Finally some new legislation

Rich158

Just found this article on the main website

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/bus-and-lorry-drivers-to-get-cycle-safety-training-19190

It's nice to see that at least one council is taking cyclists safety seriously, as are the government by passing legislation for all vehicles over 3.5 tons be fitted with blind spot mirrors, and undergo annual tests to ensure they comply with the law.

I know these are only little victories, but hopefully they pave the way for cyclists to be taken seriously as vulnerable road users

I think it does however place an extra emphasis on the need for cyclists to act responsibly on the road, or these victories will be in vain.

always_tyred

Interesting related article on an American based website:-

http://www.velonews.com/article/86431/legally-speaking-with-bob-mionske---turning-with-a-blind-eye

Jamey

Rich158 wrote:

I think it does however place an extra emphasis on the need for cyclists to act responsibly on the road, or these victories will be in vain.

Why? We're not going to have our present taken away for being naughty.

People who break the law are still protected by the law.

If someone commits murder it doesn't mean you're allowed to murder them, so if a cyclist jumps a red light it doesn't mean councils can revoke any cycle safety laws, however recently passed.

Cyclists should have been obeying laws before this and they should continue to obey laws after this. It doesn't place any extra emphasis on that at all.

_Brun_

While undoubtedly positive steps, I hope they don't make anyone think that cycling up the inside of an HGV is ok becase the driver should be able to see them.

lost_in_thought

I know I'm being an horrendous pedant but....

bikeradar article wrote:

More than half of all fatal cycling accidents on the English capital's roads involve good vehicles.

Just imagine what the evil ones do....

sorry.

spen666

Rich158 wrote:

Just found this article on the main website

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/bus-and-lorry-drivers-to-get-cycle-safety-training-19190

It's nice to see that at least one council is taking cyclists safety seriously, as are the government by passing legislation for all vehicles over 3.5 tons be fitted with blind spot mirrors, and undergo annual tests to ensure they comply with the law.

I know these are only little victories, but hopefully they pave the way for cyclists to be taken seriously as vulnerable road users

I think it does however place an extra emphasis on the need for cyclists to act responsibly on the road, or these victories will be in vain.

Is this the same piece of legislation as someone posted about on here yesterday or is this another piece of (hopefully) helpful legislation for vulnerable road users

always_tyred

_Brun_ wrote:

While undoubtedly positive steps, I hope they don't make anyone think that cycling up the inside of an HGV is ok becase the driver should be able to see them.

From following this forum, my impression is that although some accidents are cause by cyclists undertaking HGV's, others are caused by cyclists being left hooked whilst being overtaken by HGV's. Hopefully the blind-spot mirrors are targeted at that type of incident.

spen666

Always Tyred wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

While undoubtedly positive steps, I hope they don't make anyone think that cycling up the inside of an HGV is ok becase the driver should be able to see them.

From following this forum, my impression is that although some accidents are cause by cyclists undertaking HGV's, others are caused by cyclists being left hooked whilst being overtaken by HGV's. Hopefully the blind-spot mirrors are targeted at that type of incident.

I'm not sure this will help the situation you described 2nd


Clearly, it may help in the 1st instance, but only IF the driver uses said mirrors.


I can't see how the mirror will help the left hooking where vehicle over takes cyclist. The driver is more likely to see cyclist in front of them, than during the left hook.

The mirrors however, even if I am right about the 2nd incident, are not a negative to safety and even if only help slightly are better than nothing

always_tyred

spen666 wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

While undoubtedly positive steps, I hope they don't make anyone think that cycling up the inside of an HGV is ok becase the driver should be able to see them.

From following this forum, my impression is that although some accidents are cause by cyclists undertaking HGV's, others are caused by cyclists being left hooked whilst being overtaken by HGV's. Hopefully the blind-spot mirrors are targeted at that type of incident.

I'm not sure this will help the situation you described 2nd

Clearly, it may help in the 1st instance, but only IF the driver uses said mirrors.

I can't see how the mirror will help the left hooking where vehicle over takes cyclist. The driver is more likely to see cyclist in front of them, than during the left hook.

The mirrors however, even if I am right about the 2nd incident, are not a negative to safety and even if only help slightly are better than nothing

The relative position of the HGV and the cyclist is the same in both situations, therefore It will help equally in both situations, if the driver uses the mirrors.

It is incomprehensible to most cyclists that a driver should see a cyclist as they are about to overtake them (evidenced by the fact that the driver steers around them), yet forget them seconds later as they turn across their path.

Yet, it does happen.

Is the driver more or less likely to use their mirror in the first or second scenario? I have no idea, to be honest. However, if the mirrors aren't there, they definitely won't see a cyclist in their blind spot. Additionally, the fact that there is a piece of safety equipment that they look at many times a day that is specifically there because of cycle safety is itself a tool to raise awareness that a cyclist MIGHT be there.

spen666

Always Tyred wrote:

....
The relative position of the HGV and the cyclist is the same in both situations, therefore It will help equally in both situations, if the driver uses the mirrors.

It is incomprehensible to most cyclists that a driver should see a cyclist as they are about to overtake them (evidenced by the fact that the driver steers around them), yet forget them seconds later as they turn across their path.

Yet, it does happen.

Is the driver more or less likely to use their mirror in the first or second scenario? I have no idea, to be honest. However, if the mirrors aren't there, they definitely won't see a cyclist in their blind spot. Additionally, the fact that there is a piece of safety equipment that they look at many times a day that is specifically there because of cycle safety is itself a tool to raise awareness that a cyclist MIGHT be there.

I'm not sure we are in disagreement on the point that this is a good idea in principle and in practice.



I would be suprised if the driver of the moving vehicle uses his left hand mirror before turning left. I think it is more likely that he would use it when moving off from stationary- if at all.

always_tyred

spen666 wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

....
The relative position of the HGV and the cyclist is the same in both situations, therefore It will help equally in both situations, if the driver uses the mirrors.

It is incomprehensible to most cyclists that a driver should see a cyclist as they are about to overtake them (evidenced by the fact that the driver steers around them), yet forget them seconds later as they turn across their path.

Yet, it does happen.

Is the driver more or less likely to use their mirror in the first or second scenario? I have no idea, to be honest. However, if the mirrors aren't there, they definitely won't see a cyclist in their blind spot. Additionally, the fact that there is a piece of safety equipment that they look at many times a day that is specifically there because of cycle safety is itself a tool to raise awareness that a cyclist MIGHT be there.

I'm not sure we are in disagreement on the point that this is a good idea in principle and in practice.



I would be suprised if the driver of the moving vehicle uses his left hand mirror before turning left. I think it is more likely that he would use it when moving off from stationary- if at all.

I think you are right, but it is a start and at least in the short term having a new mirror installed may draw attention to the issue.

Bassjunkieuk

I'd have to agree with Spen here, whilst I fully welcome any additional steps being taken to help with cyclist safety the mirrors are very much reliant on the driver of the lorry using them.

In an overtaking situation the lorry driver should have seen the cyclist ahead of them and hopefully take steps to leave them enough room when overtaking so they don't hook them.

In instances where a cyclist comes up the inside of a lorry the mirrors would be more useful as they could be the only way the driver is aware the cyclist is there at all.

I do remember seeing an item once on the telly I believe about a company of cement trucks (I think) that had proximity sensors fitted down the left side that gave an audible warning in the cab if they detected someone alongside the vehicle and even showed approximately how far along they where on a display on the dash, IMO these would be a much better solution then mirrors. I'm not saying they should replace mirrors and good driving behaviour but accidents can happen to anyone.

spen666

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

....I do remember seeing an item once on the telly I believe about a company of cement trucks (I think) that had proximity sensors fitted down the left side that gave an audible warning in the cab if they detected someone alongside the vehicle and even showed approximately how far along they where on a display on the dash, IMO these would be a much better solution then mirrors. I'm not saying they should replace mirrors and good driving behaviour but accidents can happen to anyone.

CEMEX is I think the company