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Tiagra and 105

mrdoofermrdoofer Posts: 71
edited January 2009 in Workshop
I've started to do my own repairs on my road bike which is currently equipped with Tiagra components (front and rear derailleurs, shifters, cassette, and hubs). Been thinking of upgrading piece by piece to 105, is this possible? Are the components interchangeable, if so is there a recommended order.

I almost changed the front derailleurs for a 105 but got put off by the blurb that the cage widths were different to accommodate a 10 speed chain.

My aim is to upgrade as parts become worn then transfer everything to a better frame when the time comes.

Thanks

Posts

  • John C.John C. Posts: 2,113
    I think ( there for I am) modern 105 is 10 speed and tiagra 9, so , do you really want 10 speed ? why ? If you upgrade to old 105 9 speed you can upgrade in any order., If you were to use a 10 speed chain which I know you can on 9 speed then I don't see a problem upgrading bit by bit.
    http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail
    Hills are just a matter of pace
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    You must fit shifters, cassette and chain together. The 105 shifters will not index on a 9sp cassette and vice versa. A 9sp chain is too wide for a 10sp cassette and will not run smoothly. As John C says you can get away with a 10sp chain on a 9sp cassette.
    I would change these items first and only change the mechs as they wear out. The front one will be OK for some time and would be the last thing on my list.
    105 brakes are reported to be better than Tiagra so may be the thing to change after the shifters etc.
    Chainset when it wears out or you can afford it. Forget changing hubs. Get a better set of wheels when you can. Keep the old ones for winter / muddy days.
    I don't know your time scale for this but it could be cheaper to just run what you have and save up for a new bike. Complete bikes are a lot cheaper than the sum of their parts especially if you wait for year end run out sales..
  • Steve ISteve I Posts: 428
    Why not just replace with Tiagra and avoid the 9/10 speed issues. There's remarkably little to dislike about Tiagra, 105 isn't really an upgrade in my opinion (I've used both). Besides, road components are very long lived compared to mtb bits. The only things you'll wear out quickly are the cassette and chain, which are regarded as consumables. You might eventually wear out chainrings and bottom bracket bearings after big mileages.
  • John C.John C. Posts: 2,113
    I must say I don't quite get this 10/11 speed block thing (but I'm an old git who isn't quite up to Lance's standard) The theme seems to be to do away with the granny ring and put the lower gearing on the back. Why ?
    A 10 speed 12-27 has the same spacing as a 12-25, a cynical view would be that 10 speed kit wears out faster, is more expensive so Mr Shimano/campagnola can make more money on the after sales. That said I appreciate 10 speed kit is lighter and for those who want the lightest go for it, but I don't know whether that upgrade would get me round The Fred or The Rydale Rumble that much faster. Now I've had a rant, the best upgrade you can get for your brakes would be a set of Koolstop pads http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Kool_ ... 300005952/
    I swear by these and they are well priced
    http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail
    Hills are just a matter of pace
  • It's just that since I've had my bike (2 Years) I've had to replace the rear mech, and front just recently. And a shifter which cut the gear cable. The rear mech actually sheared off around one of the hinges and took out the spokes on my back wheel. The front mech seized up recently.

    My bike gets used 5 days a week in all conditions (30 miles a day) so it gets quite a pounding. I don't agree with the reliability of Tiagra components, although the newly designed Tiagra front mech seems better constructed than my old one.

    Not moaning about the quality of Tiagra components this is just my experience of them.

    After changing so many of the components I just thought it might be in my interests to upgrade to 10 speed where I would have more choice of components.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Someone told me Tiagra is more or less in the middle and maybe the best wearing? Some people say the more expensive stuff (dura ace, ultegra etc..) is all lighter and less hard wearing to wears out quicker?
  • The 2007 Tiagra line is much better than the old 9 speed 105 so if that's what you're planning on doing, I wouldn't bother.
    I've used old 105 and Tiagra and new Tiagra. While the new 105 10 speed may lighter than the new Tiagra, Is it really worth buying a whole new groupset just for a 10 speed system?
  • John C.John C. Posts: 2,113
    mrdoofer wrote:
    It's just that since I've had my bike (2 Years) I've had to replace the rear mech, and front just recently. And a shifter which cut the gear cable. The rear mech actually sheared off around one of the hinges and took out the spokes on my back wheel. The front mech seized up recently.

    My bike gets used 5 days a week in all conditions (30 miles a day) so it gets quite a pounding. I don't agree with the reliability of Tiagra components, although the newly designed Tiagra front mech seems better constructed than my old one.

    Not moaning about the quality of Tiagra components this is just my experience of them.

    After changing so many of the components I just thought it might be in my interests to upgrade to 10 speed where I would have more choice of components.
    If this is a 5 day week bike stick with 9 speed and use the money you save to go towards another (maybe 10 speed ) weekend bike
    http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail
    Hills are just a matter of pace
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    edited December 2008
    I really don't know how some folks on here get through so much kit. My winter bike is still running the 9sp Dura-ace shifters, Ultegra mechs and hubs that I had on by best bike in 2000. The brakes are still on that bike which I now use as an 'iffy' day bike. I have only had to change the jockey wheels a couple of times.
    As regards 9sp and 10sp I have not noticed any real difference in durability. I am using Ultegra which I think is the best value group in the range.
    Mrdoofer. I would go with John C and get saving for a good bike for pleasure riding. Run the old one for commuting and bad weather. Just replace stuff as needed.
    I agree with him about the Koolstop block although the latest Shimano ones are much better than the old ones.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    John.T wrote:
    I really don't know how some folks on here get through so much kit. My winter bike is still running the 9sp Dura-ace shifters, Ultegra mechs and hubs that I had on by best bike in 2000. The brakes are still on that bike which I now use as an 'iffy' day bike. I have only had to change the jockey wheels a couple of times.
    As regards 9sp and 10sp I have not noticed any real difference in durability. I am using Ultegra which I think is the best value group in the range.
    Mrdoofer. I would go with John C and get saving for a good bike for pleasure riding. Run the old one for commuting and bad weather. Just replace stuff as needed.

    Maybe you are just lucky, I'm just unlucky and everyone else is just in between? :lol:

    I'm thinking of upgrading to a ultegra rear mech, jockey wheels gone, going for a 80mile ride around the wolds tomorrow, should hold out as round here in the York area my bike lasts MUCH longer.
  • John C.John C. Posts: 2,113
    :

    I'm thinking of upgrading to a ultegra rear mech, jockey wheels gone, going for a 80mile ride around the wolds tomorrow, should hold out as round here in the York area my bike lasts MUCH longer.[/quote]


    If your old mech is long reach, Can I have it :lol:
    http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail
    Hills are just a matter of pace
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    John C. wrote:
    :

    I'm thinking of upgrading to a ultegra rear mech, jockey wheels gone, going for a 80mile ride around the wolds tomorrow, should hold out as round here in the York area my bike lasts MUCH longer.

    If your old mech is long reach, Can I have it :lol:

    I don't think it is, the one on my commuter is though I think, I don't know when I'll upgrade but I'll be sure to contact you incase you still want it.

    check the pics in my sig, might be able to tell what mech they are?

    (better pic of main bike):
    img_Aether580.jpg

    commuter is the carrera in sig.
  • verlorenverloren Posts: 337
    You can still get (at least some) 9sp 105 components, and Ultegra for that matter. Given the amount you'd have to spend to convert completely to 10sp I'd save the money to go towards a new bike, and just replace the bits that actually need it. When I've done that I've tended to get Ultegra, as the difference between that and 105 cost-wise is pretty small (on eBay anyway)

    '09 Enigma Eclipse with SRAM.
    '10 Tifosi CK7 Audax Classic with assorted bits for the wet weather
    '08 Boardman Hybrid Comp for the very wet weather.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    70 quid on shifters, 120 on rear mech and cassette, should be all? My front mech is an Ultegra 10spd.
  • verlorenverloren Posts: 337
    Where can you get 10sp shifters for £70?

    '09 Enigma Eclipse with SRAM.
    '10 Tifosi CK7 Audax Classic with assorted bits for the wet weather
    '08 Boardman Hybrid Comp for the very wet weather.
  • Thanks, I think I might just save up for the new bike, and learn by maintaining/replacing the cheaper parts I have already. I was hoping to buy a frame and build it up myself.

    Regarding the destruction of parts, I would be interested to know the maintainance regimes/bike usage of those with parts that last forever. If I commute to work eveyday I leave at 8 and get in at 7, during the winter this leaves no light/time to clean the bike during the weak, only oil the chain and GT 85 parts, so the bike starts to take a beating. what is everyone else doing?
  • John.TJohn.T Posts: 3,698
    Mine is only leasure riding but in winter it is often 120+ miles between washes and it only gets a really good do after it gets blathered. A wash consists of a hose down then wash with car shampoo followed by WD40 on all pivots, chains etc to clear water. Then allowed to dry and given a good lube with Finnish Line Drylube. The chain gets a quick spray after most wet rides. A good do means the chain and drive get a thorough clean and lube. Hubs get stripped and regreased 2 or 3 times each winter.
    You can only do your best at the W/E so more wear is to be expected. I think it would be a good move to try to get another bike for pleasure and good weather commuting. Building one from scratch is usually about 30% dearer than buying complete. If you got a frame and moved bits over you would be stuck with the frame and a few worn bits and you would be wanting to upgrade those that are on the new frame.
    Riding a bike you like and is in perfect condition is very uplifting. I have had my Madone 5.2 for over a year now but still get a kick out of riding it. The Ribble is just a bike to get out on.
  • John C.John C. Posts: 2,113
    On hack bikes things do wear out faster, this I beleave is because you ride in conditions you would not ride your best bike, you don't clean a hack bike, well not much. This is why I think you should keep a hack bike 8 speed with cheap disposable parts, just keep the chain well oiled and keep an eye on all wear parts. Enjoy :)
    http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail
    Hills are just a matter of pace
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    verloren wrote:
    Where can you get 10sp shifters for £70?

    Try ebay I got my 9spd for 70.
  • verlorenverloren Posts: 337
    Fair enough, but I think the point here is about trading up to 10sp - I'd be very happy to get 10sp shifters for that :)

    '09 Enigma Eclipse with SRAM.
    '10 Tifosi CK7 Audax Classic with assorted bits for the wet weather
    '08 Boardman Hybrid Comp for the very wet weather.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I may be wrong IF 10spd Tiagra cost more than 9spd?
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    willhub wrote:
    I may be wrong IF 10spd Tiagra cost more than 9spd?

    Tiagra is 9sp, not 10. The point someone made about Tiagra being a longer lasting groupset than Dura Ace made me chuckle....
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    softlad wrote:
    willhub wrote:
    I may be wrong IF 10spd Tiagra cost more than 9spd?

    Tiagra is 9sp, not 10. The point someone made about Tiagra being a longer lasting groupset than Dura Ace made me chuckle....

    Was it me? If so you never looked at my properly. I suggest you go back and look, but read it this time and acknowledge I never said it, but said that someone told me this and I basically wonder if it was true.

    I never knew tiagra was only 9spd.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    willhub wrote:

    Was it me? If so you never looked at my properly. I suggest you go back and look, but read it this time and acknowledge I never said it, but said that someone told me this and I basically wonder if it was true.

    I never knew tiagra was only 9spd.

    you seem a little 'on edge' will - I know you didn't say it, but I presume you were relating the comments of someone that did..?? chill out, for fcks sake...
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I'm always on edge, it's just me.
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