaking myth?


(**Similarly sudden jumps in performance aren't necessarily down to doping. I went from a reserve in the school team to top ten in the UK (for my age group) in five weeks - it was all about confidence)

blazing_saddles

Putting the thread back on track. Another tough stage.
Jose Serpa finishes third and Basso moves up to 5th in the GC at 2'-24".
He seems to be enjoying the experience.
More than can be said about that helicopter crew. :shock:

Doobz

would be awesome if there was somewhere that had live text updates. Its nice to see basso looking strong again..