I nearly got a tan at night. Lights that are too bright!

DonDaddyD

Heading towards Clapham Common yesterday I could feel my skin getting darker (which is bloody hard to do) and beginning to peel away (near impossible) as this dude on a Mountain bike, attempted to bring daylight forward by 12hours through the ingenious method of housing two small stars on his handlebars. I nearly had a fit as they were also flashing and I'm not joking.

Should their be some kind of legal regulation on the brightness of lights and the frequency of how they flash (whether they should flash at all) on bicycle lights?

If there are any regulations what are they?

What regulations would you have?

Littigator

This issue really gets my goat It's totally uncalled for and selfish to have over-powerful lights on your bike.

I usually give them a quick "Got a dipped beam on that mate?"

scullyman

I'm not normally a commuting poster but have to say, DDD, that your post made me laugh out loud. Obviously I'm going to have to apologise for this as it's a serious topic but the concept of two small handlebar mounted stars sounds amazing for night rides off-road...

Totalnewbie

Not quite sure why anyone would want to do this in town. Out in the unlit lanes of Yokelbury, yes. Being able to see where you are going is always good.

I have the Cateye single shot plus and use it on the low setting on lit streets.

Rich158

Totalnewbie wrote:

Not quite sure why anyone would want to do this in town. Out in the unlit lanes of Yokelbury, yes. Being able to see where you are going is always good.

I have the Cateye single shot plus and use it on the low setting on lit streets.

I commute far enough to have to travel through Yokelbury to get to London. I've tried the Cateye single shot plus, and it's nowhere near bright enough for country lanes, especially when it's chucking it down. I now use a Niterider Minewt, it may be too bright for the streets of London, but at least I can see where I'm going when I get out amongst the carrot crunchers

neil²

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

At least they had lights! Most posts on this topic relate to deathwish riders in stealth mode.

*** nerd alert... techy stuff coming!... *** :shock:
Putting on my ergonomist hat for a moment - flashing lights (10Hz is a good frequency for this) aid detection and are good things to have if your objective is someone seeing you (e.g. rear light). What you are talking about though is something different, called disability glare, which occurs when you have a very intense light in your field of vision which is otherwise mostly dim. It will reduce the performance of the oncoming person and potentially make things more dangerous. This is the same as an oncoming car with full beam lights impairing your perception of your position on the road. Likewise, if you wack up the brightness on a satnav at night, your visual performance becomes worse. You need to make a sensible compromise between being visible, being able to see, and not dazzling the oncoming people so much that they squash you. i.e. engage brain!
*** nerd alert all clear... ***

It sounds like the dazzler was not being very bright. (sorry - bad pun.)

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Underscore

DonDaddyD wrote:

Heading towards Clapham Common yesterday I could feel my skin getting darker (which is bloody hard to do) and beginning to peel away (near impossible) as this dude on a Mountain bike, attempted to bring daylight forward by 12hours through the ingenious method of housing two small stars on his handlebars. I nearly had a fit as they were also flashing and I'm not joking.

Should their be some kind of legal regulation on the brightness of lights and the frequency of how they flash (whether they should flash at all) on bicycle lights?

If there are any regulations what are they?

What regulations would you have?

I think that the RVLR do have a requirement on the flashing frequency. Ah, yes, here. So any flashing light (whether to front or rear) must flash with a frequency of 1-4Hz. Arguably, there is also a regulation prohibiting overly bright lights already. Since high powered lights are unlikely to have the appropriate BS (or equivalent) approval, they can only be considered as additional lighting, which:

... is permitted under certain conditions:
* It must not dazzle other road users

However, since they are likely not to have the legally required lighting on their bike anyway (just as I, and all other commuters-by-night that I know, don't), they are likely neither to be stopped for it, nor care.

_

Edit: Fixed the flash rate. D'oh!

spen666

Littigator wrote:

This issue really gets my goat It's totally uncalled for and selfish to have over-powerful lights on your bike.

I usually give them a quick "Got a dipped beam on that mate?"

i've yet to find lights for a bike that are as bright or powerful as car head lights

Why should cyclists have to have cr*p lights?

Of more concern to me would be the fact their positioning was dazzling you

Rich158

spen666 wrote:

Littigator wrote:

This issue really gets my goat It's totally uncalled for and selfish to have over-powerful lights on your bike.

I usually give them a quick "Got a dipped beam on that mate?"

i've yet to find lights for a bike that are as bright or powerful as car head lights

Why should cyclists have to have cr*p lights?

Of more concern to me would be the fact their positioning was dazzling you

The issue with the more powerful lights is that they flash on full brightness, and generally aren't street legal as they're designed for off road use, and don't have the neccesary bleed to the sides. If they are badly positioned on the bars then this is a potential problem for on-coming road users.

I just point mine at the ground about 6 feet in front of me whilst I'm in town and reposition them when I hit the lanes.

cee

lights that are too bright can be annoying. I dont think it is a problem for off-road lights particularly, take the ayup roadie set.....

The angle that they are set at can as said by other be really poor.

Some car headlights seem to be uber bright as well though....Xenon HID bulbs with a blue tinge.....great if you are driving with them, not so much if you are heading towards them.

Eat My Dust

I've got a MTBer on my commute who always puts his hand up to shield his eyes from my lights. It really annoys me. He even does it when I've only got the 5w on (although sometimes the 10w as well) Now, it's not as straight forward as you may think. He does this in full daylight when I'm draining the last of the power from my battery. There's no way he's being dazzled, are my lights brighter than the sun? He's even wearing sunglasses. He makes such a big deal about it, I'm close to telling him to f*ck off. BTW both my lights are most definitely pointed towards the road.

Surf-Matt

spen666 wrote:

Littigator wrote:

This issue really gets my goat It's totally uncalled for and selfish to have over-powerful lights on your bike.

I usually give them a quick "Got a dipped beam on that mate?"

i've yet to find lights for a bike that are as bright or powerful as car head lights

Why should cyclists have to have cr*p lights?

Of more concern to me would be the fact their positioning was dazzling you

Car headlights - dipped approx 700 lumens, main beam approx 1200 lumens.
Lupine Betty 14 (and some others) - 1500 lumens.

cee

maybe he is saluting?? :shock:

8) cos yer lights are too bright!

Eat My Dust

Surf-Matt wrote:

Car headlights - dipped approx 700 lumens, main beam approx 1200 lumens.
Lupine Betty 14 (and some others) - 1500 lumens.

How many people are out there with £650 worth of lights for their commute? I bet there's not many.

tardington

I wish I was one though!

The main reason I want some is to blind impudent pedestrians on my cyclepath...

tardington

I wish I was one though!

The main reason I want some is to blind impudent pedestrians on my cyclepath...

Portrush Philly

How many people are out there with £650 worth of lights for their commute? I bet there's not many.

I come close to that figure, and I still don't think I'm illuminated enough!

Surf-Matt

Eat My Dust wrote:

Surf-Matt wrote:

Car headlights - dipped approx 700 lumens, main beam approx 1200 lumens.
Lupine Betty 14 (and some others) - 1500 lumens.

How many people are out there with £650 worth of lights for their commute? I bet there's not many.

You'd be surprised.
City boy with a few quid wanting to look like an "extreme" rider = silly lights.

switchback18

I just think don't give the powers that be any excuse for MORE regulations. I mean, some stuff might be annoying, but how often does it happen? Stuff like this doesn't wind me up, but the government seem to love telling us how we need to be safe. I'd prefer to let a few be idiots as the cost for being allowed to use my own common sense. Like the dreaded helmet issue. I wear one off road but never on road. I can explain my reasoning if anyone's interested, but basically I don't want to be told what to do all the time.

Tailend Charlie

you can't be too fit, you can't be too rich and you can't have too much light. the idea of trying to restrict lights on a bike is insane, bizarre and perverse. obviously they should be used with some discretion, but limited????? :?:

Gilbie

Interesting thread. I feel conscious when my front is on flash, road signs that are several hundred yards ahead seem to reflect quite dramatically. Usually feel more comfortable with the beam dipped. If a car comes towards me on full beam and front fogs on then I will switch on to max and they usually dip back down. A powerful light is a life saver on dark country lanes, cars will normally see your light as they approach a bend and slow down. My vote is lots of light but use it wisely.

DonDaddyD

Thing is, the ambient street lights in London at night often cause an orange hue in the sky. When I'm walking around at night, even on side roads, its very rare that I think damn I need some lights to see in front of me. What I do acknowledge is that my very dark clothes don't make me visible.

Yes, you do need to be visible and you do need to see in front of you and lights offer the greatest amount of visibility. Yet I honestly believe that we can loose ourselves within that notion and buy excessive and obscene items to make ourselves more visible. Sure there is mostly no harm in this but the attitude of 'more light', 'more visibility' opens ourselves to acutally becoming less visible (if your lights are too bright and I'm dazzled, how the hell am I supposed to see you?) and ultimately a hazard.

Moderation and rational thinking is needed.

I also think the clear car lights and xenon bulbs are ridiculous as they have a dazzling effect.

m0scs

I agree with others, cant have too much light down unlit backroads and hence the reason why I bought a very good LED light last year.

Fortunately it has variable settings so you can tailor the output to suit the road conditions and ambient light.

Mine is set to:
1 Watt Vey Low power pretty much useless
10 watts, Dipped beam, ok around town
16 watts, Day light. Pitch Black backroads

Frequently, when Im in the lanes approaching cars pull off the road and let me pass, presumably because they think I'm a motorbike

vorsprung

The most annoying bike light problem is coming up behind someone with a flashing rear light

Smart super flash are the worst at the moment

schlepcycling

cee wrote:

lights that are too bright can be annoying. I dont think it is a problem for off-road lights particularly, take the ayup roadie set.....

The angle that they are set at can as said by other be really poor.

That's not the fault of the lights though. I have a set of the AyUp lights and the angle they are at is not set as you state but can be set by the user. Both lights can be rotated individually and I most definitely have mine pointed at the road. So if you're having a problem with someone with these lights then it's the person that set them up that's at fault, blaming the lights is unfair

singlespeedexplosif

as above - brightness isn't an issue. Angle is. And whilst we're at it, can we ban flashing lights? Useless for anything other than extending battery life...

Personally I think it makes far more sense to run brighter lights in cities - you need to stand out from all the other lights around. Less important on quiet country roads, it's far easier to see a single light in the dark.

Underscore

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

as above - brightness isn't an issue. Angle is. And whilst we're at it, can we ban flashing lights? Useless for anything other than extending battery life...

Personally I think it makes far more sense to run brighter lights in cities - you need to stand out from all the other lights around. Less important on quiet country roads, it's far easier to see a single light in the dark.

Actually, I disagree. I have run flashing (rear) lights since before they were made legal because they clearly identify me as a bike to drivers. If they are aware that they are approaching a bike whilst still half a mile away, they can hopefully plan their overtake more carefully, which is safer for me. Flashing front lights are probably of somewhat lesser value, but to some extent the same argument applies.

_

gtvlusso

I went out last night to get pizza, in the car (Bear with me here!). basically, it is in Bristol centre, well lit - loads of sodium lights. Some old guy on a knackered Audax bike was coming down the road with the most irritating strobe pattern, like morse code and both his headlights were way brighter then the ones on my car (I have a BMW with those funny halogen lights!). It was so intense, I could not take my eyes off it - the strobe pattern was kinda like 3 beats then pause - looped. It was too much for that environment - maybe great for country lanes in the middle of the night - but not a well lit city. Made my lighting look like childs play too - I felt very inadequate!
It was annoying as I simply could not take my eyes off his lights - almost as irritating as people who drive with their foglights still on when it is not foggy.....

Rich158

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

as above - brightness isn't an issue. Angle is. And whilst we're at it, can we ban flashing lights? Useless for anything other than extending battery life...

Personally I think it makes far more sense to run brighter lights in cities - you need to stand out from all the other lights around. Less important on quiet country roads, it's far easier to see a single light in the dark.

The issue in country lanes is not being seen, but being able to see enough to ride. I've had several instances where my lights have failed to penetrate through pissing rain adequately, leaving me crawling along, painfully aware that if I can't see the side of the road then a car definately won't see me untill too late.

cee

schlepcycling wrote:

cee wrote:

lights that are too bright can be annoying. I dont think it is a problem for off-road lights particularly, take the ayup roadie set.....

The angle that they are set at can as said by other be really poor.

That's not the fault of the lights though. I have a set of the AyUp lights and the angle they are at is not set as you state but can be set by the user. Both lights can be rotated individually and I most definitely have mine pointed at the road. So if you're having a problem with someone with these lights then it's the person that set them up that's at fault, blaming the lights is unfair

erm...i don't understand why you are disagreeing with me.....that is exactly what my point was.....doesn't matter whether they are on or off road lights, but if the rider doesn't point them at the road about 6-10 feet in front of them....

I can't think of a light that the rider cannot change the angle of...even the hope ones with the integrated stem have adjustment...

spen666

gtvlusso wrote:

I went out last night to get pizza, in the car (Bear with me here!). .....

Did the Bear not scare the pizza shop staff, or did it stay in the car whilst you went into the shop?


Do bears like pizza? if so what sort does it like?