How does racing work?

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited January 2009 in Commuting chat
Ok not a commuting question and i was going to post this in the race forum but they scare me over there.

Tour of Ireland, Tour down under, Tour of Britain. Tour de france

Are they interlinked like some sort of champions league with the winners of the smaller tours being accepted Tour de France.

How does it all work?

Is winning a race like F1. There is the person who came first in the race then there is the overall victor of all the stages based on points collected throughout all the stages?

Explain so that my feeble brain can comprehend. Then if you have time could you explain how non-professional races work. - Like the ones I could enter if I lived another life....
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game

Comments

  • whyamihere
    whyamihere Posts: 7,708
    It's known as the UCI ProTour. There will be a better explanation than I can give on Wikipedia.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    How does it all work?

    They all take drugs and ride the route as fast as they can. :wink:

    Shortest total time in a stage race = overall winner
    I like bikes...

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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    whyamihere wrote:
    It's known as the UCI ProTour. There will be a better explanation than I can give on Wikipedia.

    I read up on it but all I could decipher was that the Grand Tours (what are Grand Tours and how are they significant to the grand scheme and season of road racing) didn't like UCI.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Grand Tours are 3 week bike races. At the moment there are only 3:
    TDF
    Giro d'Italia
    Vuelta a Espana

    Historically the UCI was a body just concerned with the regulations of the sport and the actual races (and their media rights) were owned by the event organisers. The UCI decided it wanted part of the huge revenue associated with TV rights to the events and started the ProTour with prestigious events (and some not so) forming part of the series. This didn't sit too pretty with the event owners as they saw the UCI making free money off their brands: cue a 5 year set of handbags
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    But how are they all interlinked.

    Does a pro team have to take part in the minor races to make the Grand Tours? Are there a limited number of spaces in the Grand Tours making entry into them truly competitive?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    If only. It's not a meritocracy. The ProTour is license based. Pay a certain amount to the UCI for a license, guarantee a size of squad and that you have monies to pay that squad for a certain amount of time regardless and you're in the ProTour (if there is room left in the closed shop). The ProTour was supposed to guarantee entry into the sport's monument events (certain one day classics, the Grand Tours etc). That was a bone of contention with the organisers who wanted more freedom in who they invited (there were 20 ProTour teams to start with which pretty much filled the start list for any event). Also, in theory, every ProTour team must enter every ProTour event whether they want to or not

    Beneath(?) the ProTour level there are Continental teams for each continent. There are many non-ProTour events where these teams can score points for their respective continent division. The most successful are likely to get invited as wildcard entries to the more prestigious events (and have their star riders poached by the ProTour teams)
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    But how are they all interlinked.

    Does a pro team have to take part in the minor races to make the Grand Tours? Are there a limited number of spaces in the Grand Tours making entry into them truly competitive?

    I've given up trying to work out who controls what - see Jon's post. Just watch the Spring Classics. Some awesome racing there.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    DDD,

    If you browse through the Race forum you might find your questions answered - particularly if you look at questions raised and answered around the time of the TdF (July).

    I suspect that, like me, a lot of people here know the answers to your question, but the energy needed to type them is beyond me at this time on a cold, wet Monday in January which also happens to be my first day back at work (oh joy) since Christmas.
  • DDD

    I am going to try and get my sack of a body over to the track (Hogg Hill) over at Hainault on Saturday for their winter season Cat4 race. Never done it before but I thought I would give it a go. SCR is good but I somehow feel I am fooling myself and I really are not as fit as I think I am.

    I imagine it is going to a rude wake up call

    I'll let you know how it goes.

    DD
    [1]Ribble winter special
    [2] Trek 5200 old style carbon
    [3] Frankensteins hybrid FCN 8
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    JonGinge wrote:
    If only. It's not a meritocracy. The ProTour is license based. Pay a certain amount to the UCI for a license, guarantee a size of squad and that you have monies to pay that squad for a certain amount of time regardless and you're in the ProTour (if there is room left in the closed shop). The ProTour was supposed to guarantee entry into the sport's monument events (certain one day classics, the Grand Tours etc). That was a bone of contention with the organisers who wanted more freedom in who they invited (there were 20 ProTour teams to start with which pretty much filled the start list for any event). Also, in theory, every ProTour team must enter every ProTour event whether they want to or not

    Beneath(?) the ProTour level there are Continental teams for each continent. There are many non-ProTour events where these teams can score points for their respective continent division. The most successful are likely to get invited as wildcard entries to the more prestigious events (and have their star riders poached by the ProTour teams)

    Thanks for the explanation.

    I guess I like watching it but beyond bragging and financial reward I don't understand how the cycling teams are competitve outside the immediate races. Example: If all Man Utd, Arsenal, Chealsea and Liverpool had to do was pay a license fee to play in the Champions League then the top four places in the Premiership wouldn't be competitve.

    If it was a case of each team had to gain a certain number of points to qualify (number of points accumilated from the smaller races) for the Grand Tours then that would be competitve and allow for smaller teams to breakthrough based on the talent of their riders and not their financial backing, ability to pay riders and a license fee. In my humble and maybe not informed enough opinion.
    CJCP wrote:
    Just watch the Spring Classics. Some awesome racing there.
    I'll look these up.

    Corrie, welcome back!
    DD wrote:
    DDD

    I am going to try and get my sack of a body over to the track (Hogg Hill) over at Hainault on Saturday for their winter season Cat4 race. Never done it before but I thought I would give it a go. SCR is good but I somehow feel I am fooling myself and I really are not as fit as I think I am.

    I imagine it is going to a rude wake up call

    I'll let you know how it goes.

    How do you get to enter these. My chance at becoming a Premiership Footballer is over.... but maybe..... cycling......
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    If it was a case of each team had to gain a certain number of points to qualify (number of points accumilated from the smaller races) for the Grand Tours then that would be competitve and allow for smaller teams to breakthrough based on the talent of their riders and not their financial backing, ability to pay riders and a license fee. In my humble and maybe not informed enough opinion.
    It kinda works that way, I think, but not in a formal way (corrections welcomed). Teams rack up UCI points in smaller events and get invites to larger events based on points and their exciting riders. It's entertainment after all. That's exactly how it worked for Barloworld in 2007 and Garmin/Chipotle in 2008. They got invites to the TDF based on early season results (and a bit of politics) and repaid the organisers with standout performances in the race.

    One of the main differences between cycling and football is that all (the team's) cycling money comes from sponsorship and the (roadside) spectators pay nothing to watch the racing. That made the ProTour (closed shop) very attractive to sponsors but (in my view and many others) was anti-competitive.

    As CJ says the classics are amazing to watch. Eurosport has coverage but you can get web feeds too :)
    EDIT: The race forum normally has threads for finding the best web feeds on the days of the major races:
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/UCI ... 74676.html
    www.cyclingnews.com normally has live text commentary as well.
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    How do you get to enter these. My chance at becoming a Premiership Footballer is over.... but maybe..... cycling......
    Depends on the organiser and event. Some you can just turn up, buy a day racing license and race (so long as your bike passes the scrutineers). Some you have to enter the series and have a full BC racing license.
    I meant to have a crack at some road racing last year but never got around to it (a badly timed RTA didn't help). Maybe this year...
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • rjeffroy
    rjeffroy Posts: 638
    How do you get to enter these. My chance at becoming a Premiership Footballer is over.... but maybe..... cycling......

    I think you can just turn up and enter. If you don't have a race licence you can get a day licence (although this means that if you get a top 10 position you won't be able to keep your ranking points)

    Details:
    http://www.cycleweb.co.uk/newsite/n_hogser.htm

    Quite a tough circuit - if you have any doubts about your fitness then the hill will find you out...