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Confession. I nearly knocked over a cyclist yesterday.

DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited December 2008 in Commuting chat
My girlfriend had some terrible new yesterday, which resulted in me leaving work and driving (bike spokes still ropey) home rather assertively.

I got stuck in traffic at the top of Balham hill and decided to turn left onto a side road. I took the turn wide, but I indicated well in advance of the move. As I turned a cyclist (no helmet) came from nowhere and swerved around me I reckon I was inches from knocking him over and if not for a slam on the brakes, I'd have taken him down. He must have seen me turning and decided to chance it given his speed. But I felt terrible because my manouver was rushed.

I stopped apologised asked if he was ok. He swore, I carried on my journey to my girlfriend a little shaken.
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game

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  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 20,049
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    My girlfriend had some terrible new yesterday, which resulted in me leaving work and driving (bike spokes still ropey) home rather assertively.

    I got stuck in traffic at the top of Balham hill and decided to turn left onto a side road. I took the turn wide, but I indicated well in advance of the move. As I turned a cyclist (no helmet) came from nowhere and swerved around me I reckon I was inches from knocking him over and if not for a slam on the brakes, I'd have taken him down. He must have seen me turning and decided to chance it given his speed. But I felt terrible because my manouver was rushed.

    I stopped apologised asked if he was ok. He swore, I carried on my journey to my girlfriend a little shaken.

    what is it with you and knocking cyclist over, tut tut :P
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  • I don't understand, what direction was the cyclist travelling in, did you left-hook him?
  • snookssnooks Posts: 1,521
    Sorry to hear that mate.... :(

    You sure you're a cyclist? :):D:wink:

    So was he coming up on your left or right?

    You say you moved wide and he had to swerve to avoid you....so was he on your right? :?

    It sucks when you see the world from the other side of the fence, and you realise you've been an numpty driver. One reason why I'm quite forgiving on my bike. Everyone makes mistakes....just put yourself in the cyclists position...Inpatient driver almost takes him out...It's not nice to think of what could have happened, but no one was hurt, you'll become a better driver because of it, so learn from your mistakes.....

    Just don't do it again...for "it" see

    driving assertively "driving home rather assertively"
    rushing manouvers "I felt terrible because my manouver was rushed"
    Not keeping a good enough look out "came from nowhere"

    ps whether they are wearing a hat (which may or may not protect them in the event of an accident) is no indication of their cycling ability :wink:
    FCN:5, 8 & 9
    If I'm not riding I'm shooting http://grahamsnook.com
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  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    He was coming from my left as I was mid turn left.
    ps whether they are wearing a hat (which may or may not protect them in the event of an accident) is no indication of their cycling ability

    This is true. Wasn't trying to use the helmet as an excuse was actually thinking sh*t had I hit him.... which would have been my fault.


    I'm beating myself up because (i) I hate making mistakes (that don't do justice to my actual ability) (ii) I know what mistakes I was making and I was in a panic/rushing to get back home to my GF. To think that my flustered state could have impacted on someone elses life so dramatically bothers me from an internal ethical standpoint (I hate doing things at others expense).
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • FeltupFeltup Posts: 1,340
    I am not sure I am reading what happened correctly but it seems that a lot of the blame is with the rider. If you indicated early ( this is the bit I am not sure about) then he is effectively recklessly overtaking a car that has signalled its intention to do that maneuvre. If you indicated and moved at the same time then I would put the blame with you.

    Just lucky no one was hurt and hopefully everyone will learn to check more carefully.

    Have a great Christmas and don't beat yourself up too much.
    Short hairy legged roadie FCN 4 or 5 in my baggies.

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  • dodgydodgy Posts: 2,890
    As he wasn't wearing a helmet, you were probably in the right.
  • snookssnooks Posts: 1,521
    Mate, we all make mistakes, we all get impatient, due to one thing or another, you're not the only one, you're not the first and you won't be the last....Welcome to the land of the imperfect human :D

    The majority of the time Lady Luck is smiling on us and we get away with it. Others we're not so lucky.

    Like I said, learn from it, remember it, but don't beat yourself up. He should have taken note of your indication, you should have seen him, two wrongs don't make a right....Could have been worse, could have been you on the bike and the driver could have hit you!

    Hope everything was alright with Mz DDD :)
    FCN:5, 8 & 9
    If I'm not riding I'm shooting http://grahamsnook.com
    THE Game
    Watch out for HGVs
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Alright to clear up.

    I was stuck in traffic at the top of Balham hill.

    I indicated to turn left and took the turn late.

    As I was a quarter of the way through my turn a cyclists swerves around the front of my car from the left (He is actually well into the side road).

    Had I not taken the turn so wide he'd have (i)gone over my bonnet (ii) been knocked over.

    As much as it is my fault I'm thinking the cyclists could have been more careful because he would have seen me turning and tried to nip around me anyway.

    I feel bad because had I been more careful and checked blind spots more carefully, took the turn slower and earlier - not been in a rush - I wouldn't have had such a fright.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • +1 for snooks's comments.

    You can't change the past only the future. Learn from it and try not to do it again.

    You are only human, the fact that you are thinking about what happened makes you a good person. Don't let it ruin your Xmas.

    Regards
    Salmon
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    snooks wrote:
    Mate, we all make mistakes, we all get impatient, due to one thing or another, you're not the only one, you're not the first and you won't be the last....Welcome to the land of the imperfect human :D

    The majority of the time Lady Luck is smiling on us and we get away with it. Others we're not so lucky.

    Like I said, learn from it, remember it, but don't beat yourself up. He should have taken note of your indication, you should have seen him, two wrongs don't make a right....Could have been worse, could have been you on the bike and the driver could have hit you!

    Hope everything was alright with Mz DDD :)

    Thanks

    Ms DDD is good and fine. Still you worry most about those you care and love.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Mike HealeyMike Healey Posts: 1,023
    He was at fault.

    1. You signalled in plenty of time
    2. He was overtaking on the inside and not watching for a/ignoring your indicator flashing
    3. It is for the overtaker to watch for signalled manoeuvres of vehicles ahead
    4. You had right of way

    Stop beating yourself up.
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  • snookssnooks Posts: 1,521
    He was at fault.

    1. You signalled in plenty of time
    2. He was overtaking on the inside and not watching for a/ignoring your indicator flashing
    3. It is for the overtaker to watch for signalled manoeuvres of vehicles ahead
    4. You had right of way

    Stop beating yourself up.

    From the highway code:
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

    Turning left
    182

    Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.

    183

    When turning

    • keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
    • give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction


    Yes the cyclist should have seen DDD, and slowed (dunno whether there is a cycle lane there), but the driver should not have turned in - Think of it as if the cycle was another car. They are both at fault, not just the cyclist.

    At what point does the car have right of way? An indication is just that, a signal of intent not an acquisition of right :D
    FCN:5, 8 & 9
    If I'm not riding I'm shooting http://grahamsnook.com
    THE Game
    Watch out for HGVs
  • I can't help contrasting this thread to the one by the guy who didn't get remotely as close to knocking off a cyclist on a country lane at night without lights, whereas quite clearly he was a cautious and responsible driver and the cyclist had a death wish.

    Just to be clear on my position - although there is a responsibility for an undertaking cyclist to be careful of left turning drivers, there is also a responsibility of all users not to do things very suddenly or erratically.

    But since DDD is already ritually slamming his testicles in his car door as punishment, this seems to be clear enough.

    No, what's puzzleing me is the "formumania" that sometimes seems to arbitrarily come down one side or another, regardless of the available evidence.

    Okay, that's enough now DDD, you'll do permanent damage.....
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    DDD - I suffered the same accident as you describe (I was the cyclist), but I actually hit the deck, I was OK though - driver was cop, turning into the police station. :?

    As I a cyclist - I'd blame the cyclist, I know I shouldn't go up the left of the traffic in that situation, even though there's a bike lane - but I did. Going up the left is a stupid thing to do.

    However from my friends (not a cyclist) point of view a cycle lane IS a lane and so another vehicle shouldn't move into that lane without insuring first that there was not another vehicle in that lane.

    Was it a cycle lane DDD?
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  • HortonHorton Posts: 327
    DDD I did exactly the same as you about 2 days ago - except I was stuck in traffic at the bottom of the hill so the cyclist that went on my inside at at least 20mph, if not more, definitely had a death wish - I was indicating and yes I was checking my mirrors, but I did not see the cyclist until he swerved round my bonnet and then proceeded to jump onto the pavement to continue his journey towards an early death. I too was shook up (as was the pedestrian he nearly hit on the pavement)

    At the end of the day, you can't turn round a corner whilst simultaneously looking in front of you AND looking in your mirrors for cyclists who should not be undertaking.

    Also from the Highway code (the section specifically for cyclists):

    Road junctions
    72
    On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.
    73
    Pay particular attention to long vehicles which need a lot of room to manoeuvre at corners. Be aware that drivers may not see you. They may have to move over to the right before turning left. Wait until they have completed the manoeuvre because the rear wheels come very close to the kerb while turning. Do not be tempted to ride in the space between them and the kerb.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837
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