Cycling In Icy Conditions is a Crime.

AndyManc

I've pinched this off the CTC forum, a contributor has pointed out the information below.

"But any way do you think that cycling in icy conditions is dangerous ? I do, and is it then a crime?---- This is from the road traffic act 1990

28 Dangerous cycling (1) A person who rides a cycle on a road dangerously is guilty of an offence.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above a person is to be regarded as riding dangerously if (and only if)—
(a) the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and
(b) it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous.
(3) In subsection (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of that subsection what would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.”"__


So, I interpret that as meaning , if you know it's dangerous then you are breaking the law.

We are all 'aware' cycling in sub-zero conditions is dangerous, are those that cycle in icy conditions negligent ?



:roll:

spen666

AndyManc wrote:

I've pinched this off the CTC forum, a contributor has pointed out the information below.

"But any way do you think that cycling in icy conditions is dangerous ? I do, and is it then a crime?---- This is from the road traffic act 1990

28 Dangerous cycling (1) A person who rides a cycle on a road dangerously is guilty of an offence.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above a person is to be regarded as riding dangerously if (and only if)—
(a) the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and
(b) it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous.
(3) In subsection (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of that subsection what would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.”"__


So, I interpret that as meaning , if you know it's dangerous then you are breaking the law.

We are all 'aware' cycling in sub-zero conditions is dangerous, are those that cycle in icey conditions negligent ?



:roll:

and that my friend is why you are not a lawyer.

You have completely missed the key words in that passage

ansbaradigeidfran

Firstly, I think it's the 1991 act.

That section seems to revolve around the matter of a 'competent and careful cyclist', and how competence and carefulness is interpreted.

I'd say that competence is the more straight forward issue, in that any of us who have been commuting regularly for months/years have acquired competence in a general sense. (You could argue for competence in cycling in icy conditions, but you won't get the experience if you don't go out!) Then you have to be careful. Slowing down, and possibly fitting studded tyres should go a fair distance toward that.

gb155

Does that mean that after 955 miles in 6 months, Now there is a little ice/frost I must stop everything or ge thrown in a cell to become "Bubba's" Bitch ?

lost_in_thought

spen666 wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

I've pinched this off the CTC forum, a contributor has pointed out the information below.
snip
:

and that my friend is why you are not a lawyer.

You have completely missed the key words in that passage

Spen, o great one, pray enlighten us peasants with your lawyerly wisdom....

AndyManc

It could also be argued that the chances of having an accident in icy conditions is high (as proven by the number of reports on this forum) and by the number of regular bikers that refuse to cycle in poor conditions.

I would regard ice and cycling a lethal combination.

I'm sure a prosecuting lawyer could argue contributory negligence in failing to act accordingly in severe weather conditions.





and how long have I been spelling icy (icey) wrong ...... ffs :roll: , I blame the flu.

gb155

AndyManc wrote:

It could also be argued that the chances of having an accident in icy conditions is high (as proven by the number of reports on this forum) and by the number of regular bikers that refuse to cycle in poor conditions.

I would regard ice and cycling a lethal combination.

I'm sure a prosecuting lawyer could argue contributory negligence in failing to act accordingly in severe weather conditions.





and how long have I been spelling icy (icey) wrong ...... ffs :roll: , I blame the flu.

MAN FLU ? Never good mate.....


CTC are too militant for me im sorry to say,

Some mornings (The DRY and NON Icy ones) I see a kid (12 ISH) cycling I assume to school, Weaving all over the place and struggling to hold a line, Credit to the kid for getting out there and giving it a go but he hasnt got a clue

Then you have myself who will slow RIGHT down to 10-15 mph for the duration of my commute and not even filter if the road is greasy.

Who is more dangerous ?

ansbaradigeidfran

Also appearing in the 1991 Road Traffic Act:

1 Causing death by dangerous driving

A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle dangerously on a road or other public place is guilty of an offence.
2 Dangerous driving

A person who drives a mechanically propelled vehicle dangerously on a road or other public place is guilty of an offence.
2A Meaning of dangerous driving

(1) For the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above a person is to be regarded as driving dangerously if (and, subject to subsection (2) below, only if)—

(a) the way he drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver, and

(b) it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.

(2) A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of sections 1 and 2 above if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous.

(3) In subsections (1) and (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of those subsections what would be expected of, or obvious to, a competent and careful driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.

(4) In determining for the purposes of subsection (2) above the state of a vehicle, regard may be had to anything attached to or carried on or in it and to the manner in which it is attached or carried.

Discounting the differences between a "competent and careful driver" and a "competent and careful driver", it would follow that either drivers are also breaking the law for going out in icy conditions, or that neither are.

spen666

AndyManc wrote:

It could also be argued that the chances of having an accident in icy conditions is high (as proven by the number of reports on this forum) and by the number of regular bikers that refuse to cycle in poor conditions.

I would regard ice and cycling a lethal combination.

I'm sure a prosecuting lawyer could argue contributory negligence in failing to act accordingly in severe weather conditions.








and how long have I been spelling icy (icey) wrong ...... ffs :roll: , I blame the flu.

Andy - give over with your very poor attempts at the law.


A PROSECUTING lawyer could not argue contributory negligence as theree is no such thing in a prosecution.

You are confusing a civil law term with a criminal law offence.


Contributory negligence is not relevant in criminal law



In criminal law the prosecution have to prove the defendant is guilty ( there is no contributory or partial guilt in criminal law)


The Act you quoted relates to a CRIMINAL offence

laughingboy

I am not a lawyer, but I'd guess that the important part is:

"...'dangerous' refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property..."

So in my common-sense world (not the world of lawyers), if you are likely to ride into something/someone (oncoming traffic, pedestrians, other cyclists) then you may be riding dangerously. Icy conditions are a separate matter. The fact that you might skid when you hit ice, much like a car would, does not mean that it is illegal to ride when it is cold.

Unless, that is, you were riding dangerously at the time.

But what do I know?

spen666

gb155 wrote:

[.....Then you have myself who will slow RIGHT down to 10-15 mph for the duration of my commute and not even filter if the road is greasy.

Who is more dangerous ?

SLOW DOWN to 10-15mph???

That's me with a tail wind going downhill

gb155

spen666 wrote:

gb155 wrote:

[.....Then you have myself who will slow RIGHT down to 10-15 mph for the duration of my commute and not even filter if the road is greasy.

Who is more dangerous ?

SLOW DOWN to 10-15mph???

That's me with a tail wind going downhill

"Run's off to check calibration of cycle computer !"

spen666

gb155 wrote:

...
"Run's off to check calibration of cycle computer !"

Nah, I'm just slow

gb155

spen666 wrote:

gb155 wrote:

...
"Run's off to check calibration of cycle computer !"

Nah, I'm just slow

PHEW ! Although I did make sure its set right lol

Underscore

I guess this is the key section:

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above a person is to be regarded as riding dangerously if (and only if)—
(a) the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and
(b) it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous.

So, provided you cycle appropriately for the conditions - and I certainly cycle much more slowly and only use my rear brake when there is ice on the roads - you are (although IANAL) in the clear, I would suggest.

_