Reach to hoods - should your arms be straight?

Gav888

Hi,

Sorry this is probably a basic question but should your arms be straight when reaching for the hoods as ive just got in from a ride and im not sure if my arms should be straight, or if im just not used to riding a road bike?

Im 5" 11 and have a 57 frame, there is approx 2" clearance between my privates and the top bar of the frame, and the seating position is good and comfy. I used this guide to setup my positioning on the bike - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FAl_5e7bIHk. Ive had to rotate the bars anti clockwise (in the pic) so the hoods are a bit closer to me, but it still feels like I need another inch or 2, or is it me?

As you can see from the pic of my bike, the bars are rotated round probably to far now as the drop part doesnt quite look right angle wise, so would a shorter stem solve the problem and rotate the bars clockwise again?



If the stem is the problem, ie too long, do I need a specific type of shorter stem?

Also, incase you are wondering, the pedals are the strap type but I removed the straps as I didnt get on with them, and the rear reflector is angled that way to hold up my saddle bag

redddraggon

My arms are normally bent, absorbs a bit of the road buzz that way.

softlad

judging by the way your bars and levers are angled up, it looks like you could probably use a stem about 10/20mm shorter - and perhaps a compact bar as well - as the drops on those look huge. It doesn't look as though you have much option to stack the stem a bit higher, but I think a shorter stem will make a big difference to your comfort...

fluff.

Hard to advise when people have all sorts of different shapes and preferences, but generally you want a slight arm bend on the hoods yes. From an aesthetic point of view your bike does look a bit stretched out at the front, I'd be tempted to get a cheap adjustable stem and play around with the position until you're happy. Don't forget you can move the levers around the bars too, though obviously you'll need to redo the tape for this.

Gary D

Gav,
Firstly, as fluff. says, it is almost impossible to diagnose or advise on set-up and positioning just by seeing a picture of your bike. Even with a picture of you actually sat on the bike it would be difficult.

Secondly, yes, it is generally considered better to have a slight bend in your arms.

From the brief details you have given, I would guess you have fairly long legs relative to your body? I make that assumption based on my own dimensions. I am 6' 11/2" and have a 58cm frame with a slightly sloping top tube like yours. My tackle doesn't clear by anywhere near 2". However, I am longer in the body and shorter in the leg.
The point I was rambling towards was - have you got the saddle set at the correct height? My seat post is protruding much more than yours shows even based on my "dimensions". When I went for a fitting, I was amazed at how far out the saddle was (too low). I used to suffer from aches in the shoulders because I rode with my arms straight. I assumed that this was because I was too stretched out and considered a shorter stem to compensate. (which appears to be what other posters are assuming) In actual fact, it was because I was too cramped up. My saddle was raised and moved back on the rails, therefore stretching me out more, and yet I now find it easier to ride with bent arms and am much more comfortable.

If you have the opportunity, get yourself fitted by an expert. It is money well spent I can assure you.

Hope this helps.

Gary.

Gav888

Thanks for the replys guys, I know its not easy giving this sort of advise, but any advise does help. I will have a look into shorter stems to see if I can find something that is more appropriate, and a small set of bars if I can, although at present I cannot use the drops as im still trying to get used to riding on the hoods.....

I did think of adjusting the hoods closer, but I didnt know how much hassle it would be to redo the tape, so left them as is. Also, just had a look at the adjustable stem, I dont think the height is the issue just the length, but thanks for suggesting it.

Gary D, sounds like im were you was regarding the stem, I used the video on YouTube to setup the seat height etc, and I have a slight bend in the knee at bottom stroke, and at 3 o'clock I can hang a piece of string from the bottom part of my knee and it does line up with the axle on the pedal, so I assumed that the seat was setup correctly and its only the reach to the bars, but I will look into getting myself setup properly to be sure. Also I just went out and messured my privates to frame and its 1" :oops:

I do have this niggling doubt that maybe I got the wrong size frame as the bike shop wasnt much help and based the size on the fact that I rode an Airlite 200 with a 58 frame and was comfortable on it.....

Lagavulin

Surely if you need to have the bars rotated in order to get comfortable (that is to say reach wise rather than just a comfortable hand position) then the reach is too great.
That looks like fairly lengthy stem (120/130mm?) so at least you've some room to shorten it.

Gav888

I should measure the stem really, where do you measure from?

Also, I just compared the bars on mine to my current dream bike, a Felt AR2, and mine are huge!! Just had a quick look and I didnt realise they were so cheap. Found these - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SYNTACE-RACELITE- ... 240%3A1318

Are they any good, and for measurements, were do I measure from to see how much smaller they are than mine? And things like bar tape, is that easy to replace?

Cost wise, I could probably get new bars, tape and stem for £40.

bill57

From your description of the problem, I think your frame is definitely on the big side. The saddle to bars drop is quite small, yet you are still stretched. A lot of modern frames seem to be designed this way, with a very long top tube (Ribble winter frames come to mind). This results in the rider needing a much smaller frame than their height would normally dictate.

Within reason, you can always make a frame fit, but it ends up not looking right. A slightly shorter stem, and perhaps a seatpost with no setback will help, but you run the risk of the bike looking a bit ungainly.

It's all Greg Lemond's fault of course.

Gav888

The next frame size down is 54, which is too small, so it had to be the 57, but I think a 56 would have been good, but then a 58 Airlite 200 fitted nicely. I guess different makes different sizes....

bill57

Years ago, frames were sized in half inch increments, so 54 to 57 is a heck of a jump, especially as it covers a large sector of the normal height range. With modern seatposts and headset spacers, it's probably better to err on the small side - or look to a different manufacturer who offers the correct size.

Gav888

Wish I had of known that when I bought it, ive only ridden it a few times, maybe the shop will change it for a 54?? yeah right!

BazookaMoor

Looking at the picture of your bike I'd say that the stem could be shortened by 20-30mm to give you a shorter reach to the hoods (90-100mm stem). Also take a look at compact handlebars like the FSA compact range. They have an entry level compact bar for about £20.00. Alot of new bikes in my LBS seem to be fitted with compact bars which give you a shorter reach to the hoods and make riding in the drops easier.

Gav888

BazookaMoor wrote:

Looking at the picture of your bike I'd say that the stem could be shortened by 20-30mm to give you a shorter reach to the hoods (90-100mm stem). Also take a look at compact handlebars like the FSA compact range. They have an entry level compact bar for about £20.00. Alot of new bikes in my LBS seem to be fitted with compact bars which give you a shorter reach to the hoods and make riding in the drops easier.

Thanks for the info BazookaMoor, looking at the compact bars the drop comes in much sooner, so these alone should reduce my reach by an inch or 2 to the hoods.

Is there any benefit in a compact over normal road bars? And when taping the bars, should you always put the tape over the hood base, or can the hoods sit on top of the tape so they can be adjusted when needed?

Cheers

alfablue

The hoods are designed to go over the tape (I don't think the tape will last too well if placed over the hoods). You may not be able to adjust them much though, as the tape will go quite close to the clamp around the bars. Best to try the position before fitting tape.

Doom

I would suggest you may want to move your pump mounting as well as it looks like it fouls the gear cables. Dropping your stem on the steerer also reduces your effective reach although too difficult to say if anything is the wrong size.

While a fitting session is the best solution it is both expensive and temporary as you age, put on/ lose weight, lose/ gain flexibility. No shop should have let you walk out without at least assisting with a basic set up. Find another shop and see if they can help.

Failing that there are lots of free resources for fitting on the web but beware it is not an exact science but they are good starting points. Try www.wrenchscience.com or www.competitvecyclist.com

good luck

Gav888

Doom wrote:

I would suggest you may want to move your pump mounting as well as it looks like it fouls the gear cables. Dropping your stem on the steerer also reduces your effective reach although too difficult to say if anything is the wrong size.

Thanks, I didnt know dropping the stem height would reduce the reach a bit, I will have a look at that today aswell. Im going to see if my MTB stem fits as that is shorter.

The pump is just ok, there is about a 1cm gap either side of the cable so just enough room, I didnt want it anywhere else as it spoils the looks saying that, the more I look at the pic those handlebars look way to big!!

softlad

Doom wrote:

Dropping your stem on the steerer also reduces your effective reach although too difficult to say if anything is the wrong size.

surely that would effectively increase the reach - not reduce it..?? It would certainly put you in to a lower riding position, which may not be ideal...

Kneesaway

I suggest you get yourself a proper Bike Fitting. There are a few dotted about. I've just been to Bikedynamics near Warwick. A bit pricy but I'm sure I'll save money in the long run. They seem far more concerned about getting your wrists straight and torso at the right angle.
Not been out for enough miles yet but I'm far more comfortable on the trainer.

Monty Dog

Elbows definitely need to be bent about 10 degrees - straight arms typically caused tension in the shoulders and neck and cause chronic pain in those areas. You bike pic does suggest that you might be at the limit for the size of frame - but a shorter stem and compact bar (FSA Omega) should be enough to bring the bars back enough to shorten your reach - you can't shorten reach by dropping the bars either! For beginners, there's nothing wrong with having the top of the bars level with the saddle either - it takes about 7 years to develop an effective cycling physiology - don't try and do it overnight.

Gav888

Monty Dog wrote:

Elbows definitely need to be bent about 10 degrees - straight arms typically caused tension in the shoulders and neck and cause chronic pain in those areas. You bike pic does suggest that you might be at the limit for the size of frame - but a shorter stem and compact bar (FSA Omega) should be enough to bring the bars back enough to shorten your reach - you can't shorten reach by dropping the bars either! For beginners, there's nothing wrong with having the top of the bars level with the saddle either - it takes about 7 years to develop an effective cycling physiology - don't try and do it overnight.

Thanks for the advise, at present ive flipped the stem (FYI is 120mm) so its upwards a bit and rechecked my seat adjustments and it does seem more comfy now although a little bit on the high side! I plan to do a few more runs out and see how it goes. Foot pain is becoming more of an issue now, but I believe that is because im using trainers and not proper cycling shoes, so researching them.

Is there any benefit to a compact bar, or is it more for comfort reasons?

simon_e

Flipped up stem should be more comfortable, but you may still benefit from a shorter stem and compact bars. Yes, those horns look rather big, and deep, and I'd suggest they aren't at the most natural angle (though others may disagree). Difficult to say unless you try different setups or get a bikefit. My elbows are bent more now that I've pulled the saddle forward, I prefer a good degree of bend in my arms when on the hoods rather than feel stretched out. After a long riding only my MTB it took a while to get back into something resembling a tuck on the drops or hoods.

Seat position fore-aft can make a difference, the rule of thumb is that a plumbline should fall from your kneecap to the pedal crank when the pedal's at 3 o'clock. As for saddle height, if it feels too high then notch it down and see how you go. Better to put it back up later than struggle now.

Your pump will cop all the muck/water/salt off the road where it is, shortening its life and possibly leaving you stranded.