Some people deserve to be taken out of the gene pool !!!!

Rich158

Normally I would put this in the rant section, but this persons stupidity deserves a wider audience :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I had to drive into work today :evil: and driving home tonight I saw some idiot cycling along the insiide lane of the A2 just past Bluewater. Now bear in mind at this point the A2 is effectively a four lane motorway, and this idiot was riding primary in the inside lane with cars and HGV's passing within a foot of him at 50-60mph :shock: It must have been terrifying beyond belief.

I guess the only thing on his side was that he did have a hi-vis jacket on, visible lights and a helmet, just not enough sense to use the hard shoulder, or the cycle lane the other side of the crash barriers. Instead he prefered to make the traffic on an extremely busy, very dangerous stretch of road try and sqeeze past him.

I only pity the poor sod that does the rest of humanity a favour and takes this twat out of the gene pool, they'll have to live with the guilt caused by this idiots complete stupidity :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

gtvlusso

And people think RLJ is bad......I think motorists would find this more annoying!

nwallace

Don't see the problem,

The Hard Shoulder is not the road

The Inside lane (i presume the left hand) is all right and being dual carriageway means overtaking vehicles don't have to enter a lane containing traffic coming in the opposite direction.

The 50/60mph traffic isn't anything different from what you get on country roads.

The distance between vehicles is a bit narrow but that's the overtaking traffics fault


I presume then the problem is actually that the road is insanely busy.
You also mention nothing of the speed he was travelling at,

Would you be saying the same if it was a Lambretta doing 20?

downfader

just had a look on google's satelite pics of it. Looks like a motorway to me??? Theres a hard shoulder but no paths down the sides...

Rich158

I would say the same for any vehicle doing about 15mph in the inside lane, what's lethal is the speed diferential.

All I can say is would you fancy riding up the M1 or the M25? if you can't see the problem with riding a slow moving bike on a high speed road that to all intents and purposes is a motorway then that's madness. Generally road speeds are a great deal slower on country roads, and you don't get HGV's driving at high speed on them.

nwallace

Most of the roads round me can be comfortably driven at the NSL, and in places free flowing overtakes are possible if the road is clear. They are all single carriageways, the only thing that would really put me off an NSL dual carriageway is the inevitable level of traffic flow. But traffic flow also puts me off some of the single carriageway round here.

If I had a choice between a packed solid S2 and a deserted D4 + Hard Shoulder and could see the state of both roads at point of commitment which do you think I would use?

Of course living in Zone 9 of the road network I know nothing about the A2s traffic flow. Though I did know it had a wide section with Hard Shoulders, does that section not have pedestrian, cycle and horse restrictions? (some are known as a special road the A702 is one or can be done by specific restrictions)

always_tyred

Drivers adopt a different mindset on motorway type roads. There is far less expectation that a bike will appear (or a tractor or other slow moving vehicle). If there's an alternative option, its barking mad to assert your cyclist's right to be there.

But I've found myself on roads like the A38 in the past (exploring, wrong turn, that sort of thing) . Although the road is a dual carriageway, with a narrow shoulder, it is perfectly allowable to be there (TT's are run along it) but I couldn't have wanted to be anywhere less on some parts.

ITs a common sense challenge, but if the cyclist has found themselves the wrong side of the armco, what should they do? ITs not unknown for cycling facilities to be poorly marked and easy to miss the entrance to, after all.

Specialized Needs

downfader wrote:

just had a look on google's satelite pics of it. Looks like a motorway to me??? Theres a hard shoulder but no paths down the sides...

The Google satellite image is a couple of years out of date. The road works visible have now completed, putting in flyovers between the Dartford Crossing and the coast.

I personally don't know whether there are horse rider/bike/farm vehicle restrictions, but tractors are not uncommon on a nearby section of the A2. Every route to where Rich158 is describing I would describe as a motorway-equivalent - i.e. 3+ lane carriageway. Even if it were technically legal to ride on that section, I would say the weight of traffic and the number of lorries on that route (lots of cross-channel traffic) would make cycling there dangerous. Especially if it was uphill as it is quite long and sustained and doesn't seem a shallow slope.

cougie

Cars and HGVs regularly pass within a foot of me at 50-60mph on normal roads ?

Dont know the A2 myself, but to wish harm on a cyclist seems a bit nasty ?

Rich158

I'm not being nasty, removing people from the gene pool is just an expression I have picked up from the Darwin awards for acts of mind numbing stupidity.

I have taken wrong turns myself, and ended up on the A10 before now, but stuck to the hard shoulder and exited the road at the earliest opportunity. The guy I saw must have cycled past the entrance to the cycle lane and was entering one of the most dangerous stretches of the A2. There are regular accidents here that are well documented in the local press, and numerous fatalities, hence the improvements that have taken place over the last 5 years or so. It's still a bloody dangerous section though as the number of accidents would indicate, and common sense would dictate that in this situation using the hard shoulder would be the sensible option, irrespective of whether legally you're allowed to be there or not.

What irritates me is that these acts of stupidity not only put the cyclist/driver/whoever at risk, but also the people arround them. The poor sod who ends up involved in a fatal accident through someone elses stupidity has to live with the fact that they killed someone

16simon

I spend most of my weekends during the summer riding in the slow lane of dual carriageways with traffic passing at 60mph.... hope I don't get removed from the gene pool :shock:

Feltup

I use the A404 in the summer months which is a dual carriageway with no hard shoulder. It is pretty scary tbh but cuts my journey to work by a 1/3. Vans are the worst for leaving you no room and I have a few cars come very close especially mums on the school run but trucks on the whole have been very well driven. I do keep above 20mph on it which helps a little.

OldSkoolKona

nwallace wrote:

Don't see the problem,

The Hard Shoulder is not the road

The Inside lane (i presume the left hand) is all right and being dual carriageway means overtaking vehicles don't have to enter a lane containing traffic coming in the opposite direction.

+1

Rich158

Fair enough, there are several people who see no problem in cycling on a dual carriageway :shock: Personally I would never intentionally ride on a dual carriageway because the speed diferential between me and other traffic makes me a hazard to myself as well as other road users.

The one question I have in relation to the original incident is, how many of you would cycle along the M25 in the middle of rush hour? Because that's akin to what this lunatic was doing.

singlespeedexplosif

The one question I have in relation to the original incident is, how many of you would cycle along the M25 in the middle of rush hour?

I wouldn't, as that's illegal.
As with others, I regularly ride on dual carriageways in 70mph sections. And I regularly ride on single lane country roads where people pay no attention to the speed limit.

always_tyred

There are dual carriageways and there are dual carriageways. Its really difficult to tell quite how bad this one is without local knowledge.

Personally, I think that just because people can and do use them, it doesn't mean that they are safe. I've seen time trials on stretches of the A38 that are accident black spots. A carboard sign saying "bike race" really doesn't help. I've seen the same thing just outside of Middlesbrough and the road layout and traffic levels made it safe.

Really, if its not a busy road, there aren't blind crests, and you don't actually have to ride on the inside lane, it ought to be safe - although lets face it, dual carriageways aren't very rewarding and alternatives are almost always available with a little imagination.

Rich158

I agree with AT, it does depend upon the road, an empty dual carriageway could be just as safe as any other road, but they are a dual carriageway for a reason, I've yet to drive on one that isn't fast flowing and busy.

The point relating to time trials is a good one. A friend of my parents was killed participating in a time trial on a dual carriageway in Essex several years ago, and to see the effect his death had upon his family was truly devastating. Why the organisers persist in this potentially dangerous practice is beyond me.

I have to say I'm truly shocked how many people consider it acceptable to ride along a dual carriageway, where the average speed is closer to 70mph, than the 20-30mph that most of us can manage.

cougie

Sometimes there is very little option. The local cycling cafe to us is on a dual carriageway.

Clearly I'll avoid the faster roads if I can - but I cant keep off them completely.

SBezza

I must admit I wouldn't cycle on the A2, especially at rush hour, it is a nightmare in a car, but saying that there are no restrictions, and you are allowed to use it. I would have used the cycle path, unless using it makes no sense as to where you are going.

As to cycling on the roads, people have said to me why do I use the A26 and the A228 to get to work rather than the country lanes, well the answer is, people still drive over the speed limit, and a straight road is safer IMO opinion that a twisty lane, where the person driving might only see me at the last minute, after coming around a bend too fast.

One of my work colleagues stated the other day, that down a new stretch of dual carriageway (A228 near Kings Hill), he saw a cyclist riding down it and thought it was dangerous, and why not use the cycle path on the other side. I did counter that the road is only a 50, and the cycle path only goes down half way, what if the person needed to get down nearer the end of the dual carriageway. There are reason as to why people use the road system rather than a cycle path.

As to people getting killed when doing TT on dual carriageways, people get killed on country roads as well, it isn't always more dangerous.

cjw

Rich158 wrote:

The one question I have in relation to the original incident is, how many of you would cycle along the M25 in the middle of rush hour? Because that's akin to what this lunatic was doing.

I wouldn't as it is illegal, but it would be perfectly safe to do so. The M25 anytime between about 7:00 and 10:00 would be quite pleasant as the cars are doing no more than 10 - 15 mph

Specialized Needs

Just to clarify - perhaps Rich158 could provide a photo of the part he is talking about?

However, if my reading of his description is correct, and with some local knowledge, this is a 4 lane section of road, where a major 3 lane 'A' road with heavy rush hour (and other times) traffic - including a generous proportion of UK and non-UK lorries - merges with a slip road coming direct from what is effectively the M25. It is the major lorry route to the Channel Tunnel and Channel ports. The 'inside' lane, is actually a filter in/out lane that runs between junctions. So the choice is either to stay out in lane 2 for a mile or so with traffic undertaking you, or 'merge' into the inside lane, jostling with the cars who are pulling in and out of that lane, then possibly (if he/she was not coming off at Bluewater) at the next junction cutting back out to lane 2, pulling back into the 'filter' lane after the junction. That stretch of road is noticeably uphill for over a mile and so lorries tend not to be able to pull out, but can usually sustain 50-55mph.

Added to this, yesterday evening the roads around here were quite damp, with spray coming up onto the windscreen, and it was likely after dark...

I'm not debating whether the cyclist was in the right or not; he/she might well have held the moral and legal high ground. However, neither that, nor an additional £1,000,000 would encourage me to copy him/her. Discretion etc...

Mrs_Ragbrutty

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

The one question I have in relation to the original incident is, how many of you would cycle along the M25 in the middle of rush hour?

I wouldn't, as that's illegal.
As with others, I regularly ride on dual carriageways in 70mph sections. And I regularly ride on single lane country roads where people pay no attention to the speed limit.

Ditto.
If I didn't ride on duel carriage ways I'd never get anywhere. I actually find them safer than some of the counry lane alternatives.

Gazzaputt

Using the A2 regularly I have seen the 2 same cyclists using it.

One I have seen at the Falconwood end where there is a massive hard shoulder so is fine although I have seen him cycling to the pinch point at Danson turn off which is dangerous as he crosses a filter lane to continue along the A2.

The other must be the same guy Rich saw at the same location.

Sorry he must be short of a few marbles or wants out of this world.

Yes it is an 'A' road but as Dunce describes this part is where the M25 merges and traffic can be travelling at 70mph+ and they aren't paying great attention to what is in front as they all want to pull out onto the A2 although there is a filter lane to use. I'm sure now the works have been completed this stretch of road may be reclassified as an motorway.

lost_in_thought

I'm with Rich - if there's a massive hard shoulder I can't see why you would ride in the road.

And I never ride on big fast A roads unless it is completely unavoidable, which it almost never is. At least on a country lane people are not able to go as fast, they're very windy round my way.

Taking the long way round is more fun anyway!

always_tyred

lost_in_thought wrote:

I'm with Rich - if there's a massive hard shoulder I can't see why you would ride in the road.

And I never ride on big fast A roads unless it is completely unavoidable, which it almost never is. At least on a country lane people are not able to go as fast, they're very windy round my way.

Taking the long way round is more fun anyway!

As my road rash is currently reminding me, this can be a false sense of security.

Per mile travelled, you are more likely to have a crash (in any vehicle?) on country roads, followed by urban roads, followed by dual carriageways.

Its just that far fewer miles are travelled on country roads.

rhext

Even if it were legal, I wouldn't ride on a motorway and I wouldn't ride on a triple-carriageway A road which resembled one in all but name. When the traffic's flowing, people simply don't expect to encounter slow-moving vehicles on those sort of roads. If you see a tail-light, you automatically expect it to be moving at 70+ miles an hour unless it's accompanied by a sea of other brake lights. So looking at it from the driver's point of view: you see a tail light you probably want to overtake, you check your mirrors assuming you have a few seconds to move out, and the next thing you know you've got a cyclist stuck in your bumper.

Mind you, I have been known to cycle down a dual carriageway with a cycleway next to it, on the grounds that the cycleway is strewn with broken glass and interrupted every 50 meters with feeder roads (and therefore useless to all intents and purposes).

Simonb256

I'll bite.

Pretty much 99% of my commute is on single or dual carriageways.
Around 50% of this is NSL.

For the past three years I have cycled on dual carriageways and never had a problem with traffic. (I have had a couple of accidents but they were arguably my fault and i learnt from them).

A 'triple carriageway' is something that makes me nervous and I try to get off it as soon as possible, or even anything that resembles a motorway. Though I have done sections of the A5 and not felt too uncomfortable, though i accidently ended up on the blackcountry route and promptly sh*t myself and jumped off at the next junction.

nwallace

<pedant>
triple carriageway? interesting concept. is that a dual carriageway with a tidal flow isolated carriageway?
I presume you mean a 3 lane carriageway
</pedant>


The road round here that I am lest likely to use is probably the tamest looking A road in the area on the map, is the road between Forgan Roundabout and St Michaels, it takes all of the commuter traffic between Dundee and St Andrews/Cupar. The section between St Michaels and Leuchars I do use and is by far the busiest and least comfortable. That said I've never cycled up the NSL Dual carriageway between the Tay Road Bridge and Forgan (A92) but regularly used Dual carriageways in Dundee.

Specialized Needs

A quick search of YouTube for a video only unearthed the following - which is the opposite way along the A2, but gives an idea of the set up - the section mentioned previously in the thread is the opposite side of the road between 7mins into the video and the end of the video - the road layout is similar (except the inside lane is no longer coned off and the junctions are closer together and busier). Traffic seems quite light on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ8VODojh6E

aracer

Rich158 wrote:

What irritates me is that these acts of stupidity not only put the cyclist/driver/whoever at risk, but also the people arround them. The poor sod who ends up involved in a fatal accident through someone elses stupidity has to live with the fact that they killed someone

So you'd feel sympathy for the driver who through their mistake/bad driving killed somebody, because the person they killed was being irresponsible by riding on a road with lots of bad drivers likely to kill them?

zanes

aracer wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

What irritates me is that these acts of stupidity not only put the cyclist/driver/whoever at risk, but also the people arround them. The poor sod who ends up involved in a fatal accident through someone elses stupidity has to live with the fact that they killed someone

So you'd feel sympathy for the driver who through their mistake/bad driving killed somebody, because the person they killed was being irresponsible by riding on a road with lots of bad drivers likely to kill them?]

Yes, because I make mistakes out on the road on my bike, and in the car. As does everyone else.


Waits for the inevitable "I don't, been riding x years, yadda, dadda" from someone