Africa the next russia?

josame

Appears that efforts are being made to find an African to rival LA

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja ... -de-france

Is it really true that a black cyclist has never entered the TdF???

Kléber

A fascinating article.

It is true that a black rider hasn't ridden the Tour. For a long time it's been very European. In the 1920s a Japanese rider rode it but abandoned and it wasn't until the 1980s that riders from beyond Europe began to make their mark, but we're talking Australians and Americans, and latterly Eastern Europeans.

I think Djamolodine Abdujaparov was the first Asian to win a stage in the Tour and Robbie Hunter the first African. Rony Martias rode and finished the Giro recently, he is from the West Indies.

It's being overshadowed by the Armstrong-mania but don't forget the Amissa Bongo Trophy stage race in Gabon on right now, not the world's biggest race but there are a few decent African stage races, like the Ivory Coast Peace race and the Burkina Faso Tour.

SolerFan

Not that I've researched the topic but as far as I can remember there's been nothing but White boys (Europeans, Anglos) & Latinos in the Tour. I'm sure one day soon things will change for those of Asian & African descent. Cultures & economies :? are always changing.
The American Rahsaan Bahati comes to mind as potential in a few years (if the Alps & Pyrenees don't do him in) and of course if le Tour was around in Major Taylor's heyday he may have given it a shot.

josame

Thanks Kleber

leguape

Kléber wrote:

A fascinating article.

It is true that a black rider hasn't ridden the Tour. For a long time it's been very European. In the 1920s a Japanese rider rode it but abandoned and it wasn't until the 1980s that riders from beyond Europe began to make their mark, but we're talking Australians and Americans, and latterly Eastern Europeans.

I think Djamolodine Abdujaparov was the first Asian to win a stage in the Tour and Robbie Hunter the first African. Rony Martias rode and finished the Giro recently, he is from the West Indies.

It's being overshadowed by the Armstrong-mania but don't forget the Amissa Bongo Trophy stage race in Gabon on right now, not the world's biggest race but there are a few decent African stage races, like the Ivory Coast Peace race and the Burkina Faso Tour.

This story was doing the rounds last summer, [cynical] this looks like another press release update to me [/cynical]

Did he miss the bit where there was a North African team that rode the Tour several times in the 50s? It is entirely incorrect to say that an African has never ridden the Tour, there's a few Algerians who might contest that, hence why his "African Cyclist" project seems to be about sub-saharan africa only.

There's also the small matter of Eritrea, which is pretty bike mad as a former Italian colony. I'm too old/too rubbish to try it but I've always wanted to take a trip and race the Tour of Eritrea. He could have started his search there or South Africa, or by going through the ever-increasing list of riders that the UCI has been trying to help develop.

afx237vi

Yeah this story did do the rounds last summer. There's a film coming out later this year:

http://theafricancyclist.com/the_movie.html

While it does sound quite shocking that no black rider has ever competed in the Tour, I think you have to remember that until relatively recently the Tour was an incredibly insular event. The first American didn't compete until 1981!

blazing_saddles

and here it is. September '08.............from.......The Guardian!
42 minutes up the Alpe on some naff machinery.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... e.cycling1

Now, all they have to do is learn how to ride in a peloton, racing tacics and know-how, training etc etc etc....

What about the guy who fell asleep, under a tree, then woke up and rode in the wrong direction?
Wasn't he from N Af?

afx237vi

Blazing Saddles wrote:

What about the guy who fell asleep, under a tree, then woke up and rode in the wrong direction?
Wasn't he from N Af?

Yeah, Abdel Kader Zaaf, an Algerian. He has quite a sad story:

http://www.bobkestrut.com/2007/01/03/ha ... utes-drag/

He was also lanterne rouge in 1951.

dave_1

Professional cycling is a white sport and only based in developed countries at pro tour level...that is the sad fact....I hope more east Asians, South Asian and black African cyclists are giving places in teams or the opportunity to show themselves...

Monty Dog

Virenque was born in Casablanca - does he count? There was a Tunisian rider who rode as a pro in France too - almost certainly rode the tour.

Monty Dog

Virenque was born in Casablanca - does he count? There was a Tunisian rider who rode as a pro in France too - almost certainly rode the tour.

Monty Dog

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Molines

Correction - he was Algerian and won a stage of the Tour in 1950

LangerDan

Ali Neffati of Tunisia rode the 1913 Tour and was apparently notable for wearing a fez while racing.

JC.152

wouldn't it make sense for a contentia team just to sign some of these africans just to see how they could get on, cos imagine the profits,publicity and opportunuites if it became like long distance running and marathons

has napolotano(former lampre sprinter now katyusha) rode the tour?

Tom Butcher

I'm pretty certain I've seen a black rider in the tour about 4-5 years ago - from memory he rode for Cofidis though I wouldn't swear to that.

ultralight

Professional cycling is a white sport and only based in developed countries at pro tour level...that is the sad fact....I hope more east Asians, South Asian and black African cyclists are giving places in teams or the opportunity to show themselves...

There are plenty of top quality riders from these countries that could hold themselves with european pro teams given the chance, these chances are just around the corner.
Giro del Capo this time last year proved that and so did the famous mtb Cape-Epic 08 just check the results, rode with these guys, totally hardcore and a great inspiration, they want this more than most.

Kléber

JC.152 wrote:

has napolotano(former lampre sprinter now katyusha) rode the tour?

He's Sicilian. Swarthy you might say but Italian.

I mentioned Mathias above, as he's from the French West Indies. Don't know who the Cofidis rider mentioned above is? Ag2r have signed Blel Kadri, who is French but of North African heritage.

ultralight

Rodriguez?

afx237vi

ultralight wrote:

Rodriguez?

Which one? Fred? He's hardly black.

I think the definition is getting a bit mixed up. Clearly there have been non-Caucasian riders in the Tour. Central Asians, North Africans, Latinos, South Americans and so on... but never an Afro-Caribbean or Sub-Saharan African.

Tom Butcher

As I say I could have sworn there was a young black rider in the tour a few years ago - I suppose it may have been the vuelta or giro but I had it in my mind it was the tour - and I've a recollection that he rode for Cofidis or at least a French team, that he was a bit of a sprinter and that he caused or was involved in a big crash on one of the first couple of stages - maybe I'm just having very vivid dreams about cycling.

Tom Butcher

Quick google throws up a possible name Mederic Clain ?

blazing_saddles

The next stage in this debate is whether Vino, a Kazakh, is European or Asian.....

FJS

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The next stage in this debate is whether Vino, a Kazakh, is European or Asian.....

Just as Asian as Robbie Hunter is African...

afx237vi

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The next stage in this debate is whether Vino, a Kazakh, is European or Asian.....

Tricky one. Kazakhstan has two distinct ethnicities... Russians and indigenous Kazakhs.

My guess would be Vino = European (Russian Kazakh), but someone like Assan Basayev would be an Asian Kazakh.

neeb

I'd like to see a global distribution map for ratios of fast twich vs. slow twich muscle fibers, could be interesting...

One reason The U.S.A. hasn't produced many black pro cyclists is that the black population of the States is mostly of west African ancestry, where a high ratio of fast-twitch fibers predominates. It's the east Africans who probably have most potential as cyclists as they are more often of slim build with a high ratio of slow twtich. Similarly in Europe, skinny slow-twichers are more common in Italy and Spain and bulky fast twitchers in northern Europe. Fascinating to speculate about to what extent the prominence of Belgians and Germans as winners of the green jersey in the TdF, and Italians and Spanish as winners of the King of the Mountains, is down to genetics or just to the availability of hills...

leguape

neeb wrote:

I'd like to see a global distribution map for ratios of fast twich vs. slow twich muscle fibers, could be interesting...

One reason The U.S.A. hasn't produced many black pro cyclists is that the black population of the States is mostly of west African ancestry, where a high ratio of fast-twitch fibers predominates. It's the east Africans who probably have most potential as cyclists as they are more often of slim build with a high ratio of slow twtich. Similarly in Europe, skinny slow-twichers are more common in Italy and Spain and bulky fast twitchers in northern Europe. Fascinating to speculate about to what extent the prominence of Belgians and Germans as winners of the green jersey in the TdF, and Italians and Spanish as winners of the King of the Mountains, is down to genetics or just to the availability of hills...

Gaul, Van Impe, Merckx? It's a very crude distinction to make between northern and southern european.

neeb

Gaul, Van Impe, Merckx? It's a very crude distinction to make between northern and southern european.

Sure, it's a statistical tendency, not a absolute rule. We're all pretty genetically mixed in Europe anyway. But it's true that higher ratios of slow twitch fibers are more common in southern Spain, Italy and North Africa.

I read somewhere that all road cyclists, even the sprinters, are more or less endurance athletes compared to sprinters in running. I guess people like Merckx probably had a uniquely useful combination of all three different muscle types (as well as lots of other innate and cultural advantages!).

Bugly

for runners beyond 400m is a distance event. It is possible that the determining factor for a lack of elite level black cyclists is mainly due to economics not hereditary.

neeb

It is possible that the determining factor for a lack of elite level black cyclists is mainly due to economics not hereditary.

I'm sure that must be the case in general (i.e. globally, and especially in Africa).

teagar

neeb wrote:

I'd like to see a global distribution map for ratios of fast twich vs. slow twich muscle fibers, could be interesting...

One reason The U.S.A. hasn't produced many black pro cyclists is that the black population of the States is mostly of west African ancestry, where a high ratio of fast-twitch fibers predominates. It's the east Africans who probably have most potential as cyclists as they are more often of slim build with a high ratio of slow twtich. Similarly in Europe, skinny slow-twichers are more common in Italy and Spain and bulky fast twitchers in northern Europe. Fascinating to speculate about to what extent the prominence of Belgians and Germans as winners of the green jersey in the TdF, and Italians and Spanish as winners of the King of the Mountains, is down to genetics or just to the availability of hills...

You are in very dogey territory. I would strongly recomend dissasociating race with sporting performance. Next thing you know you'll be associating race with more general performance in life rather than just sport.

It is almost certainly much more likely to with many other factors, social, economic, general variations, culture etc.

There was a program once on why 110m hurdler Colin Jackson was so fast and the conclusion was that it had little to do with his race.

Stop thinking about people in terms of race. it only causes problems.

neeb

Stop thinking about people in terms of race. it only causes problems.

Excuse me, I didn't mention race even once... you did!

Race is probably a meaningless concept in human biology; there are far more differences overall within any "racial" group that you could define than between them, and different characteristics that vary geographically aren't well enough correlated with each other. Skin colour is one of the most meaningless characters of all in terms of correlating with anything else. Nonetheless there are clearly differences in the distribution of individual human characteristics in different populations, to claim otherwise is just ridiculous 1970s social-science / postmodernist bollocks.

Few people would claim that the predominance of east africans in long distance running had nothing to do with genetics, at least statistically.

It's ironic that it's regarded as "dodgy territory" to acknowledge the obvious fact that there are genetic differences between human beings, while apparent it is is not "dodgy" to talk about "race" in general and to encourage people to think of themselves as being racially "black" or "cacausian".

I don't blame you though, these misconceptions are almost universal.