Quick question on chain tools

Jamey

Is it worth spending £25 on a nice chain tool like the Pedros one or should I just get a cheap one like this £8 jobby?

I use joining links in my chains so I'll only really ever need to remove pins when shortening new chains, which is what makes me think it's not worth investing double the cash into a nice chain tool.

Whaddya reckon?

prj45

A well built tool will seat itself much better on the plate, I'd go for quality myself.

gtvlusso

Both of mine are fine - they were both from cheap cycle tool kits - you know the sort - get you home kits.

Don't ask why I have 2.....!

I switched to using SRAM powerlink chains, made life much simpler!

barrybaines

I've had one of these.... http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Park_Tools_Chain_Brute_Chain_Tool/410395818/ for years now works a treat and very strong. trouble is I sometimes forget I have it and use the crappy one on my Alien tool!

2tired2ride

barrybaines wrote:

I've had one of these.... http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Park_Tools_Chain_Brute_Chain_Tool/410395818/ for years now works a treat and very strong. trouble is I sometimes forget I have it and use the crappy one on my Alien tool!

This is a really good chain tool, the cheaper chain tools dont last and brake.

Jamey

2tired2ride wrote:

...the cheaper chain tools dont last and brake.

I can appreciate that but given that all I'll be doing is pushing out pins (not even pushing them back in again) once every few months, surely I'm still going to get a good few years' worth of service from even a cheap tool, aren't I?

crankycrank

Unless you're using it every week that cheaper Lifeline model looks more than up to the job. Looks better than the 3 quid tool I still use that I purchased 15 yrs. ago.

4dam

when my chain snapped last month i was using me cheap chain tool when it broke. Leaving me with a long walk. Reason being it was made from some sort of cast so it was no good with any pressure on it to push the pin out.

Sewinman

Silly question - but what are you using these chain tools for, and should I be doing what you are doing?

Jamey

Sewinman wrote:

Silly question - but what are you using these chain tools for, and should I be doing what you are doing?

You only need a chain tool in two situations:

Situation one - you're replacing the chain (they wear out eventually) and you need to shorten the new one you've bought down to the correct length (new chains are too long and need to be chopped down to the correct length for your bike).

Situation two - your chain breaks and you need to remove a broken link to get you home.

In situation one there are two possibilities for joining up the new chain once you've got it the correct length... You can either use a joining link or you can join the chain into a permanent loop (the old-fashioned way of doing it). If you use a joining link then apart from breakages you should only ever need to remove pins from chains when shortening new ones and you should never need to push any pins back in unless you make a mistake. If you join the chain the old-fashioned way then you'll need to push the pin back in again to join the chain back up.

When it comes to joining links every chain manufacturer has a different name for them but they're all basically they same thing. SRAM call it a Powerlink, KMC call it a Missing Link and other chain makers have yet more names but basically it's just two plates that fit together by hand and then lock in place. They enable you to remove the chain easily from the bike without needing any tools whatsoever and the joining link is just as strong as doing it the old-fashioned way. The only potential downside is that the two halves of the link are quite small and could be easy to lose, so it's worth having spares.

There have been a couple of times when I've been fixing the chain back together and my hand's slipped, resulting in one or both of the link halves flying across the pavement and it took a good five minutes of searching through leaves and other debris to find it again.

Sewinman

Jamey wrote:

Sewinman wrote:

Silly question - but what are you using these chain tools for, and should I be doing what you are doing?

You only need a chain tool in two situations:

Situation one - you're replacing the chain (they wear out eventually) and you need to shorten the new one you've bought down to the correct length (new chains are too long and need to be chopped down to the correct length for your bike).

Situation two - your chain breaks and you need to remove a broken link to get you home.

In situation one there are two possibilities for joining up the new chain once you've got it the correct length... You can either use a joining link or you can join the chain into a permanent loop (the old-fashioned way of doing it). If you use a joining link then apart from breakages you should only ever need to remove pins from chains when shortening new ones and you should never need to push any pins back in unless you make a mistake. If you join the chain the old-fashioned way then you'll need to push the pin back in again to join the chain back up.

When it comes to joining links every chain manufacturer has a different name for them but they're all basically they same thing. SRAM call it a Powerlink, KMC call it a Missing Link and other chain makers have yet more names but basically it's just two plates that fit together by hand and then lock in place. They enable you to remove the chain easily from the bike without needing any tools whatsoever and the joining link is just as strong as doing it the old-fashioned way. The only potential downside is that the two halves of the link are quite small and could be easy to lose, so it's worth having spares.

There have been a couple of times when I've been fixing the chain back together and my hand's slipped, resulting in one or both of the link halves flying across the pavement and it took a good five minutes of searching through leaves and other debris to find it again.

Ok, thanks v much for the thorough explanation. Do you take the chain off to clean it?

Jamey

Sewinman wrote:

Do you take the chain off to clean it?

Now you're asking

That's potentially a whole can of worms but I'll try to summarise and be fair.

There are two schools of thought on chain cleaning.

School one thinks that thorough degreasing of chains in unnecessary and that it's best to just wipe the chain with an oily rag to remove most of the gunk and then re-lube it while it's still on the bike. This is by far the easiest and least time-consuming method.

School two believes that dirty chains should be completely cleaned (ie sparkling) and then re-lubricated. Within this school there are several methods of cleaning - some people use a chain cleaning/scrubbing device that works with the chain still on the bike and some people remove the chain and soak it in a bath of degreaser. It doesn't really matter which method you use, the objective is the same - to get the chain as clean as possible before re-lubing it.

There is one thing both schools usually agree on - the 'factory lube' (the grease that's already inside a brand new chain you've just bought) is a very good lubricant and should be left on as long as possible before the first re-lube becomes necessary.

This is the quickest I can summarise the world of chain cleaning and I've tried to be fair to both schools. There are lots of threads about it on forums all over the internet and you get a lot of arguments between people about what's best.

For what it's worth I belong to the second school and I like to remove the chain from the bike and soak it in white spirit (in a locking tupperware tub) for a day or two to completely clean it, then I rinse it in hot water, spray it with GT85 to drive out the water and re-lube it with Finish Line Wet or Dry lube, depending on what season it is (Wet lube in autumn/winter, Dry lube in spring/summer).

HTH

Jamey

Sewinman wrote:

Do you take the chain off to clean it?

Now you're asking

That's potentially a whole can of worms but I'll try to summarise and be fair.

There are two schools of thought on chain cleaning.

School one thinks that thorough degreasing of chains in unnecessary and that it's best to just wipe the chain with an oily rag to remove most of the gunk and then re-lube it while it's still on the bike. This is by far the easiest and least time-consuming method.

School two believes that dirty chains should be completely cleaned (ie sparkling) and then re-lubricated. Within this school there are several methods of cleaning - some people use a chain cleaning/scrubbing device that works with the chain still on the bike and some people remove the chain and soak it in a bath of degreaser. It doesn't really matter which method you use, the objective is the same - to get the chain as clean as possible before re-lubing it.

There is one thing both schools usually agree on - the 'factory lube' (the grease that's already inside a brand new chain you've just bought) is a very good lubricant and should be left on as long as possible before the first re-lube becomes necessary.

This is the quickest I can summarise the world of chain cleaning and I've tried to be fair to both schools. There are lots of threads about it on forums all over the internet and you get a lot of arguments between people about what's best.

For what it's worth I belong to the second school and I like to remove the chain from the bike and soak it in white spirit (in a locking tupperware tub) for a day or two to completely clean it, then I rinse it in hot water, spray it with GT85 to drive out the water and re-lube it with Finish Line Wet or Dry lube, depending on what season it is (Wet lube in autumn/winter, Dry lube in spring/summer).

HTH

Sewinman

Wow, thanks for the reply. I have not touched my chain since i bought the bike about 4 months ago!

Jamey

Not touched it at all?

Try lubing it, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. In terms of bang-for-buck lubing a chain is just about the best value improvement you can make to a bike.

4dam

Sewinman, With how bad the weather as been and with all the salt that's been put down on the road it might be a good idea to give your chain a good going over. i bet your links are getting a bit stiff.

alfablue

School of thought (1) says a thorough going over will expose the chain to salt attack quite effectively!

Wipe down, relube with Prolink Progold

Jamey

The black, greasy build-up you get on chains contains salt.

If you leave that inside the chain you've already got salt there, plus whatever else is grinding the rollers from the inside.

Note to Sewinman - this is what i was talking about. Me and alfablue are now going to fight to the death and it's all your fault!

alfablue

No Jamey, its all right, I'm not going to fight, I'm just off to sterilise my kitchen utensils instead!

greg66_tri_v2.0

Jamey wrote:

There are two schools of thought on chain cleaning.

School one thinks that thorough degreasing of chains in unnecessary and that it's best to just wipe the chain with an oily rag to remove most of the gunk and then re-lube it while it's still on the bike. This is by far the easiest and least time-consuming method.

School two believes that dirty chains should be completely cleaned (ie sparkling) and then re-lubricated. Within this school there are several methods of cleaning - some people use a chain cleaning/scrubbing device that works with the chain still on the bike and some people remove the chain and soak it in a bath of degreaser. It doesn't really matter which method you use, the objective is the same - to get the chain as clean as possible before re-lubing it.

Having tried: the wipe; the removal and soak; and the chain cleaning device, I'll chip in with what I now think is the best effort:reward method: pour some degreaser onto a cloth and give the chain a fierce rub with that, plus a scrubs with a toothbrush dipped in degreaser. Clean the muck off the pulleys with a toothbrush and degreaser; wipe clean and re-lube.

The wipe (I find) gets surface crap off, but not the embedded crap off. The chain remover is a filthy piece of kit that uses far too much degreaser (much of which is wasted). Removing the chain is a right PITA (for Campy chains, you have to find the right link to open, and have a spare pin to hand) and even after soaking, you'll be depressed because you'll be able to hear all the little bits of grit in the chain that you can't get out (put it up next to your ear and twist it gently).

Cleaning and relubing the pulleys works wonders, IME.

Jamey wrote:

There is one thing both schools usually agree on - the 'factory lube' (the grease that's already inside a brand new chain you've just bought) is a very good lubricant and should be left on as long as possible before the first re-lube becomes necessary.

Oh yes!

Jamey

If you use a Powerlink/Missing Link/Joining link then removing the chain and soaking it is a piece of cake. Just take it off Friday night, leave it in white spirit until Sunday afternoon, rinse it, bit of GT85, put it back on the bike and lube it up.

All of the work is done while you're sleeping/watching TV/whatever.

I agree about cleaning the rollers too - easy and does make a difference.

biondino

Just to throw another spanner in, my mate who works in a bike shop in Oakland and knows a lot about maintenance says he always degreases to get rid of factory lube and then applies a better suited lube (of course I can't remember which) that attracts less street muck...

alfablue

biondino wrote:

Just to throw another spanner in, my mate who works in a bike shop in Oakland and knows a lot about maintenance says he always degreases to get rid of factory lube and then applies a better suited lube (of course I can't remember which) that attracts less street muck...

He knows better than KMC

Brief extract from above link:

NEVER EVER use a so-called'chain washing machine' in combination with solvent. This is the one
and only sure way to instantly ruin your chain.
- Avoid the use of solvents, not only are these bad for the environment, they remove lubricant from the chain's bearing.

(but I'm not going to argue about it )

Jamey

Yes, that's the point of a solvent - to clean things.

And then when it's clean and there's no more grinding paste inside the chain you put some more lube in and away you go.

Totalnewbie

I wondered how a thread on chain tools got so long, I should have known. (The one that came with my Topeak Alien tool is very good, even with the really hard to break chunky chain that is on my hybrid - hub gears so has a SS chain).

Just to stick my oar in, I have also heard it told that using solvent can drive dirt further into the chain :twisted:

Do not forget to wipe off excess whatever method you employ or it will pick up even more road-grot loveliness.

Jamey

You make it sound like there's some magical, un-cleanable pocket inside the chain's rollers.

There's not. It's perfectly possible to completely clean a chain, inside and out. And whatever you do dirt will always get inside the chain after a bit of riding and begin to grind away at the rollers, so unless you remove that dirt the chain will wear more quickly.

If you believe that simply re-lubing a chain removes dirt from inside or you think that dirt doesn't wear away a chain much faster then fair enough, I can accept that much more easily than if you thought that dirt doesn't get in there or that soaking it in solvent doesn't clean it.

el_presidente

At the end of the day it's a £15 chain, not the Elgin marbles. Clean & relube it how you like, or ignore it, whatever floats your boat. Just get a new one when it's worn out. You don't take your brake blocks off & wash them do you?

biondino

You probably should considering what gets stuck in them - the amount of metal I've picked out from mine is :shock:

biondino

El_P has a point - I'd be more worried about the danger of the grit attached to the chain wearing away my sprockets and chainrings, and if this grit can be removed more or less then I'm sorted. I think.

_Brun_

el_presidente wrote:

You don't take your brake blocks off & wash them do you?

Brake blocks should always be washed on the bike, damnit!

Totalnewbie

I was just about to post what el_p said. So much effort is devoted to this topic you'd think chains cost hundreds of pounds to replace. As long as you catch them before they take the cassette with them, it doesn't really matter all that much - just get a chain wear checker (or do the ruler thing).