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Hit and Run - insurance claim possible?

always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
edited March 2009 in Commuting chat
So, I got knocked off by someone at the weekend in a road rage incident.

How much information / proof do you need to make a claim to the general insurance fund that people have mentioned?

I was on an A-road about 10-15 miles from town and a farmer piles tried to overtake on a blind bend/crest in his manly 4x4. He nearly had a head on with a car coming the opposite direction and nearly drove right through me as he swerved back in (I heard him lock up and got a good look over my shoulder at the flies on his grill).

I did the, point to my head "what are you thinking?", signal back to the driver and for this he thought I should be executed. I probably could have got away without riling him further, but I had just nearly been ploughed through - to the extent that I'd been making preparations to bale from the bike onto the verge during the first incident - and the blood was pumping.

He came past, attempted to shout abuse (his window was down but because of the weather and the speed I couldn't hear anything) and them side swiped me.

I made a 999 call (to which they responsed after about 50 minutes, by which time he might as well have been in Fife, and by which time I actually had mild hypothermia) and I gave the police descriptions (colour, make, probable models) of both vehicles, but no number plates. The police drove up a few farm tracks for about 45 minutes and then gave up and simply circulated the details to other officers (to add to the list of other vehicles they have no hope of remembering). I know this becuase about 5 minutes after I got home I got the call to essentially tell me that their extensive efforts were in vain and please could they have a list of my injuries and property damage (I told them they could wait for this, because I'd just been in an accident :roll: ). To my knowledge their efforts to trace the driver who had to stop and swerve to avoid the head on has been limited to waiting until they contact the police. Great.

There were no witnesses to the hit and run itself.

I have a few hundred pounds' damage to clothing and bike and, although I am luckily merely bruised, scratched and annoyed.
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  • andy83andy83 Posts: 1,558
    not sure on where you stand but just wanted to say what an [email protected]$e this bloke was and glad you not too badly hurt

    i dread the day when i have a bad accident, need to get that public liability insurance sorted asap
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    andy83 wrote:
    not sure on where you stand but just wanted to say what an [email protected]$e this bloke was and glad you not too badly hurt

    i dread the day when i have a bad accident, need to get that public liability insurance sorted asap
    I have thought about insurance, however, even with this accident at approx 20 mph, I don't think I'll have cleared any normal excess. My pension has life insurance.

    I wonder if I do make a claim, does it get attributed to me CAR insurance?
  • LittigatorLittigator Posts: 1,262
    Mate that's bad luck. Glad to hear it wasn't more serious although damage to your bike and kit is a major pain.

    You may be able to apply to the police to get a payment from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board if no insurance covers it. Worth asking them.

    And just keep your fingers crossed that the Karma Fairries will pay the tw*t a visit some time in the near future.
    Roadie FCN: 3

    Fixed FCN: 6
  • blackworxblackworx Posts: 123
    Wow, just wow. That kind of behaviour sends shivers down my spine. Unlucky you didn't get his plate, but glad you're still in one piece. I don't have a scoob about the insurance thing, sorry.
    Trek XO1
    FCN4
  • prawnyprawny Posts: 5,426
    If the rozzers track the guy down you can claim under his third party insurance. The only way to claim for your own damage is under your home insurance, you normally have to specify bikes though I'd give your insurance company claims line a call.

    Oh unless you've got a seperate policy on your bike through E&L or someone similar
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    Sorry to hear about that Always!

    You can find all you need to know on the Motor Insurers Bureau web site. You can make a claim as an individual, or get a solicitor to do it for you.

    I was hit by a "travellers" bus several years ago, I was in my car, got a whiplash injury. My car insurance had a legal policy and they contacted me asking to help, so my solicitor dealt with everything. There were no witnesses, the bus left the scene and was never apprehended. It took about a year, I had to see an Orthopaedic Consultant for a report, the MIB then offered £2500, my solicitor said no and they came back with £4000 which we accepted.

    This has no relationship to your own car insurance (other than that you are a contributor to this scheme by virtue of buying car insurance).
  • zaneszanes Posts: 563
    Could one of the mods make a sticky with the MIB details in it?
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    I'm pretty sure that the home insurance covers theft of the bike but specifically excludes RTA's (like all insurance policies, the most likely events that one might wish to be covered for are specifically excluded).

    Is there not a general insurance fund to which one can make claims for, for example, uninsured driver incidents? Or is that the CICB that Littigator referred to above?

    EDIT- thanks AB, you posted that as I was writing.
  • I think the "Insurance Fund" only covers personal injury not damage to your vehicle.
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    I think the "Insurance Fund" only covers personal injury not damage to your vehicle.
    I'd better ham it up a bit then.

    SEVERE road rash. DEEP bruising to knee, elbow, shoulder and forearm. AWFUL whiplash and DEBILITATING back pain.

    In seriousness, I'd better get myself a GP's appointment I guess.
  • don_dondon_don Posts: 1,007
    How depressing to hear that what seems tantamount to attempted murder (OK slight exaggeration maybe) can warrant so little action :(

    To be fair, I'm not sure what much else the Plod could do initially, but a 50 minute wait is a pretty poor response time.

    I don't want to start the head camera argument again, but I must admit that when I hear about things like this I am tempted to buy one.

    I hope you are OK AT, and I hope the evil censored that hit you gets his come-uppance one day.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Firstly

    The CICA scheme only covers victims of crimes of violence - it is rare for motoring incidents to be covered- not impossible though.

    However be aware the CICA scheme will not pay out if they say you have contributed to incident ( there are other exclusions re your character etc). Here your version would be sufficient for them to refuse you a pay out.

    RE MIB- there are 2 schemes- untraced driver ( your situation) and uninsured driver. The untraced driver scheme does not cover property damage- it only covers personal injury. so you cannot claim for damage to bike / clothing on the untraced drivers scheme
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  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    don_don wrote:
    How depressing to hear that what seems tantamount to attempted murder (OK slight exaggeration maybe) can warrant so little action :(

    To be fair, I'm not sure what much else the Plod could do initially, but a 50 minute wait is a pretty poor response time.

    .....


    To be fair to the police- what difference would it have made if they were there 10 minutes later instead of 50 mins? the offender would be well away by then. This would be a low priority call as there was little hope of capturing offender at the scene or nearby
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  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I think the "Insurance Fund" only covers personal injury not damage to your vehicle.
    This may have been true, but their own site says:

    "Collect as much documentary information as you can concerning your losses. MIB will also need details of any insurance policies which you hold which may cover those losses. If your vehicle has been damaged, try and get two estimates, but if the vehicle is not drivable one will be sufficient. Do not delay your claim to wait for estimates to arrive. MIB can arrange to have your vehicle inspected by an independent engineer if necessary.

    I think the issue is more that if you are in a car you more than likely are covered by comprehensive insurance so MIB don't cover it, whereas cover for personal injury may be limited or absent on such policies. In my case they paid the £4k only for injury, my own insurance paid the £3.5k to repair the car.
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    there is as damage to property excess of £300 i think.
  • ceecee Posts: 4,553
    yip. I made a claim against the MIB untraced drivers scheme. excess on property was £300 (so i got nothing), but did get an amount for personal injury.
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  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    spen666 wrote:
    Firstly

    The CICA scheme only covers victims of crimes of violence - it is rare for motoring incidents to be covered- not impossible though.

    However be aware the CICA scheme will not pay out if they say you have contributed to incident ( there are other exclusions re your character etc). Here your version would be sufficient for them to refuse you a pay out.

    RE MIB- there are 2 schemes- untraced driver ( your situation) and uninsured driver. The untraced driver scheme does not cover property damage- it only covers personal injury. so you cannot claim for damage to bike / clothing on the untraced drivers scheme

    For the untraced driver scheme - what are the requirements in terms of "personal injury"? I have photos of missing skin, but I assume that I can't self certify for whiplash and bruising and so forth.
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    alfablue wrote:
    I think the "Insurance Fund" only covers personal injury not damage to your vehicle.
    This may have been true, but their own site says:

    "Collect as much documentary information as you can concerning your losses. MIB will also need details of any insurance policies which you hold which may cover those losses. If your vehicle has been damaged, try and get two estimates, but if the vehicle is not drivable one will be sufficient. Do not delay your claim to wait for estimates to arrive. MIB can arrange to have your vehicle inspected by an independent engineer if necessary.

    I think the issue is more that if you are in a car you more than likely are covered by comprehensive insurance so MIB don't cover it, whereas cover for personal injury may be limited or absent on such policies. In my case they paid the £4k only for injury, my own insurance paid the £3.5k to repair the car.

    Cellophane and Spen are of course, more correct than I.

    Whilst the Untraced driver scheme will pay for property or vehicle damage, the vehicle still has to be identified. :roll:
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    cee wrote:
    yip. I made a claim against the MIB untraced drivers scheme. excess on property was £300 (so i got nothing), but did get an amount for personal injury.
    Very useful - given that my forks are bent, my wheel is bent (although I can probably re-true it myself) and my frame has instantaneously lost all residual value (its an old, lugged carbon frame) I bet I could exceed the excess.
  • LittigatorLittigator Posts: 1,262
    Indeed...it's amazing how expensive they can be to replace.
    Roadie FCN: 3

    Fixed FCN: 6
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    I think you are being mislead here by some posters. There is confusion it seems between the 2 #MIB schemes- they have different terms and different exclusions

    Cee is wrong in this case as he is quoting from the UNINSURED DRIVERS scheme- in your case it is not relevant as you cannot show the driver was uninsured. You are subject therefore to the UNTRACED DRIVERS scheme. You cannot identify the vehicle and therefore under the terms of the untraced drivers scheme you cannot claim for property damage.

    It is important to distinguish between UNINSURED drivers ( eg driving stolen vehicle etc) and UNTRACED DRIVERS- hit and run where vehicle is not usuallly traced. It will be rare for there to be an untraced driver, but the vehicle is identified. It will normally be an uninsured driver claim where vehicle is identifiable ( or under vehicle owner's policy)
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  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    From the website:

    The accident must be reported to the police within 5 days and a claim made within 9 months. It is a requirement that the vehicle causing the damage must be identified as a condition of being able to claim for property damage. Property claims are subject to a £300 excess.

    This suggests to me that I can claim for personal injury in the absence of vehicle identification.

    Interesting point of police behaviour - the car wot done the deed is somewhat common, to the extent that yesterday I saw one, with a trailer parked nearby, along the same road, and right after the accident I saw another one on the same road (about 5 miles away) with L plates on and with a towbar installed.

    I have no reason to suppose that either was involved - one being on a building site rather than a farm or stables, the other being someone's toy and not seeminly a working vehicle - but the police weren't able to find ANY vehicles matching the description and weren't interested in either of the ones I mentioned.

    Is this odd, incompetent, or what? Or is a vehicle in the same area fitting the same description insufficent cause for them to interview the owner?
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    edited January 2009
    From the website:

    The accident must be reported to the police within 5 days and a claim made within 9 months. It is a requirement that the vehicle causing the damage must be identified as a condition of being able to claim for property damage. Property claims are subject to a £300 excess.

    This suggests to me that I can claim for personal injury in the absence of vehicle identification......




    however if you read the full site and not selected quotes out of contextin their absence you will find the correct position.
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  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    Its okay Spen, he was saying he could make a personal injury, not property claim, in the absence of vehicle ID.
  • alex16zxalex16zx Posts: 153
    Suunds to me like AT isn't going to make a claim for property damage :?

    'This suggests to me that I can claim for personal injury.'

    Sounds like he's realised that without vehicle ID property damage claims can't be made.

    Or have I just read this all wrong?
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    spen666 wrote:
    From the website:

    The accident must be reported to the police within 5 days and a claim made within 9 months. It is a requirement that the vehicle causing the damage must be identified as a condition of being able to claim for property damage. Property claims are subject to a £300 excess.

    This suggests to me that I can claim for personal injury in the absence of vehicle identification......




    however if you read the full site and not selected quotes out of contextin their absence you will find the correct position.

    However, I am only a lawyer with many years experience of MIB claims AND have checked on the MIB regulations before posting my answers.


    go ahead- you clearly know better than me, but when your claim for property damage is rejected, don't bleat on here about the time you have wasted

    Pardon? I have posted something in relation to personal injury claims, sir.

    Its taken about 4 posts for you to become offensive, which is more than normal.

    Thank you for your advice, however please now desist from commenting further on MY incident, unless you can refrain from being such a poisonous little man.
  • Sorry to hear about that AT, what a b'stard!

    Get yourself to a GP ASAP and get that damaged neck, bruised ribs, tendon/ligament and muscle damage in your limbs looked at. It could well prevent you from working and cause you pain for months.

    I am sure that spen is right about the MIB, but it might not hurt to play the ignoramus and ring them up and ask about property damage. Make sure the call is recorded and get the name and reference number/whatever of the person you talk to.

    I'm sure you know the drill. ;)

    Glad to hear your injuries aren't life-threatening, sorry to hear about the bike.

    Furthermore, there can only be so many farmers driving that exact car... keep your eyes peeled.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    alfablue wrote:
    Its okay Spen, he was saying he could make a personal injury, not property claim, in the absence of vehicle ID.

    you may be right- quote howebver seemed to be re re property damage.

    TBH unless injuries are more than very minor, it is not worth pursuing claim in any event

    Dangerous motorists 1 vulnerable non motorists 0 ( YET AGAIN)
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  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    spen666 wrote:
    alfablue wrote:
    Its okay Spen, he was saying he could make a personal injury, not property claim, in the absence of vehicle ID.

    you may be right- quote howebver seemed to be re re property damage.

    TBH unless injuries are more than very minor, it is not worth pursuing claim in any event

    Dangerous motorists 1 vulnerable non motorists 0 ( YET AGAIN)
    I think the phrase you are looking for is "sorry, I didn't read the post carefully enough"
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    spen666 wrote:
    From the website:

    The accident must be reported to the police within 5 days and a claim made within 9 months. It is a requirement that the vehicle causing the damage must be identified as a condition of being able to claim for property damage. Property claims are subject to a £300 excess.

    This suggests to me that I can claim for personal injury in the absence of vehicle identification......



    however if you read the full site and not selected quotes out of contextin their absence you will find the correct position.

    However, I am only a lawyer with many years experience of MIB claims AND have checked on the MIB regulations before posting my answers.


    go ahead- you clearly know better than me, but when your claim for property damage is rejected, don't bleat on here about the time you have wasted

    Pardon? I have posted something in relation to personal injury claims, sir.

    Its taken about 4 posts for you to become offensive, which is more than normal.

    Thank you for your advice, however please now desist from commenting further on MY incident, unless you can refrain from being such a poisonous little man.



    Erm have I posted anything offensive?

    I think you will find I have simply said you know better than me?

    Is that offensive?


    Now howeever, calling someone a poisionous little man could however be called offensive


    AND I will not stop commenting on this incident whilst it is posted about on a PUBLIC forum. If you don't want people to post about it, then keep it to yourself or in private emails not on a public message board.

    Alternatively.....
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