Boycott LV insurance

CarKiller

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/CTC ... 75252.html

And email cyclingnews.com telling them that they either got suckered, or are just arse-licking some corporate sponsors: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... jan16news2

bobthebuilder

That is quite a wierdly worded bit of research. What is the measure of an inexperienced cyclist? One who has no formal training, or one who is young, or one who hasn't done many miles.

I think this is an example of coming up with an answer and then finding stats to back it up.

The CTC makes some compelling rebuttals to the claims though.

I doubt that boycotting LV would make any difference though TBH.

eternal_headwind

Steer clear of LV if possible anyway. No point in letting them have your cash for this kind of rubbish anyway

beverick

"Singling out cyclists as a law-breaking group is discriminatory ....."

It's a pretty accurate description though.

Bob

bobthebuilder

beverick wrote:

"Singling out cyclists as a law-breaking group is discriminatory ....."

It's a pretty accurate description though.

Bob

I don't think it's particularly accurate, no more accurate than to describe old people as a law breaking group because a couple of pensioners have been caught shoplifting!

eternal_headwind

All that is happenening here is that more bike commuters take the car when it is cold, wet and dark. Therefore the nuber of bike accidents goes down in the winter. Shock horror.

All this shows is that LV do second rate work. Take your direct debits elsewhere.

number9

I emailed a complaint and got a frankly baffling reply:

Following on from our conversation on Friday afternoon please see below for the actual research findings. As I said to you on the telephone the research was conducted by YouGov amongst cyclists themselves – not motorists. YouGov is an international market research company and used by a wide range of organisations including Channel 4, the Economist and the Government itself.

This was not aimed as a dig at all cyclists as a warning to inexperienced cyclists to ensure they are aware of the rules of the roads and also to ensure motorists are aware of the changing demographics of UK roads.

As you will see below what we are actually asking for is the Government to increase the availability of cyclist training as currently it doesn’t seem to have much of a high profile – certainly there is little promotion of any such training in my local town and cycling is very common (Brighton).

As I said Cycling Plus magazine have worked with us on this as they saw it as a good opportunity to rise the issue of cyclist training – and also to promote cyclist safety. We would have liked to work with the CTC to join us in calling for more availability of free training for cyclists taking to the roads for the first time but unfortunately they choose to issue their story without even seeing the research. What I would say is the increase in collisions is amongst all road users – pedestrians, other cyclists and motor cyclists – as well as motorists. This cannot be compared to the number of cyclist injuries reported to the Police as the vast majority of these collisions go unreported.

We certainly did not want to upset cyclists – I myself am a cyclist and both my brother and dad re ex-professional cyclistsso I am aware of the issues.

Original pr:

Mounting financial pressures have led to a surge in inexperienced cyclists taking to the roads, resulting in a 29% increase in collisions involving cyclists in the past six months1.



New research from car insurer LV= reveals that one in 20 Brits2 have got on their bikes in the past 12 months in an attempt to cut costs. Yet the findings show that this has caused a surge in accidents with 150,0003 cyclists saying they have been involved in a collision in the last six months.

A lack of formal training may be one of the causes of this problem, with more than half (52 per cent) of cyclists admitting they have never read the Highway Code’s advice for cyclists and just 42 per cent have taken a cycling proficiency course.

With many thousands of inexperienced cyclists taking to the roads, motorists and other road users need to be extra vigilant to avoid collisions. The majority of Brits (64 per cent) would like to see adult cycling proficiency tests become compulsory so LV= is calling on the Government and local councils to increase the availability of training for cyclists.

Spokesperson for LV= Car Insurance, said: “Cycling is a cheap and enjoyable way to get from A to B and great exercise at the same time but it’s essential that new cyclists are fully equipped to deal with the busy British roads to ensure their own safety and that of other road users.

“Motorists need to be aware of the changing demographics of road users and ensure they keep a keen eye out for cyclists at all times.

“If cycling training was compulsory, and cyclists were better equipped to follow the rules of the roads we believe motorists, pedestrians and cyclists themselves would all benefit from fewer accidents and a safer environment on the road.”

Notes to editors All figures, unless otherwise stated, are from YouGov Plc. Total sample size was 2,193 adults. Fieldwork was undertaken between 18th - 20th November 2008. The survey was carried out online. The figures have been weighted and are representative of all GB adults (aged 18+).

1. Among all road users (there are 33,809,493, according to ONS) 15% (5,071,423) have been involved in a road accident with a cyclist at some point. 12 per cent (608,570) of these accidents occurred in the past 12 months (2008) (264,570 in the first half of the year and 344,000 in the past six months = an increase of 29%).

2. Of the UK adult population (45,434,897) 6 per cent have started cycling in the last 12 months = 2.7 million cyclists 3. 150,434 accidents in the last six months (see above for full methodology)

Emma Holyer

Media Relations Manager

LV=

downfader

I would imagine a good many of those who have decided to take up the cycle are old enough to have had the old cycling proficiency back in the day. I'm 31 and I remember taking it when I was about 12 or 13. They did it for about 5 more years and then seemed to cancel it from the local schools.

The younger cyclists have never had that option, I'm talking the under 18s here. Those over 18 probably will have learned to drive in most cases if here is anything to go by. So by proxy they will have read the highway code...

..so this leads me to a bit of a concern that many know the highway code and are basically ignoring it, rather than it being an issue of "lack of training". By proxy compulsary training wont help these people. A polite word in the ear by a copper might.

LV also dont differenciate between starting and continue. Many have tried it and been put off, I'm sure.

They seem intent on doing some kind of battle with the CTC here, LOL. I think poo-pooing the CTC's knowledge or use of research is a bit of a backward step.There were perhaps very good reasons why the CTC didnt look at the "results" as perhaps they didnt need to. The CTC have more grounding in cycling issues than the insurer for one, and the insurer are meerly interpretting results of a previous survey.

What needs to be done is a proper survey. Insurers are in a prime position to go through their records and see how many claims have been made involving cyclists in the past year, what were the defining factors, etc. I still think they're scaremongering

beverick

bobthebuilder wrote:

beverick wrote:

"Singling out cyclists as a law-breaking group is discriminatory ....."

It's a pretty accurate description though.

Bob

I don't think it's particularly accurate, no more accurate than to describe old people as a law breaking group because a couple of pensioners have been caught shoplifting!

It's a pretty accurate description. Few cyclists even attempt to comply with even basic road traffic law never mind more detailed requirements.

I saw four other cyclists on my way into work this morning. One was unlit, one was cycling down the pavement and another rode through a red light and then proceded to ride the wrong way down a dual carriageway. The depressing thing is that seeing two of five cyclists obeying the law, considering their safety and that of others is a pretty high average. I'd expect a figure closer to 1 in 10.

Bob

number9

It's a pretty accurate description. Few cyclists even attempt to comply with even basic road traffic law never mind more detailed requirements.

Absolute twaddle.

A survey by the RAC found that, yes, a lot of cyclists run red lights.


It also found that one in ten drivers in Manchester and London crossed traffic lights more than three seconds after the lights turned red, and one in five bus drivers ran red lights.


There are ten thousand traffic light camera prosecutions annually in London alone, a small part of the 1.5 million prosecutions annually based on camera evidence (I don't know what proportion are speed versus red lights), in turn the tip of the iceberg of twelve million prosecutions and cautions for motoring offences by UK police forces in 2002.

Lawbreaking, then, is not restricted to bikes.

Motorists break the law in vast numbers.

Speeding, in particular , is rife, and despite the evidence that the faster you go the more likely you are to kill or be killed if you crash, when speed cameras are erected we don't laugh at the idiots who get caught, we rail against the "stealth tax" on motorists.


Gatsos are a stealth tax on motorists in the same way that city centre video cameras are a stealth tax on muggers and DNA testing is a stealth tax on rapists.





Drivers also park illegally, causing danger and inconvenience.

And they fail to observe box junctions (many drivers haven't a clue what these are anyway), they overtake on the inside, they hog the middle lane on motorways, they drive on the pavement and damage it, they use fog lights when it's not foggy or raining, they drive while drunk or stoned or smoking or talking on the phone, they drive with the stereo turned up too loud, they drive looking over their shoulders at screaming children, and they kill and injure over a quarter of a million people a year.

And they seem to think that an annual payment of a hundred and fifty quid gives them a right to do this.

So on the matter of cyclists and illegal behaviour, I quote the well known words of John 8:7 - let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Bloody_cyclists

alfablue

Hey!!!!

Number 9, that was quite rousing! 100% spot on!

BUT, I would like cyclists to be a model of virtue, we should aspire to be better than drivers.

number9

Suppose a thread appeared discussing a new road, and someone popped up and said "When oh when are motorists going to stop getting pissed and killing innocent people"?

You'd think they were a very strange, prejudiced person, no?

So why does it happen all the time with cyclists ? Collective guilt. The many judged on the actions of a few?

Whilst drivers kill ten people a day and cyclists kill 0.5 people a year we'll never have equality, that's the tragedy right there.

spen666

The fact that motorists break laws does not lessen the fact that many cyclists do like wise

edhornby

Number9 - is that a copy an paste of the reply that you got from Emma Hoyler ???

that is by far the most unproffesional, poorly worded bit of PR I have ever seen !!!!

number9

edhornby wrote:

Number9 - is that a copy an paste of the reply that you got from Emma Hoyler ???

that is by far the most unproffesional, poorly worded bit of PR I have ever seen !!!!

Yep. It baffled me, frankly, it's like they got a conclusion and worked backwards to their misleading headline. She was very defensive on the phone, mentioned her professional cycling relatives a few times in a "I'm not racist, some of my best friends..." etc.


The story got a kicking when it appeared in the Independent.


The fact that motorists break laws does not lessen the fact that many cyclists do like wise


Way to go missing the point, sizzle chest.

I'm saying that there is a disproportionate and hysterical attitude toward cyclists who, if online comments and talkboards are anything to go by, spend all their time being totally invisible, riding the wrong way up a road the wrong way with no lights on an Ipod punching kittens and moving down eleventy twelve colour blind ginger orphan children, and they don't pay road tax.

downfader

What you have to remember is, and many people dont like this analogy, hating cyclists is the new acceptable bigotry. You're not allowed to give abuse to foreigners, ethnic minorities, religeous types, women, fat people, old people... etc... but wait who can the bigots hate and make the scapegoat of societies ills...? The cyclist is perfect for this as they are effectively "us" but on a bike, so still different enough to prejudice and so on.

If you hit a law breaking cyclist on the roads in a motor its invariably the cyclist that is worse off. If a cyclist hits you as a pedestrian you stand a good chance of not being too seriously injured. This logic seems to go out the window with modern society.