Visibility in low sun

boy on bike

This morning, I and three mates went out for what was going to be a couple of hours pootling through the countryside. Ten minutes in we were heading down a long straight descent with the low morning sun behind us, when a car coming up the hill turned right, straight through the middle of us, causing 2 guys to go over the car.

Thankfully, they both walked out of casualty this afternoon with minor cuts. Bikes totalled.

Apparently we were rendered almost invisible by the sun behind us. We weren't in hi-vis. Would hi-vis clothing have helped in this situation? Or anything else?

Suggestions gratefully received! I'm thinking my wardrobe needs to become a whole lot louder to improve my chances of staying alive...

cjcp

Glad you and your mates are ok.

It's that sun-blindness which I doubt a hi-viz jacket wouldn't have prevented. Was the driver wearing sunglasses?

boy on bike

I don't think so.

ris

you were silhouetted against a low sun, so i doubt high-viz would have helped. that sort of glare is a nightmare for any road user, particularly if the road is wet as well.

if you want to take a lesson from the experience then you could try to remember it when you are heading into the sun on a car or bike and keep extra attention.

The Chingford Skinhead

ris wrote:

you were silhouetted against a low sun, so i doubt high-viz would have helped. that sort of glare is a nightmare for any road user, particularly if the road is wet as well.

if you want to take a lesson from the experience then you could try to remember it when you are heading into the sun on a car or bike and keep extra attention.

...and remember it when on your bike with the sun behind you too - expect any vehicle approaching to do the unexpected.

Really glad the three of you are ok.

cougie

Glad everyone is ok - driver entirely to blame - how can he drive properly if he cant see whats in his way ?
Not much you can do i think except bear it in mind and look out for idiot drivers. Hope he loses his licence.

Hell below zero !

Yes low winter sun and especially with WET roads, I am ultra aware while riding and choose my route so that the section of it where I'm riding into it is as shaded as possible by trees etc to lessen the risk as much as I can of a driver driving straight into the back of me.I much prefer cloudy days this time of year.

roger_merriman

lights can help but i'm not sure that a bike light would have enought. this said, the driver was 100% to blame driving where they are blinded is very dumb and careless to put it mildly.

Crapaud

boy on bike wrote:

... Apparently we were rendered almost invisible by the sun behind us. We weren't in hi-vis. Would hi-vis clothing have helped in this situation? Or anything else? ...

It's very possible that you were invisible.

Last year I was manouvering my car to park it. I couldn't see the plastic bollard with its reflective strip at the top, the kerb, the pavement build-out for a pinch point, a very large bush or the ~10yo boy. I didn't know that there was anything wrong until I heard the plastic bollard pop and bounce on the pavement.

I had a similar problem, twice a year, on my old commute. I was hit by a bus. My solution was to change my route to more of an arc so that only had a very short section where the the low sun could be a problem.

Glad you're all OK. Bikes can be replaced, people can't.

Feltup

I think low sun is one of the most dangerous conditions to be on the road in. Bikes and cars can disappear. One thing that does seem to help is a flashing front light as the flickering seems to attract the eye and even though you might not recognise what it is there is a warning signal in the brain that there is something there.

Glad you were all OK and hopefully everyone involved and everyone reading this will think twice about assuming it is clear because you can't see anyone coming.

p.s. low flying pilots do not ask the question "are there any power lines?" they ask "where are the power lines?"

iain_j

Glad you're all ok, low sun is a nightmare, i had a ride a couple of months ago and for the last hour i had the sun right in my eyes, and i was going in and out of shadows under trees. Shades made it much more bearable but couldn't see a damn thing going into the shadows. I was fully aware any cars coming up behind me would have the same problem.

alex16zx

Yes, once in my car I came close to hitting a horse - I was blinded by the sun but the horse+rider had just moved into a bit of the road fully covered by trees in front of me and as it was a dark horse/rider wearing dark clothing I simply did not see them until I was only a few metres behind them. Thankfully I was wary enough of the sun to be driving very slowly and reacted quickly enough for them seemingly not to notice how close I had come!

boy on bike

Thanks for all the comments. It is certainly one (another one...) of those things which makes you more cautious and more aware - got to be a good thing. I like the idea of using a flashing front light - I hadn't taken one that day going out for a mid-morning ride with clear skies...

Feltup

One other thing that can catch drivers eyes is lateral movement i.e. if you are travelling directly towards someone it is much harder for them to see you compared to if you have moved across their vision. If you know it is clear behind then moving out in to the road and back could be enough to make you visible.

My uncle was a very keen cyclist and used to say there is nothing like a good wobble to get a cars attention!

neil²

Greetings BoB!

You have a Fenix, I believe! If you put it on the fast flash mode, that goes at about 10Hz which is the flash frequency to which the eye is most sensitive.

As I mentioned to you last night, I had a very similar incident just before Christmas with 3 year-old in the child seat during the commute / nursery drop off. I now have my front light on flashy mode whenever I have her on the back.

Cheers! N²

boy on bike

N², I believe that the Fenix flashing mode, while undoubtedly very visible is technically illegal for road use due to the fast flash rate.... don't know if anyone can confirm or deny this?

don_don

Bob Holness asked me for directions once

ride_whenever

IIRC it is 1hz maximum flash rate.

But fenix aren't road legal anyway because the run time is too short.

neil²

Isn't the point that the sun is out... therefore wouldn't it be daytime

I thought that the legality problem with them was they have no lateral illumination and so you need a second light. For it to comply with BS6103-3 it must have some lateral illumination. It must also work for 30 mins per day, 5 days per week, 4 weeks on one set of batteries.

Fenix clearly fails according to the standard, if you want it as your only light at night.

However, you only need lights between sunset and sunrise according to:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071

I was also interested to read "Some cyclists like to fit extra lamps and reflectors, in addition to the approved ones, specified above. This is perfectly legal provided they are the correct colour and in an appropriate position. These optional lamps and reflectors do not have to comply with any standards, but it’s illegal to use some designs of lamp or reflector that have specific other uses. You must not, for instance, show a red light at the front, or a white light to the rear, or fit triangular-shaped rear reflectors on anything except a trailer."

Getting even more dull for a moment... if your light is sold as a bike light and is CE marked (which it must be :roll: , if it is being sold legally in Europe) then it must be legal according to EU trade laws. Fenix and Tesco crees are not sold as bike lights.... so they don't need to be road legal!

enough...

boy on bike

I stand corrected. And therefore agree that a Fenix on flash must be one of the single most obnoxious ways of getting yourself noticed

neil²

Totally! Would be worth using on the few days of the year when glare is a problem and you are cycling out of the sun.

of course... the real solution is to get a bike with knobbly tyres and go off-road


Anyway, how are the chums? Are they recovering ok?

boy on bike

yeah, both pretty good given the circs. Both have some face cuts which is a bit unpleasant, and the odd chipped tooth. However, when I spoke to one of 'em earlier he was surfing Wiggle for a new bike, so clearly not terminally shaken up by the whole ordeal...

hisoka

I'm glad to hear they are mostly ok it sounds. Chipped teeth, ergh. But very happy nothing more serious there.
Pass on a heal well from everyone here I think.

Nick6891

i dont think there is anything you could do to get him to have seen you, i mean really, whats brighter than the sun?

the driver should have been wearing sunglasses are going very slowly

Crapaud

Nick6891 wrote:

i dont think there is anything you could do to get him to have seen you, i mean really, whats brighter than the sun?

the driver should have been wearing sunglasses are going very slowly

Don't know, from the OP, whether sunglasses would have made any difference. Sometimes they can make it worse; dust, scratches and greasy fingerprints on glasses in most situations aren't a problem ... until the light strikes them in a particular way and you might as well be wearing a blindfold.