Mavis wheels R-sys vs Ksyrium SL
Comments
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dennisn wrote:One thing I have noticed is that while everyone seems to be talking about performance wheels, hardly anyone is talking tubulars.
Aren't we just talking about expensive all round wheels?!
Personally I'd skip the R-SYS and go straight for some deep section carbon tubulars but I'm assuming tubulars are not an option for the OP (though I do train on them a reasonable amount).0 -
James_London wrote:dennisn wrote:One thing I have noticed is that while everyone seems to be talking about performance wheels, hardly anyone is talking tubulars.
Aren't we just talking about expensive all round wheels?!
Personally I'd skip the R-SYS and go straight for some deep section carbon tubulars but I'm assuming tubulars are not an option for the OP (though I do train on them a reasonable amount).
You're right, he is talking expensive wheels, but he wanted to know if they were good for training. I was expressing my thoughts that training wheels were wheels to train on and get stronger. Those are mostly bling / poser(and racing) wheels(IMHO) but I didn't really want to say it. So now I have.
:oops: :oops:
Dennis Noward0 -
James_London wrote:That's a BMI of 20.5 which is pretty low! I can empathise with your riding buddies - though I know what I can sustain up a hill and have got better with practice at just sucking it up to the point of even enjoying it!
Anyhow.... What's the answer?! R-SYS or Ksyrium SLs? Personally I think this is going to run and run... :-)
Yeah, I do get referred to as skinny ribs, and also I think being fairly wide across the shoulders means I act as a bit of a sail on the fast flats so all in, I tend to play to my strengths; climbing.
If I had to recommend one of the 2 wheels for a good all round wheel with a bit of pose factor then I would say the SL premiums would be it. They are amazingly tough, quick enough on the fast flats and light enough on the climbs. Most bike shops have or can get spokes, as the Kysrium range has been about forever, and there is no real difficulty in working on them. The bearings last forever and are easily user adjusted (whilst mounted on the bike, a real bonus).
All that said, mine are still hanging up in the garage along with several other wheels, watching the R-sys get all the fun!Complicating matters since 19650 -
dennisn wrote:You're right, he is talking expensive wheels, but he wanted to know if they were good for training. I was expressing my thoughts that training wheels were wheels to train on and get stronger. Those are mostly bling / poser(and racing) wheels(IMHO) but I didn't really want to say it. So now I have. :oops: :oops:
Dennis Noward
Blimey I didn't think this thread would run so long! Most of my questions generate 3 replies at best!
Well actually I don't race (yet). I ride as often as I can, but still only about 3-4000 miles a year, and have started doing centuries and a lot of riding on work trips in California, where I have developed a passion for climbing mountains, seeings as that was my weakness til now.
I don't really care a damn about 'bling' or posing, in fact I laugh at some people who spend 2 grand on carbon wheels, frames, stems and seatposts but are carrying an extra 15kgs around their waist! But each to their own... I just want a decent set of wheels that I can enjoy rather than my old, unloved Ultegras that flex like hell and are heavy, and much unloved from what I am told (They appeared on the 2002 bikes and the design dissappeared over night). People keep telling me that a good wheelset is the biggest single difference you can make to a bike, so I want to treat myself and do it. When I said 'training' perhaps I should just have said 'for when I am out enjoying riding my bike', cos that, to be honest, is what I'm referring to.
Well anyway I think the SL's are for me.
Thanks for all your opinions though!0 -
derekwatts wrote:dennisn wrote:You're right, he is talking expensive wheels, but he wanted to know if they were good for training. I was expressing my thoughts that training wheels were wheels to train on and get stronger. Those are mostly bling / poser(and racing) wheels(IMHO) but I didn't really want to say it. So now I have. :oops: :oops:
Dennis Noward
Blimey I didn't think this thread would run so long! Most of my questions generate 3 replies at best!
Well actually I don't race (yet). I ride as often as I can, but still only about 3-4000 miles a year, and have started doing centuries and a lot of riding on work trips in California, where I have developed a passion for climbing mountains, seeings as that was my weakness til now.
I don't really care a damn about 'bling' or posing, in fact I laugh at some people who spend 2 grand on carbon wheels, frames, stems and seatposts but are carrying an extra 15kgs around their waist! But each to their own... I just want a decent set of wheels that I can enjoy rather than my old, unloved Ultegras that flex like hell and are heavy, and much unloved from what I am told (They appeared on the 2002 bikes and the design dissappeared over night). People keep telling me that a good wheelset is the biggest single difference you can make to a bike, so I want to treat myself and do it. When I said 'training' perhaps I should just have said 'for when I am out enjoying riding my bike', cos that, to be honest, is what I'm referring to.
Well anyway I think the SL's are for me.
Thanks for all your opinions though!
I'm with you about not caring about bling(well, maybe just a little - then again who doesn't). I'm also probably the guy you saw with the extra 15kg around his waist.
I just turned 60 and haven't raced in years but still enjoy getting out there. I do most work on my bike myself, including building wheels. So I tend to go with easy to fix "things" and
really hate being stranded because of a broken spoke(hence the 32 count wheels). But I digress. Our local racing club is sponsored(mostly) by Rolf Prima Wheels. Rolf used to live here in Toledo and raced with us some years back. Until he discovered his true
calling - wheel building. Anyway, he still keeps in touch and each year offers the club
a really good discount on his wheels. Lots of guys take him up on it and Rolf's are a pretty common sight at most club races and regional events. Great wheels. Light weight,
aero, well built, and our club racers take home their fair share of prize money(no one is getting rich) in an area that has it's fair share of competitive events and racing clubs.
I say all this to kind of show you that pretty much any, so called, high end wheels(and some that aren't) are capable of winning races. I've seen all kinds of different wheels
and have yet to see one specific brand take it "all". They are all pretty good wheels
but there is one thing that all these low spoke count wheels have in common and that is
they become useless when a spoke breaks
and are generally harder to repair than a conventional wheel. The guys around here love
their Rolf's and he makes a great wheel but nothing is perfect and a broken spoke is cause for a lot of groaning. I do a fair share of weekend and week long supported tours
and have seen more than a few cases where riders have broken a spoke. The ones that come out of it ok are the ones that use standard wheels, hubs, and spokes that the repair vans can actually fix. The ones using really fancy wheels are out of luck most of the time and are generally faced with the prospect of buying whatever type of wheels the repair vans may have just to continue. Whew, OK I'm done.
Dennis Noward0 -
So carry some replacement Ksyrium spokes on week long tour then
Dennis?!0 -
[quote="derekwatts"]dennisn wrote:You're right, he is talking expensive wheels, but he wanted to know if they were good for training. I was expressing my thoughts that training wheels were wheels to train on and get stronger. Those are mostly bling / poser(and racing) wheels(IMHO) but I didn't really want to say it. So now I have. :oops: :oops:
Dennis Noward
Blimey I didn't think this thread would run so long! Most of my questions generate 3 replies at best!
Well actually I don't race (yet). I ride as often as I can, but still only about 3-4000 miles a year, and have started doing centuries and a lot of riding on work trips in California, where I have developed a passion for climbing mountains, seeings as that was my weakness til now.
I don't really care a damn about 'bling' or posing, in fact I laugh at some people who spend 2 grand on carbon wheels, frames, stems and seatposts but are carrying an extra 15kgs around their waist! But each to their own... I just want a decent set of wheels that I can enjoy rather than my old, unloved Ultegras that flex like hell and are heavy, and much unloved from what I am told (They appeared on the 2002 bikes and the design dissappeared over night). People keep telling me that a good wheelset is the biggest single difference you can make to a bike, so I want to treat myself and do it. When I said 'training' perhaps I should just have said 'for when I am out enjoying riding my bike', cos that, to be honest, is what I'm referring to.
Well anyway I think the SL's are for me.
Thanks for all your opinions though![/quote]
I think personally you have made the right choice. As I have said, five years on and my SLs are still excellent. No I don't race, no thanks, but if I did I would still plump for the SLs.0 -
James_London wrote:So carry some replacement Ksyrium spokes on week long tour then
Dennis?!
Strangely enough I do. I have a set of Mavic SSC 32 spoke wheels that have straight pull spokes on them. Not the kind of thing you would find in a traveling shop van. I tape 2 or 3 of them to the bike just in case. I really only bring up the low spoke count breakage problem because when one goes you probably aren't going any further until it's fixed, whereas a wheel with more spokes can be, at least, trued up to a point and get you moving again. Which is why I use them. I'm not sure why I would "need" overly expensive
wheels at this stage in my life. One rider in our club has always said that he will continue
to use 32-36 spoke wheels and still be lighter than most other riders because he doesn't
have to carry a cell phone.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:One rider in our club has always said that he will continue
to use 32-36 spoke wheels and still be lighter than most other riders because he doesn't
have to carry a cell phone.
No cell phone??? How does he check bikeradar mid-ride?0 -
No - even 32 spokers are more aero than the R-Sys!wildmoustache wrote:don't go down the 32spoke route - as that's the one option slower than the R-SYS !!!
the whole handbuilt reliability thing is exaggerated and outdated
Yes factory wheels are consistently built, and yes you can get badly built handbuilt wheels, but the point you ignore is that if you do break a spoke on a handbuilt wheel it's straightforward and cheap to replace it. See all the threads on here asking about replacement spokes for fancy factory wheels. Just get well built handmade wheels from somebody reliable (or learn to do it yourself) and the extra spokes will make for a more reliable wheel.0 -
dennisn wrote:One thing I have noticed is that while everyone seems to be talking about performance
wheels, hardly anyone is talking tubulars. IMHO a good set of race wheels(since everyone seems to have forgot you were talking training wheels) are of course, tubulars.
This, as always, will cause howls of protest, but that's the way I've always seen it.
Anyway, my theory is that training wheels are sturdy, with good tough tires, and easy to work on. You're training, not racing, ride something that won't give you problems. Spend the big money on your race bike and or wheels and use it / them for racing only. Unless,
like I've said, you've got the money and it's burning holes in your pockets. Given a choice I'd rather trash a handbuilt than a factory wheel. I can rebuld my handbuilts.
Dennis Noward
Dennis - with respect your comments strike me as a bit out of touch with the reality of how sturdy factory built clinchers are. I would be pretty confident that if we were able to take a representative sample then the average campagnolo wheel would be much more reliable than the average handbuilt. And yes ... most people want to ride fast wheels all the time ... "training" with your mates does get competitive.
Your "tubs for racing / 32 spokers for training" is fine, but not necessarily the best way of doing things for many people these days.0 -
aracer wrote:
No - even 32 spokers are more aero than the R-Sys!wildmoustache wrote:don't go down the 32spoke route - as that's the one option slower than the R-SYS !!!
the whole handbuilt reliability thing is exaggerated and outdated
Yes factory wheels are consistently built, and yes you can get badly built handbuilt wheels, but the point you ignore is that if you do break a spoke on a handbuilt wheel it's straightforward and cheap to replace it. See all the threads on here asking about replacement spokes for fancy factory wheels. Just get well built handmade wheels from somebody reliable (or learn to do it yourself) and the extra spokes will make for a more reliable wheel.
Maybe ... maybe ... but if you live in London you just pop into Condor who are campag proshop and you pick up a spare whatever factory spoke for a few quid. Just as easy as handbuilt if you have the right LBS nearby!0 -
wildmoustache wrote:dennisn wrote:One thing I have noticed is that while everyone seems to be talking about performance
wheels, hardly anyone is talking tubulars. IMHO a good set of race wheels(since everyone seems to have forgot you were talking training wheels) are of course, tubulars.
This, as always, will cause howls of protest, but that's the way I've always seen it.
Anyway, my theory is that training wheels are sturdy, with good tough tires, and easy to work on. You're training, not racing, ride something that won't give you problems. Spend the big money on your race bike and or wheels and use it / them for racing only. Unless,
like I've said, you've got the money and it's burning holes in your pockets. Given a choice I'd rather trash a handbuilt than a factory wheel. I can rebuld my handbuilts.
Dennis Noward
Dennis - with respect your comments strike me as a bit out of touch with the reality of how sturdy factory built clinchers are. I would be pretty confident that if we were able to take a representative sample then the average campagnolo wheel would be much more reliable than the average handbuilt. And yes ... most people want to ride fast wheels all the time ... "training" with your mates does get competitive.
Your "tubs for racing / 32 spokers for training" is fine, but not necessarily the best way of doing things for many people these days.
With me it's something of a money thing too. I can build up(myself) a set of wheels
using group set hubs and aftermarket spokes and rims that will be very comparable
both in weight and aero as factory wheels costing two and three times as much and
be able to fix them myself, which I find very gratifying. I'm not trying to put down factory
wheels and I realize that not everyone wants to build their own, but twice or three times the price for something no better than handbuilts????? I'll build a set of 500 dollar wheels that
will perform at least as well if not better than a good portion of 1500 dollar wheelsets.
Dennis Noward0
