When is it OK to RLJ

DonDaddyD

Here is the scenario:

You're riding along the road, no traffic, you're approaching a crossing, its not at a junction - so no cars joining the road you're on - and there are no pedestrians using the crossing or near the crossing but the lights go red.

Do you RLJ?

lost_in_thought

More variables please!

Clearly I realise you can't do that... but it would depend on some other factors for me - for example, if it's in the dead of night and there is literally not a soul around then I'd consider it. Not a definite 'yes' though, even in those circumstances.

My normal approach is to slow down and creep (trying to trackstand) until it changes again - the ped ones never stay red for long (I'm presuming they're what you're talking about).

EDIT: for clarity.

jonginge

Nope, but I do turn the air blue. Sometimes this newly defouled air will react with the light and it will go green. Magic

Totalnewbie

Same as LiT.

Last time I jumped a red it was a random filter light in some back streets somewhere in an area I didn't know. I wasn't hanging about forever in a strange areas and there was not a soul around so I jumped it. That was about six months ago though.

Totalnewbie

Oh except for the trackstand bit. Can't do that to save my life. I just approach it v e r y s l o w l y.

lost_in_thought

Totalnewbie wrote:

Oh except for the trackstand bit. Can't do that to save my life. I just approach it v e r y s l o w l y.

Nor can I. Note the *trying* to trackstand... I'm taking the FG home over xmas to learn.

biondino

DDD do you do everything the same every time you do it? If not then please change/delete poll. Thx.

spasypaddy

if its a red light and im turning left and theres no traffic coming then yes i will. if its a red light ped crossing and there are literally no peds and no traffic then yes.

i wont red light jump when there is traffic involved or when there are peds involved or if i might cross a line of traffic so no RLJ if it involved turning right. Just too dangerous

Feltup

I voted no but then realised that I did jump some road work traffic lights on saturday because they sat on red and didn't change for a few minutes at which point I concluded that the traffic sensor probably hadn't been triggered by me on a bike. It's the only time I jump lights though except possibly following LiT's rules/gut feelings above.

lost_in_thought

biondino wrote:

DDD do you do everything the same every time you do it? If not then please change/delete poll. Thx.

K thx bai.

It reads a little bit like one of those books where you choose your actions then it sends you to another page...

Do you RLJ?

If yes go to P56

If no go to P31

P56: You RLJ. As you ride away, a SCR-er scalps you then berates you for maligning cyclists. You feel dreadful, and while wallowing in self-pity you crash and your frame snaps in half. That'll learn you.

I liked those books.

Rich158

spasypaddy wrote:

if its a red light and im turning left and theres no traffic coming then yes i will. if its a red light ped crossing and there are literally no peds and no traffic then yes.

i wont red light jump when there is traffic involved or when there are peds involved or if i might cross a line of traffic so no RLJ if it involved turning right. Just too dangerous

I do exactly the same, although I do RLJ pedestrian crossings if it's clear, even if there is traffic about. If it ever means that I have to cross a line of moving traffic then I don't do it.

A colleague of mine used to be a cycle courier and I followed him from Tower Bridge down to RP in the summer. I think I rode the whole way with my eyes closed, especially coming into Putney :shock: . I've never been so scared on a bike in my life

DavidTQ

I can think of 2 situations where I would cylce through a red light a) when signalled to do so by emergency services, b) if I felt my life was in danger by stopping - being chased by a mad man with a gun would convince me not to stop for a red...

Of course I once saw what impatience did when a 4wd in front of me got bored of waiting at a set of lights on a crossroads and floored it to get across straight into the side of some woman in a small saloon, spinning her car 180 and taking off all of one side...

If I thought a light was jammed, not sensing me etc then you being on a bike you can hop off push past hop back on completely legitimately.

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

DDD do you do everything the same every time you do it? If not then please change/delete poll. Thx.

Actually this is becoming an increasing problem for me.... :shock:

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

DDD do you do everything the same every time you do it? If not then please change/delete poll. Thx.

K thx bai.

It reads a little bit like one of those books where you choose your actions then it sends you to another page...

Do you RLJ?

If yes go to P56

If no go to P31

P56: You RLJ. As you ride away, a SCR-er scalps you then berates you for maligning cyclists. You feel dreadful, and while wallowing in self-pity you crash and your frame snaps in half. That'll learn you.

I liked those books.

Who let the pedants out!?

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

DDD do you do everything the same every time you do it? If not then please change/delete poll. Thx.

K thx bai.

It reads a little bit like one of those books where you choose your actions then it sends you to another page...

Do you RLJ?

If yes go to P56

If no go to P31

P56: You RLJ. As you ride away, a SCR-er scalps you then berates you for maligning cyclists. You feel dreadful, and while wallowing in self-pity you crash and your frame snaps in half. That'll learn you.

I liked those books.

Who let the pedants out!?

[pedant]

That's not pedantry, this is!

[/pedant]

I was just commenting! Dude.... srsly..

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

biondino wrote:

DDD do you do everything the same every time you do it? If not then please change/delete poll. Thx.

K thx bai.

It reads a little bit like one of those books where you choose your actions then it sends you to another page...

Do you RLJ?

If yes go to P56

If no go to P31

P56: You RLJ. As you ride away, a SCR-er scalps you then berates you for maligning cyclists. You feel dreadful, and while wallowing in self-pity you crash and your frame snaps in half. That'll learn you.

I liked those books.

Who let the pedants out!?

[pedant]

That's not pedantry, this is!

[/pedant]

I was just commenting! Dude.... srsly..

You 'Dude' me that's so cute! I want to pinch your cheeks! :oops:

I'm messing with you. It does read like one of those Role Playing books. Or like a Final Fantasy Game... (Final Fantasy X was the best by the way). This is mostly because I've spent the past two days on www.newsarama.com arguing whether Goku (DBZ) could beat up Superman (DC).... :shock:

Anyway. Yes if the road is clear, and its just a crossing I'd probably would RLJ. If its in the Morning or in the afternoon (i.e. on a commute) no I wouldn't.

chromehoof

DonDaddyD wrote:

Here is the scenario:

You're riding along the road, no traffic, you're approaching a crossing, its not at a junction - so no cars joining the road you're on - and there are no pedestrians using the crossing or near the crossing but the lights go red.

Do you RLJ?

yes, always. I don't see the issue with it. I only stop at red lights when its not safe to do otherwise (which is mostly I acknowledge).

When commuting, the route I take has several junstions where its safer to RLJ than not. Getting that couple of second head-start on traffic makes a huge difference. Obviously one has to be sensible and a little conservative in what their assessment of 'safe' is and isn't.

In theory I have no problem with jumping lights. I'll always slow right down coming up to them, make my call, then go (or not). People who do it recklessly though are the spawn of the devil himself.

Spitchips - BANNED

If you approach lights and they turn red why not just jump of bike and push it across the road and then leap back on and carry on cycling - no laws broken their and shortens waiting time at lights.

prj45

Spitchips wrote:

If you approach lights and they turn red why not just jump of bike and push it across the road and then leap back on and carry on cycling - no laws broken their and shortens waiting time at lights.

I've been asked why i don't do this this before.

1. It generally takes longer

2. mounting and dismouting a bike = most likely time to fall off/do self injury on knacker cracker bar..

3. Chill out, relax, have a look round, catch your breath, life's not a race!

ansbaradigeidfran

I've just thought of one situation where I consider it acceptable to RLJ. It's at a particular junction in the one-way system in Bangor, outside the train station (red logo).

The right-turn lane (in blue) is marked buses only, buses cycles and taxis only, or access only, depending on which of three signs you pay attention to. There's one of those induction circuits in the lane, but they don't pick the bikes up. I've never seen a bus or taxi in the lane. The light sequence means that the arrows indicated as green all go at the same time. At this time, a few cyclists coming down the hill will essentially disregard the red light (as it will never turn green for them) and, yielding to oncoming traffic, turn right to get to the station.

jimmypippa

I now avoid it, but there used to be a sensor traffic-light that didn't react to cyclists (or to me, anyway)...

I did (carefully) then with no traffic anywhere near me.

Otherwise, no.

Edit, after careful reading of the previous post, I see the same point has been made...

_Brun_

I voted 'for' in the other recent thread, but have been too damn busy (working on a car comercial would you believe) to post any reasons why.

The thing that bothers me most about this argument is this 'RLJ-ing adversely affects all cyclists'*. It's just too simple a statement to apply to all cyclists in all circumstances, which is perfectly illiustrated by the pedestrian crossing...

It's really very obvious when you can safely go through a red light at a crossing because there are no pedestrians absolutely anywhere near it. I'm sure I'm not the only person that's looked around and wondered who the hell pressed the damn button in the first place?

In that situation, does anyone really think that the driver behind them is boiling with rage while they wait for the flashing amber after witnessing a cyclist going through? Of course not, unless by chance they hate cyclists anyway, in which case they'd be just as annoyed by being held up if the cyclist had waited. If of course some pillock barrels through a red-lit crossing scattering pensioners and expectant mothers hither and thither they deserve a certain degree verbal (and probably physical) abuse.

As far as I'm concerned the above can be equally appiled to any circumstances where the cyclist has no effect on the rest of the trafic. I honestly do not belive that drivers get pissed off with cyclists who take liberties at lights if it's irrelevant to themselves. Why the hell would they? I reckon that if every cyclist on my daily commute suddenly started to obey lights there'd be at least a two fold increase in the number of bikes waiting to get away at junctions. Given that we all know what a mess it can be as cyclists of various abilities set off from the lights, it's very easy to argue that thinning the crowd at junctions by RLJ-ing can be a positive thing for drivers.

*Edit: I've had a driving license for sixteen years, and eighteen months ago I got the first bike I've had since I was a kid. I'd honestly never heard that argument before reading these forums.

always_tyred

_Brun_ wrote:

As far as I'm concerned the above can be equally appiled to any circumstances where the cyclist has no effect on the rest of the trafic. I honestly do not belive that drivers get pissed off with cyclists who take liberties at lights if it's irrelevant to themselves. Why the hell would they?

Perhaps this just boils down to how cynical you are. I think many motorists DO hate us for disregarding any rule, irrespective of its effect on them.

Drivers (including those of us who drive) have some strange notions of right and wrong. Not the other day I had to brake and swerve out of the way of a lady turning out of a tjunction onto the road I was on.

I caught her up and asked if she'd seen me and she declared that yes she had but that it was her right of way.

Astonishing. A measure of quite how barmy attitudes can be. Never underestimate this. And don't rlj, unless you have a magic potion for changing human nature.

gtvlusso

Only very selectively - certain junctions - no cars waiting and no peds. Do temp lights (even in the car if you can see the other end of the restriction and know of no "third" roads under light control) as you can usually ride inside the coned area. Big junctions I stop and wait or anything that looks dodgy/has peds.....

always_tyred

gtvlusso wrote:

Only very selectively - certain junctions - no cars waiting and no peds. Do temp lights (even in the car if you can see the other end of the restriction and know of no "third" roads under light control) as you can usually ride inside the coned area. Big junctions I stop and wait or anything that looks dodgy/has peds.....

There is an A-road about 20 miles out of town with a 50 yard stretch. Its barely used. I confess to riding in the coned off area (I believe that there are 6 month long preparations for contemplating conducting some road works, either that or they needed somewhere to store some cones).

soy_sauce

if that is a crossing light then it will only be 10 secends (i know im sad for counting... :oops: ) also nowaday most of them have sensors at the top so a flash of your bike light will change the crossing light back to green (only if there is nobody waiting to cross the road and press the button).

back to the original question, I will prop RLJ in this case.

cee

cake or death?

CiB

Spitchips wrote:

If you approach lights and they turn red why not just jump of bike and push it across the road and then leap back on and carry on cycling - no laws broken their and shortens waiting time at lights.

See I'll treat all RLs as a Give Way, but got berated for saying so on here last week. The theme that emerged was that we can't pick & choose which laws to obey (to which I say cobblers, I'm a 46 with young kids. My judgment call is my own decision).

But this reply [above] gets me. Cyclists are a fine line between peds and traffic. It doesn't make sense to me that getting off and pushing the thing round a corner is in any way different to going at exactly the same speed, using half the road space, by staying aboard and using the eyes & ears to be sure that it's safe. Walking in the road is ok, but being on it is a big no-no?

RLJing is everything from flying through a busy zebra crossing in town scattering peds left right & centre, to sidling through a deserted junction with no-one for miles around. Yet the zealouts can't distinguish. Shame. I'll carry on thanks.

always_tyred

ChrisInBicester wrote:

Spitchips wrote:

If you approach lights and they turn red why not just jump of bike and push it across the road and then leap back on and carry on cycling - no laws broken their and shortens waiting time at lights.

See I'll treat all RLs as a Give Way, but got berated for saying so on here last week. The theme that emerged was that we can't pick & choose which laws to obey (to which I say cobblers, I'm a 46 with young kids. My judgment call is my own decision).

But this reply [above] gets me. Cyclists are a fine line between peds and traffic. It doesn't make sense to me that getting off and pushing the thing round a corner is in any way different to going at exactly the same speed, using half the road space, by staying aboard and using the eyes & ears to be sure that it's safe. Walking in the road is ok, but being on it is a big no-no?

RLJing is everything from flying through a busy zebra crossing in town scattering peds left right & centre, to sidling through a deserted junction with no-one for miles around. Yet the zealouts can't distinguish. Shame. I'll carry on thanks.

I don't think many people argue with the general sentiment - for sure some will always be more cautious than other though - the point is that the day to day reality of motorists' attitudes is unrelated to the finer points of fact, tehy only see that someone is moving when they are stationary, "Grr" (or enough of them do to worry me).

Maybe it depends where you live? I'm far more worried in certain areas of the city than others, and in some cities than others. I've had enough experience of motorists (a tiny minority) getting so angry that they drive deliberately at you, or try to run you into parked cars, that sort of thing, to make me absolutely convinced that as a simple consequence of being smaller, lighter and more easily damaged than a car, I should give the appearance of objeying traffic laws (and to refrain giving the finger to people with dilated pupils and dodgy complexions.... that's another story..)

So when these debates drone on about how somoene's judgement should be allowed to be excersised, etc, is to totally miss the point.

ellieb

See I'll treat all RLs as a Give Way, but got berated for saying so on here last week. The theme that emerged was that we can't pick & choose which laws to obey (to which I say cobblers, I'm a 46 with young kids. My judgment call is my own decision).

Err.. have you ever met anyone who thinks that they are an incompetent moron who is unable to judge how to drive/ride correctly. I'm involved in aviation & the lives of millions of people pass through my hands each year. Does that mean I should be immune from the law and decide what I think is best every time I use the road/?

'Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools'

Unfortunately, the idiots are the only ones who live by this maxim.

Jay dubbleU

Never - you wouldn't do it in a car so why do it on a bike? Its against the law and it gets cycling a bad name